Post workout shake = Myth?

[BigMatt]

Ive seign several place where people Were experimenting Without a Post workout Shake and Didnt see Any difference at all.

Again they said that its all Business Marketing to make you Buy Carb Powder and Protein powder....

IN FACT they said That People should be Able To Replenish Glycogen inside muscle Without ANY CARBS at all.

So lets say your workout Friday evening at 7:00 PM.

You could then Eat a Protein Meal(like chicken and Some Fats like Olive oil,Nuts and some Vegetables) and you Would Still Be Fine...

You would still Stimulate Muscle Growth and IN FACT without Spiking Insulin You would Still Be Burning FAT and Have HIGH GH After the workout, Because Spiking Insulin with the Carbs Would Shut Down Lypogenis and Bring Down GH.

What do you guys think?

I think it make sense, Lets say we were in Caveman Age, And The Cave Man Had to Lift a Rock Several times or he had to Push something, He would still have Acces To Meat for Proteins and Fatty meat + Nuts and Vegetables...

Im not sure if it make sens...

What do you guys think?

Do you Seem to see More Results With Post workout Shake with Carbs? Or Meal with Carbs?

 

[Chipper Jones78]

Do you have documention on this?

Would like to hear peoples analogy on this.

Chip

 

[Monossi]

Thats why they make 0Carb protein powder mixes right ?........................
IE- Synthetek, TrueProtein & Isopure .............

 

[BigMatt]

I read that Someone will Always Replenish Glycogen Store, EVEN WITHOUT ANY CARBS at one point or another.

So you could have lets say a meal of Protein and Fats 1-2 Hours after your workout and you would still be fine without carbs.

The thing is That After you workout you Got High GH and Lypogenis That Burn Bodyfat... Etc.. But when you consumme Carbs, it stop that process...

1. Replenishing Glycogen Needs to be a Focus of PWO.

I’m not just suggesting that glycogen resynthesis is not important following exercise, I’m flat out saying that for strength training it’s not even a concern! This is because it’s just really easy to get our glycogen levels back up, and timing is generally not an issue.

Although one study showed that following endurance exercise, glycogen levels were replenished more rapidly when carbohydrates were consumed shortly after the exercise (Ivy, 1988), this is really of little concern to most of us. Unless we’re subscribers to Runners World, athletes in competition, or doing 2 a day workouts, why do we care so much about rapid glycogen restoration? After all, we’re mostly concerned with muscle growth, fat loss, and getting stronger.

The most common argument is that the subsequent cellular hydration and swelling will have an anticatabolic effect on muscle. I don’t believe that this is possible because cellular hydration to the extent that we get with creatine supplementation has little effect on muscle protein synthesis or breakdown in healthy men or women (Louis et al., 2003).

Then there’s the suggestion that if we don’t replenish post exercise glycogen right away, we’ll miss a window of opportunity to do so. This is largely hyperbole, exploded from bits and pieces of endurance training studies, and a perfect example of the telephone game effect.

Surprisingly, one study showed that consuming carbohydrates after strength training only increased muscle glycogen by 16% more than when water was consumed (Pascoe et al., 1993)! With this information and the huge amount of carbs that we consume on a daily basis, we should have little doubt that glycogen levels will be maximized within 24 hours of the workout.

Now these may be irrelevant points, because in the effort of keeping our focus where it ought to lie—on maximizing protein synthesis— we’re going to quickly stimulate our glycogen restoration anyway. This is because we consume rapidly absorbed carbohydrates along with our protein and amino acids, which has been shown to enhance muscle protein anabolism (Rasmussen et al., 2000).

In other words, muscle glycogen will be restored whether we make it a priority or not. This way, even those who can’t escape the dogma of having to rapidly restore glycogen get their fix, while at the same time, unknowingly assisting with muscle protein recovery.

 

[Press]

ive read many studies that says whole food is just as good as shakes pwo, but they always included carbs.

 

[Johnny Thrust]

There are some people who use HGH and or GHRP/GHRH PWO as it is quite a beneficial time to do so. Why wouldnt you want the release of insulin that a carb drink will certainly initiate ? Insulin is proven to be anabolic so why not use this PWO "spike" to get this synergy going? I use a carb/creatine drink mix 20 minutes after my GHRP PWO. I take in my protein pre-workout. If you consume 25 grams of protein pre/during-workout wouldnt it still be available to the body after your workout ? I think Mr. Datbtrue has some interesting pieces on this subject matter. I feel that the carbs may actually be more important post workout than protein if the protein is consumed pre or even during workout. Of course none of this really makes a hill of beans if you arent busting your @$$ in the gym.

ABSTRACT CONCLUSION

These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

FULL TEXT CONCLUSION

The stimulation of net muscle protein synthesis when EAC is consumed before exercise is superior to that when EAC is consumed after exercise. The combination of increased amino acid levels at a time when blood flow is increased appears to offer the maximum stimulation of muscle protein synthesis by increasing amino acid delivery to the muscle and thus amino acid availability.

 

[terryd5150]

....IN FACT they said That People should be Able To Replenish Glycogen inside muscle Without ANY CARBS at all.

So lets say your workout Friday evening at 7:00 PM.

You could then Eat a Protein Meal(like chicken and Some Fats like Olive oil,Nuts and some Vegetables) and you Would Still Be Fine...

I'm doing this exact same thing right now and getting the best results I've ever gotten.

 

[The Booger]

Never tried it with or without carbs. Most of the time I just feel like making a shake with whatever protein is lying around.

But I can say a PWO shake or meal helps a ton! When I started that, I suddenly started gaining weight at an accelerated pace versus going home and taking a nap or something.

 

[EasyEJL]

Keep in mind that if you are eating every 3 hours anyhow, you have pretty full blood amino levels. Most of the people who push the PWO shake with 2:1 carbrotein ratio are basing it on a few studies that showed significantly higher protein uptake taken in that ratio with carbs after a FASTED FIRST THING IN THE MORNING WORKOUT. So yes, if your body has gone 12 hours without eating, then forcing a stronger insulin response will have a better protein response pwo. No evidence that anything like this happens if you ate preworkout tho.

 

[terryd5150]

.... I suddenly started gaining weight at an accelerated pace versus going home and taking a nap or something.

Well no shit....LOL.


Post workout is an excellent time to get in nutrients. With certainty, a shake (with anywhere NEAR the proper macro's) would give better results than not consuming anything.

 

[Johnny Thrust]

Carbohydrates are important post workout because of the hormonal changes they cause with insulin. IGF-1 releases when growth hormone and insulin are high. After a workout your insulin will be low, but your growth hormone levels should be high. By having a carb drink post workout, you will spike your insulin and cause the release of IGF-1 as a result. IGF-1 is extremely important in muscle growth. Another reason carbs are important is in controlling cortisol. Cortisol starts producing heavily near the end of a workout and we know cortisol production is blunted by spikes in insulin, which high carb intake causes.
Its not so much about restoring depleted glycogen stores as it is triggering an anabolic response.

 

[jayuk]

Ive seign several place where people Were experimenting Without a Post workout Shake and Didnt see Any difference at all.

Again they said that its all Business Marketing to make you Buy Carb Powder and Protein powder....

IN FACT they said That People should be Able To Replenish Glycogen inside muscle Without ANY CARBS at all.

So lets say your workout Friday evening at 7:00 PM.

You could then Eat a Protein Meal(like chicken and Some Fats like Olive oil,Nuts and some Vegetables) and you Would Still Be Fine...

You would still Stimulate Muscle Growth and IN FACT without Spiking Insulin You would Still Be Burning FAT and Have HIGH GH After the workout, Because Spiking Insulin with the Carbs Would Shut Down Lypogenis and Bring Down GH.

What do you guys think?

I think it make sense, Lets say we were in Caveman Age, And The Cave Man Had to Lift a Rock Several times or he had to Push something, He would still have Acces To Meat for Proteins and Fatty meat + Nuts and Vegetables...

Im not sure if it make sens...

What do you guys think?

Do you Seem to see More Results With Post workout Shake with Carbs? Or Meal with Carbs?

Few things worth noting

- No matter how many Carbs you take - within the first 24-36 hours Glycogen depletion is generaly at the same level.

- Taking high amounts of protein, glutamine or bcaa would allow for glycogen repletion

- Majority of people take far too much PWO in terms of carbohydrates

Unless you train twice per day and 4-5 times per week - youd be hard pressed for anyone to need more than 50-60g Carbs PWO. Just follow the natural meal plan and eat well and it all balances.

 

[The Booger]

Well no shit....LOL.


Post workout is an excellent time to get in nutrients. With certainty, a shake (with anywhere NEAR the proper macro's) would give better results than not consuming anything.

That was back when I was listening to the idiots over at BB.com. I had JUST started caring about my diet as I knew nothing beforehand about it. Just thought shit load of food = shit load of muscle.

Now I know better. May seem obvious to us but really to a lot of people it isn't.

 

[cjjrwe]

Some here do advocate whole foods PWO, and have had good results. I am not as anal about rushing home from the gym and having a PWO shake. I usually work out in the morning anyway, before breakfast so I have a shake and some whole foods as a combined breakfast. If I work out in the afternoon, I may or may not eat a shake, I just as often eat whole foods and I have not noticed any less energy, muscle fullness, or recovery time.

 

[abolish the weak]

I think the whole "20 min window, 80 grams simple sugars , 50 grams protien thing" over exaggerated, definitely. I know plenty of big guys who will go to Outback steakhouse after a workout and it'll be an hr after training b 4 they eat, and they're still big and ripped. also dont really buy into the 1.5-2 grams/lb of bodyweight thing either, but its just my opinion from past experience

 

[MAINEVENT]

Honestly, ive never really seen a noticable difference from doing a post workout shake.

 

[Dezzy]

I usually just try to make sure I have had carbs before I hit the gym, otherwise I get weak. I think this whole having to have fast digesting carbs in the form of a shake is ridiculous...

 

[Johnny Thrust]

I think the whole "20 min window, 80 grams simple sugars , 50 grams protien thing" over exaggerated, definitely. I know plenty of big guys who will go to Outback steakhouse after a workout and it'll be an hr after training b 4 they eat, and they're still big and ripped. also dont really buy into the 1.5-2 grams/lb of bodyweight thing either, but its just my opinion from past experience

Im with you on this line of thinking. The whole protein intake quota may just be as over rated as the idea of needing to replenish glycogen after a workout. Your body is a trule remarkable organism when it comes to repair/rebuilding. Most of us can go for great lengths of time without food before we start to catabolize muscle tissue for energy. As long as your diet is in check and you eat several small meals throughout the day, a 1 hour workout isnt going to put you in a state of trauma causing you to lose muscle tissue. It seems to me if you work out 4 days a week the you are in a state of repair 24/7. Not just PWO.

 

[LT710]

Honestly, I didn't read through the whole thread. There's rumors and truths behind everything you read in bodybuilding mags and websites...lately, the 6+ meals per day seems to be getting alot of play as truth or rumor.

When I'm really "cutting", I'll stick to a straight protein shake after the gym.
I've had a friend say you can eat anything you want after working out (good or bad) because your body will soak it up...kinda makes sense.

Bottom line is: you gotta do what works for you. If you feel you're getting some kind of replenishment with a high carb and moderate protein shake, then go for it.

If you're cuting and you feel like waiting 1/2 hour after working out then having grilled chicken is the way to go, then that's what's for you.

I've said it a million times, and I'll say it a million more: everyone is different, different things are going to work for different people.

 

[morphysique]

ok