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Powerful and eye-opening. reality check

Muay Thai

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Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,524
"Are you so sure that the person who is always crying out to be SAVED has not decided 1000 times already to accept his lot of pointless suffering SIMPLY BECAUSE it is easier than shouldering any true responsibility? Are you enabling a delusion? is it possible that your contempt will be more salutary than your pity? You are associating with people who are bad for you because it is easier. You know it and your friends know it. you are bound by an unwritten contract. One aimed at failure and suffering of the stupidest sort, to sacrifice the future to the present. You don't all talk about it and get together and say "let's take the easy path! and indulge at the moment." You don't mention any of that, but you know what is really going on. Before you help somebody, you should find out why that person is in trouble. Don't assume always that this person is a noble victim of unjust circumstances and exploitation. That is the most unlikely explanation, not the most probable, it's normally never that simple. If you buy the story that everything horrible just happened on its own, with no personal responsibility on the part of the victim you deny that person all agency in the past present, and future. You strip them of all power in this manner. I think your default assumption should be the fact that people don't take the high road because it is too hard. Vice and failure are easy, it's easier not to shoulder a burden, not to think, not to care, and not to do. It's easier to procrastinate and drown tomorrow's goals in today's cheap pleasures. How do we know that your suffering is not a demand from martyrdom for my resources anyway!? Maybe my help can't and won't rectify anything. Maybe the misery is a demand placed on me so that I fail too so that the gap you so painfully feel between us is reduced while you degenerate and sink? How do I know that you would refuse to play such a game? Maybe your misery is the weapon you brandish in your hatred for those who rose upward while you waited and sank. Maybe your misery is your attempt to prove the world's injustice, instead of the evidence of your own sin, your missing of the mark, your conscious refusal to strive and live. Maybe your willingness to suffer in failure is inexhaustible, given what you use that suffering to prove. Maybe it's your revenge on Being. How exactly should I befriend you when you're in such a place? How could I? You are not morally obliged to support a person who is making the world a worse place. If you surround yourself around those who support your upward aim and they will not tolerate your cynicism and inward destructiveness" - jbp
❤️


@OuchThatHurts
 
"Are you so sure that the person who is always crying out to be SAVED has not decided 1000 times already to accept his lot of pointless suffering SIMPLY BECAUSE it is easier than shouldering any true responsibility? Are you enabling a delusion? is it possible that your contempt will be more salutary than your pity? You are associating with people who are bad for you because it is easier. You know it and your friends know it. you are bound by an unwritten contract. One aimed at failure and suffering of the stupidest sort, to sacrifice the future to the present. You don't all talk about it and get together and say "let's take the easy path! and indulge at the moment." You don't mention any of that, but you know what is really going on. Before you help somebody, you should find out why that person is in trouble. Don't assume always that this person is a noble victim of unjust circumstances and exploitation. That is the most unlikely explanation, not the most probable, it's normally never that simple. If you buy the story that everything horrible just happened on its own, with no personal responsibility on the part of the victim you deny that person all agency in the past present, and future. You strip them of all power in this manner. I think your default assumption should be the fact that people don't take the high road because it is too hard. Vice and failure are easy, it's easier not to shoulder a burden, not to think, not to care, and not to do. It's easier to procrastinate and drown tomorrow's goals in today's cheap pleasures. How do we know that your suffering is not a demand from martyrdom for my resources anyway!?
I'll just cover the above portion tonight. I'm exhausted.

You mentioned agency. That is an apt word as an overture to this discussion. It is within our agency to have control over our most basic instincts. Your animal nature. Carnal. Eat, drink, pleasure, excess, depravity. This is the unfortunate duality of man. We are eternally torn between our basest instincts as animals or to subdue those instincts in lieu of that which we know is healthy and selfless. That which helps all those around us. As men, our responsibility is to be the protectors, the leaders, the masters of everything in our world.

I say unfortunate because it is not our fault - as in, we didn't choose what we are as humans. The amygdala is responsible for basest behavior - disgust, hatred, anger, fury. Sociopaths feel these things yet are unable to feel what healthy people do which is the cognitive portion of our mind. This is what you'd call the thinking portion. The part that says don't do this or do that - even those things you physically or mentally don't really want to do. This is the rational, empathic, caring, generous portion of your mind. Sociopaths (now referred to as ASPD) lack that part. They have the disgust but are not able to feel empathy. Not only are they unable to feel empathy, pity, or remorse, they still feel revulsion, disgust, et al.

We often imprison these people or lock them away because it's an obvious danger to others. It's our last resort. Still, they are not choosing to be that way. You wouldn't say, "that schizophrenic is a jerk," or, "that aspergers is a real punk." That would be ridiculous. They're all ill in the sense that their brains don't function in a manner which suits the majority. They are atypical, if you'll forgive me.

Another milder form would be not organic but rather through experiences. Nature vs nurture. An example I'll use is people who hate religion (they call themselves atheists) and people who are religious or spiritual (these people are religious). After all, talking to an invisible god or eating human flesh would appear atypical if you didn't understand what they are doing. Seems atypical to me.

But see, most of the people that hate religion (and the religious), were likely hurt at some point. Maybe in early development. Possibly stopping their development. And the people that are religious found peace in that way of life, and also maybe at an early developmental stage so they hold on to it.

I consider myself scientifically minded. I didn't have those developmental roadblocks. So I use the only tool I have left which is logic. I normally don't like to discuss my beliefs because I don't want to influence those around me. That's their journey. But I also have mine. And it breaks down like this;

There is no known law in the periodic table of elements that states that all the different disparate elements mixed together long enough in exactly the right circumstances they will always form a self-aware being. None. Amazingly, we are sentient beings. Could self aware life have formed by happenstance? An accident? A stray shot of lightning? I don't know. Learning to say, "I simply don't know," is a talent that people need to work on and practice.

But we are self-aware. That means the universe came into existence or was created in a manner that one day it would be able to look upon itself and be aware of it's own existence. How can we know this for a fact? Because we are here. We are part of the universe. We are part of a living planet that is part of the universe which = the universe is alive and sentient through us. Can I say without a doubt that the universe in its vastness doesn't have a collective intelligence? No. I simply don't know. Maybe the universe is filled with living planets that give the universe the consciousness we call "god". Again, I don't know.

So the only logical step I can take or conclusion I can come to as an unencumbered person is that we don't know.

The atheists can exist in their denial and nihilism and that's fine. The religious can exist in their faith and that's fine as well. They can die and go into the darkness of the void or be taken up to the heavens. Either is fine by me. I am agnostic in that I don't know for a fact. On any of it. One exception: It is my HOPE that there is a collective and benign intelligence watching over the universe. But I can't prove it exists. So where does that leave us?

We know for a fact that the whole universe was entangled at the quantum level in the beginning so it's likely that some entanglement still exists. Everything affects everything else because as we are all part of the living universe which, as I previously stated, is a logical conclusion. It's the only conclusion.

It is for this reason that I consider both atheism and religion to be bizarre ritualistic behaviour. You know, eating the flesh of christ or grabbing some Arbys, going to the beach, walking into the sea and leaving it all behind.

Whatever the state, nobody can deny that these "enlightened" atheists and "religious" fanatics have rendered our history an absolute bloodbath of torture, death, martyrdom, and horror.

A wise man once said, "To truly know god is to understand that god is ultimately unknowable." Who said that? I think that it was me. Though I don't make a habit of quoting myself.

I'll get to the second half this weekend. Goodnight.
 
Last edited:
You guys are killing it

Nothing is as simple as it appears to be

Tough love is sometimes the best love
It teaches rather then enabling

Suffering is part of learning and becoming a better you.

Btw I couldn't read both posts completely
Lol
 
duality in itself is something we should escape from. Jung, watts, Lao Tzu, buddha all spoke of this in some form of way or reference. take the middle route

"Every man’s true teacher is his own higher Self, and when the life is brought under the control of reason, this higher Self is released from bondage to appetites and impulses, and becomes priest, sage and illuminator."

- Manly P. Hall

"Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power" Lao Tzu

"In order to become the master, one first has to become the fool" Lao Tzu

My "girlfriend" is for sure BPD and NPD. she dumped me this morning for the 100th time. Is that a sociopath enough? it's difficult

I agree with the Aspergers and schizo part 100%. I have met some really creative and awesome people who are autistic also
Everyone experiences the world through their own unique perception anyway. I grew up Christian and in my late 20s I was using scrying mirrors to summon demons and other witchcraft (Enochian /Solomonic etc). I never gave up on "GOD" and have since returned. but I have studied all faiths, philosophies, theology, occultism, freemasonry, I like the Rosicrucian philosophy their temples are excellent. I've studied many cultures and kingdoms and empires that have risen and fallen, the most prolific kings and conquerors and emperors and the worst as well. From the best qualities in each and all of that, I draft my world experience and general awareness. It's important to be universal, agreeable but also conscientious.

will respond to more asap
 
I'll just cover the above portion tonight. I'm exhausted.

You mentioned agency. That is an apt word as an overture to this discussion. It is within our agency to have control over our most basic instincts. Your animal nature. Carnal. Eat, drink, pleasure, excess, depravity. This is the unfortunate duality of man. We are eternally torn between our basest instincts as animals or to subdue those instincts in lieu of that which we know is healthy and selfless. That which helps all those around us. As men, our responsibility is to be the protectors, the leaders, the masters of everything in our world.

I say unfortunate because it is not our fault - as in, we didn't choose what we are as humans. The amygdala is responsible for basest behavior - disgust, hatred, anger, fury. Sociopaths feel these things yet are unable to feel what healthy people do which is the cognitive portion of our mind. This is what you'd call the thinking portion. The part that says don't do this or do that - even those things you physically or mentally don't really want to do. This is the rational, empathic, caring, generous portion of your mind. Sociopaths (now referred to as ASPD) lack that part. They have the disgust but are not able to feel empathy. Not only are they unable to feel empathy, pity, or remorse, they still feel revulsion, disgust, et al.

We often imprison these people or lock them away because it's an obvious danger to others. It's our last resort. Still, they are not choosing to be that way. You wouldn't say, "that schizophrenic is a jerk," or, "that aspergers is a real punk." That would be ridiculous. They're all ill in the sense that their brains don't function in a manner which suits the majority. They are atypical, if you'll forgive me.

Another milder form would be not organic but rather through experiences. Nature vs nurture. An example I'll use is people who hate religion (they call themselves atheists) and people who are religious or spiritual (these people are religious). After all, talking to an invisible god or eating human flesh would appear atypical if you didn't understand what they are doing. Seems atypical to me.

But see, most of the people that hate religion (and the religious), were likely hurt at some point. Maybe in early development. Possibly stopping their development. And the people that are religious found peace in that way of life, and also maybe at an early developmental stage so they hold on to it.

I consider myself scientifically minded. I didn't have those developmental roadblocks. So I use the only tool I have left which is logic. I normally don't like to discuss my beliefs because I don't want to influence those around me. That's their journey. But I also have mine. And it breaks down like this;

There is no known law in the periodic table of elements that states that all the different disparate elements mixed together long enough in exactly the right circumstances they will always form a self-aware being. None. Amazingly, we are sentient beings. Could self aware life have formed by happenstance? An accident? A stray shot of lightning? I don't know. Learning to say, "I simply don't know," is a talent that people need to work on and practice.

But we are self-aware. That means the universe came into existence or was created in a manner that one day it would be able to look upon itself and be aware of it's own existence. How can we know this for a fact? Because we are here. We are part of the universe. We are part of a living planet that is part of the universe which = the universe is alive and sentient through us. Can I say without a doubt that the universe in its vastness doesn't have a collective intelligence? No. I simply don't know. Maybe the universe is filled with living planets that give the universe the consciousness we call "god". Again, I don't know.

So the only logical step I can take or conclusion I can come to as an unencumbered person is that we don't know.

The atheists can exist in their denial and nihilism and that's fine. The religious can exist in their faith and that's fine as well. They can die and go into the darkness of the void or be taken up to the heavens. Either is fine by me. I am agnostic in that I don't know for a fact. On any of it. One exception: It is my HOPE that there is a collective and benign intelligence watching over the universe. But I can't prove it exists. So where does that leave us?

We know for a fact that the whole universe was entangled at the quantum level in the beginning so it's likely that some entanglement still exists. Everything affects everything else because as we are all part of the living universe which, as I previously stated, is a logical conclusion. It's the only conclusion.

It is for this reason that I consider both atheism and religion to be bizarre ritualistic behaviour. You know, eating the flesh of christ or grabbing some Arbys, going to the beach, walking into the sea and leaving it all behind.

Whatever the state, nobody can deny that these "enlightened" atheists and "religious" fanatics have rendered our history an absolute bloodbath of torture, death, martyrdom, and horror.

A wise man once said, "To truly know god is to understand that god is ultimately unknowable." Who said that? I think that it was me. Though I don't make a habit of quoting myself.

I'll get to the second half this weekend. Goodnight.
We no longer treat ourselves as if we matter…whether this has been caused by the rise in secular nihilism or the economic shifts following the feminist movement, the fact remains that men no longer treat themselves as if they matter…because they feel as if they don’t.

But the truth is you do matter. As cliche as it may seem, you are a vessel of limitless potential with the power to transform the very fabric of reality of forever changing the course of human existence.

But the only way to reach your potential and fulfill your mission on this planet is to treat yourself like you matter…to care for yourself…to prioritize yourself…to be selfish enough to give yourself what you need while realizing that it is only from a place of self love and care that you can love and care for others.

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”

john 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’?

“Jesus Christ knew he was God. So wake up and find out eventually who you really are. In our culture, of course, they’ll say you’re crazy and you’re blasphemous, and they’ll either put you in jail or in a nut house (which is pretty much the same thing). However, if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, ‘My goodness, I’ve just discovered that I’m God,’ they’ll laugh and say, ‘Oh, congratulations, at last, you found out.” alan watts​


belief is the death of intelligence - Robert Anton Wilson (a reference to when I think of religion)

“We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.”​


― Terence McKenna

I side with einstein and baruch de spinoza view on god/pantheism....I also am a rosicrucian

even in the quran it says "To God belong the East and the West; wherever you turn, there is the face of God. [2:115] Wherever you turn, whatever you see, whatever you touch – God's presence is there."

jung said "people often don't find god because they don't look low enough"

manmade construct or not, the natives and pagans were in touch with madre tierra and understood the earth is living "breathing" and must be respected and we must give back some of what we take

I watched a great doc on amazon prime last night called griefwalker, he was harvard masters in theology and masters from Toronto in social behavior

@OuchThatHurts

einstein "god does not play dice with the universe"
 
“Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” einstein


heisenberg "he first sip of a glass of natural science will make you an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass, God awaits you."
 
We no longer treat ourselves as if we matter…whether this has been caused by the rise in secular nihilism or the economic shifts following the feminist movement, the fact remains that men no longer treat themselves as if they matter…because they feel as if they don’t.

But the truth is you do matter. As cliche as it may seem, you are a vessel of limitless potential with the power to transform the very fabric of reality of forever changing the course of human existence.

But the only way to reach your potential and fulfill your mission on this planet is to treat yourself like you matter…to care for yourself…to prioritize yourself…to be selfish enough to give yourself what you need while realizing that it is only from a place of self love and care that you can love and care for others.

“If your life is not what it could be, try telling the truth. If you cling desperately to an ideology, or wallow in nihilism, try telling the truth. If you feel weak and rejected, and desperate, and confused, try telling the truth. In paradise, everyone speaks the truth. That is what makes it paradise. Tell the truth. Or, at least, don’t lie.”

john 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods"’?

“Jesus Christ knew he was God. So wake up and find out eventually who you really are. In our culture, of course, they’ll say you’re crazy and you’re blasphemous, and they’ll either put you in jail or in a nut house (which is pretty much the same thing). However, if you wake up in India and tell your friends and relations, ‘My goodness, I’ve just discovered that I’m God,’ they’ll laugh and say, ‘Oh, congratulations, at last, you found out.” alan watts​


belief is the death of intelligence - Robert Anton Wilson (a reference to when I think of religion)

“We have to create culture, don't watch TV, don't read magazines, don't even listen to NPR. Create your own roadshow. The nexus of space and time where you are now is the most immediate sector of your universe, and if you're worrying about Michael Jackson or Bill Clinton or somebody else, then you are disempowered, you're giving it all away to icons, icons which are maintained by an electronic media so that you want to dress like X or have lips like Y. This is shit-brained, this kind of thinking. That is all cultural diversion, and what is real is you and your friends and your associations, your highs, your orgasms, your hopes, your plans, your fears. And we are told 'no', we're unimportant, we're peripheral. 'Get a degree, get a job, get a this, get a that.' And then you're a player, you don't want to even play in that game. You want to reclaim your mind and get it out of the hands of the cultural engineers who want to turn you into a half-baked moron consuming all this trash that's being manufactured out of the bones of a dying world.”​


― Terence McKenna

I side with einstein and baruch de spinoza view on god/pantheism....I also am a rosicrucian

even in the quran it says "To God belong the East and the West; wherever you turn, there is the face of God. [2:115] Wherever you turn, whatever you see, whatever you touch – God's presence is there."

jung said "people often don't find god because they don't look low enough"

manmade construct or not, the natives and pagans were in touch with madre tierra and understood the earth is living "breathing" and must be respected and we must give back some of what we take

I watched a great doc on amazon prime last night called griefwalker, he was harvard masters in theology and masters from Toronto in social behavior

@OuchThatHurts

einstein "god does not play dice with the universe"
I have to respond to this because it's relevant. I'll respond as I digest this. But in the matter of our most ancient texts, we know that a disembodied voice said to Moses on Mt Sinai which anwsered his question of who shall I say has sent me? The voice responded, "Tell the 'I AM' sent you." Then 3,000 years later, a man came upon the Earth who said, "Amen I tell you that before your father Abraham, I AM." Now they picked up stones to try to kill him but according to similar texts, they eventually did anyway by crucifixion for spreading the highly dangerous message of, "Love one another as I have loved you." That was Y'shua (Jesus as we say here in America).

Nevertheless, whether Mt. Sinai or Judea or right here, right now, I can tell you that "I AM" and that my conscious observation causes probability waves to collapse into matter (particles) just by observing. Existence. Creatio ex Nihilo (creation out of nothing) Does it sound like one might easily consider that we are created "in the image and likeness of god"? A creative thing, a benevolent thing... Sure does to me.

BBL
 
All the universe in its 15 billion years has taught us the reality and undeniable truth of cause and effect. For every effect, there is a cause. The young universe was just a blob of particles that coalesced to form galaxies. That effect caused the effect of galaxies. Galaxies caused stars. Stars caused solar systems. Solar systems caused planets. Planets(s) caused life. Life caused us.

So the inescapable fact is that when we travel back to the first "cause", nothing could have caused it into existence because then that cause would be the first cause. Since there was nothing to cause the first effect, that cause must have always been. With time stretching infinitely into the past. In other words, that cause must've always been. This means that if time goes infinitely back, it must go infinitely forward in a line that stretches infinitely back, to the present, to the infinite future.

The thing that always was, is now, and always will be (eg, "As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be."). There could have been an infinite number of realities ("ages") before us and there will be an infinite number of ages after this universe has collapsed or whether it expands into the cold void of space. Whether it collapses or expands will depend on whether gravity or dark energy wins. We don't have an answer to that. We just don't know.

If I had my way, the scientific minds of physics and cosmology would be divided into teams to study the following things:

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle,
Bell Inequalities,
Quantum Entanglement (what Einstein referred to as "spooky actions at a distance")
and The Nature of Gravity

Cosmology today is so utterly riddled with theories, we may as well call it philosophy.

It's easy to be agnostic at this time in human existence because we've barely scratched the surface. Even Feynman said to his students, "Do not try to figure out how or why this is because nobody knows why this is" The truth is that we simply don't know the mechanisms of any of this. The true nature of the universe is so much stranger than we could have ever imagined. So saying, "I don't know," is not admitting defeat but rather stating the obvious.

Next up, we'll talk about faith and what that means. Not necessarily spiritual faith, but faith in general and how it's part of our everyday world. And after that we can lead up to the most important question: Why? In other words, what is the MEANING of existence?
 

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