• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
ddd
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
Anabolic Hormones Store Banner
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
LandmarkChem Email Banner
Medtech Store Banner
Bruce Labs Store banner
qtropin
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

preserving muscle on a cut advice needed

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
asking for advice on maintaining muscle mass while cutting for a big guy.

a little history:
i'm 5.7 around 230 lbs and 18% body fat mostly in the midsection, i've been working out for more than 12 years and last 7 years been on gear on and off (test,dbol,deca,drol,halo and eq).
i'm a local competitive powerlifter so i never bothered to cut my fat down during all those years and have no experience about cutting except the known calories in vs out with 2 grams of protein per bound.

my usual pre meet cycle for bulking and strength is around
500-750 test cyp
400-600 deca or eq
an oral like dbol 60 or drol up to 150
adex and hcg
then i usually cruise on 200 to 250 test cyp

i tried cutting for 3 weeks on 2800-3000 kcal and 260 gm of protein using 300 mg test prop and winny 50 mg but lost strength and size in the upper back and arms so i cut it short and stepped the calories and test up again as i can't afford to lose strength as i have a local meet in 4 months from now, same thing happened on test and tren and cut it short.

my question: what would u recommend to cut without losing any muscle (in regard to steroids, diet and workout) as i think the advice of just 300 mg of test and winny or masteron would work for a smaller guy or someone who is not past their natural limit yet but not for me ?
and is being flat a part of the equation that will always happen and i just have to go through ?

thanks and sorry if that was too long
 

Attachments

tren_plz

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2014
Messages
1,465
Low and slow. Rip your cals down too fast and ramp up cardio and the muscle will go.

Last 6 weeks do what you need to do.
 

juggy38

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
2,035
300mg tren goes a long way preserving muscle mass. 300/300/300 test tren mast would be nice. Or test/tren/DHB is amazing too
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
Low and slow. Rip your cals down too fast and ramp up cardio and the muscle will go.

Last 6 weeks do what you need to do.
right now i'm maintaining while cruising on 3800 kcal with minimal training ....what would you suggest as a start ?
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
300mg tren goes a long way preserving muscle mass. 300/300/300 test tren mast would be nice. Or test/tren/DHB is amazing too
tried test 300 and tren 300 but with 1000 kcal deficit ,felt small and week so i stopped ...don't know if that's just being flat or am i losing muscle
 

jeroendebleser

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
1,523
Well it's to be expected that you're going to lose muscle mass if you switch from your pre meet/bulking cycle to only 300 mg Test Prop and 50 mg Winstrol so I would try to keep the dosages the same as pre meet. It can be different compounds than pre meet but try to keep the dosages the same at least.
 

thethinker48

Featured Member / Kilo Klub
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 22, 2015
Messages
3,715
You're trying to shoot two targets with one bullet.

If strength is priority, your bodyweight has to stay up there to preserve it. If you want to get leaner, you are bound to lose some strength when dieting (that's not to say it won't come back if you hold the leanness and create a new setpoint)

Using a hard androgen like tren will preserve strength to a degree (CNS turbocharger) but only to a degree

P.S- Being flat is part of dieting. Worst is when you're fat and flat, you look terrible. Then the bodyfat slowly comes off, you add food back, and look infinitely better. Only way to the other side is through the tunnel unfortunately.
 

Elvia1023

Featured Member / Supp Guru / Board Supporter
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Board Supporter
Verified Customer
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
23,615
Many thoughts pop into my head after reading your post. Are you just cutting solely to look better? Do you want to move down a weight class in powerlifting? Why are you cutting 4 months before a meet? Fact is dropping any weight could and most likely will go against your strength but if you can fit into the top of a class then it will be worthwhile. Regardless, you are simply cutting things too drastically. You just want to clean up your diet at first and move down approx 300 cals and not overdo training and/or cardio. Now everyone is different but generally I would keep protein high and you need healthy fats. Now I don't know how your existing diet is but if you are having high carbs I would take the first 300 cals from them and well over time even more. When dieting I usually advise the majority of someone's carbs to be around their training but there are exceptions.

It should be a slow and gradual process and when combined with some test and an androgen such as tren (maybe an oral as well) the chances of you getting weaker are minimized. I would also add in drugs gradually as well. Meaning you don't need loads of things when you just drop 300 cals and you use test and something else (let's say deca for example). So test and deca and standard doses for you then over time as you get closer to the meet you add in tren (let's say 7 weeks out) and then even closer could come some adrol and/or halo. None of this is exact as I would need more details but just a rough idea of the approach I would recommend. Do you have any goals in regards to weight and body fat? If you provide more details we can give you much better advice.
 

IronLion2

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
1,816
Nearly impossible to not fuck up your leverages during a diet. It takes an incredible amount of time to diet that slow while simultaneously remastering the lifts.
 

Biggerp73

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
737
Wait until after your meet to diet and then don't worry much about losing muscle and strength. You will look flat, and weak, etc, but as long as you are training hard, using some AAS, and eating some protein, most will come back

Or, switch up your macros to favor protein more heavily, and add in a few iu's of GH, while keeping calories the same.
 

qbkilla

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
1,859
I'm in the same boat as you just smaller and dont compete.

What are peoples thoughts on tren vs winny vs var for preserving muslce?

Also, to play devil's advocate, a faster more aggressive cut will lead to less total weeks cutting and less total weeks of muscle loss, albeit at a faster rate each week.

Anyone a fan of just going hard for 4 weeks, vs slow and steady for say 12? Less time for the adaptations of dieting (all negative) to really kick in.

My last diet was too slow and too long and by the end I was tiny and fatigued, could barely walk. This time I am going a bit faster, I went from 4700 cal down to 2800, as opposed to 2000 which I would consider super aggressive. 210lbs to start
 

yomstf

Active member
Registered
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Messages
120
I'm in the same boat as you just smaller and dont compete.

What are peoples thoughts on tren vs winny vs var for preserving muslce?

Also, to play devil's advocate, a faster more aggressive cut will lead to less total weeks cutting and less total weeks of muscle loss, albeit at a faster rate each week.

Anyone a fan of just going hard for 4 weeks, vs slow and steady for say 12? Less time for the adaptations of dieting (all negative) to really kick in.

My last diet was too slow and too long and by the end I was tiny and fatigued, could barely walk. This time I am going a bit faster, I went from 4700 cal down to 2800, as opposed to 2000 which I would consider super aggressive. 210lbs to start
IMO Slow and steady is by far safer. It's difficult to lose muscle with a small deficit and training hard... If you cut half of you calories is going to be easier to lose mucle and also your training is going to suffer a lot. Keep in mind that training and calories are main factors to put and preserve muscle... There is a reason why bodybuilders prep for 16-12 weeks instead of 8-6.

On the other hand being hungry and weaker for several weeks isn't fun so trying to do it in a few weeks sounds apealing (shortcut always does).
 

TheOtherOne55

Sponsor Rep
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
3,081
You're just gonna have to choose one:
1. Keep strength
or
2. Keep muscle

No matter what, you'll lose a little bit of both...but you CAN preserve a lot of it.
I used to PL too and the problem I see with most PLers is that they start freakin out once their leverages change and their bench drops 30lbs. They end up saying fuck it and quit the diet.

Also, why did you happen to choose 2800-3k cals as the start of your diet. What was your maintenance to hold onto your 230? Realistically, you don't just CHOOSE a number and jump to it. You take your maintenance and take i dunno 300 cals off of it. THIS will help keep muscle and strength.
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
Many thoughts pop into my head after reading your post. Are you just cutting solely to look better? Do you want to move down a weight class in powerlifting? Why are you cutting 4 months before a meet? Fact is dropping any weight could and most likely will go against your strength but if you can fit into the top of a class then it will be worthwhile. Regardless, you are simply cutting things too drastically. You just want to clean up your diet at first and move down approx 300 cals and not overdo training and/or cardio. Now everyone is different but generally I would keep protein high and you need healthy fats. Now I don't know how your existing diet is but if you are having high carbs I would take the first 300 cals from them and well over time even more. When dieting I usually advise the majority of someone's carbs to be around their training but there are exceptions.

It should be a slow and gradual process and when combined with some test and an androgen such as tren (maybe an oral as well) the chances of you getting weaker are minimized. I would also add in drugs gradually as well. Meaning you don't need loads of things when you just drop 300 cals and you use test and something else (let's say deca for example). So test and deca and standard doses for you then over time as you get closer to the meet you add in tren (let's say 7 weeks out) and then even closer could come some adrol and/or halo. None of this is exact as I would need more details but just a rough idea of the approach I would recommend. Do you have any goals in regards to weight and body fat? If you provide more details we can give you much better advice.
i didn't exactly want to move down a weight class at first but when i realized i got fat lately ,i decided okay why not hit two birds with one stone ...if i could lose 7 to 8% body fat and look good (by a powerlifter standards ,no need to go single digit) and at the same time fit at the top of a lower weight class with the same or little less strength then that would be perfect.
so l guess my goal would be to hit 210 lbs at 10% or less.

when i tried test /tren at 2800 kcal and added 20 min morning cardio ,i dropped weight at around 4 lbs per week but some of it was muscles as i lost inches from everywhere even arms and i don't have alot of fat there with loss of vascularity and strength despite higher than normal protein intake.

thanks in advance
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
Wait until after your meet to diet and then don't worry much about losing muscle and strength. You will look flat, and weak, etc, but as long as you are training hard, using some AAS, and eating some protein, most will come back

Or, switch up your macros to favor protein more heavily, and add in a few iu's of GH, while keeping calories the same.
does that mean i will lose real muscle tissues when cutting no matter what i do ? not addressing glycogen here
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
I'm in the same boat as you just smaller and dont compete.

What are peoples thoughts on tren vs winny vs var for preserving muslce?

Also, to play devil's advocate, a faster more aggressive cut will lead to less total weeks cutting and less total weeks of muscle loss, albeit at a faster rate each week.

Anyone a fan of just going hard for 4 weeks, vs slow and steady for say 12? Less time for the adaptations of dieting (all negative) to really kick in.

My last diet was too slow and too long and by the end I was tiny and fatigued, could barely walk. This time I am going a bit faster, I went from 4700 cal down to 2800, as opposed to 2000 which I would consider super aggressive. 210lbs to start
how much strength and size did you lose by transitioning that fast ? and do you keep on losing muscle or does it just happen during the 1st couple weeks cuz your body is shocked by the sudden deficit ?

i used to go hard and even intermittent fasting on one meal a day and not lose any muscles at all but that was when i was 170 lbs and only on 400 test enanthate weekly.
 

shaker88

Member
Newbies
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
34
You're just gonna have to choose one:
1. Keep strength
or
2. Keep muscle

No matter what, you'll lose a little bit of both...but you CAN preserve a lot of it.
I used to PL too and the problem I see with most PLers is that they start freakin out once their leverages change and their bench drops 30lbs. They end up saying fuck it and quit the diet.

Also, why did you happen to choose 2800-3k cals as the start of your diet. What was your maintenance to hold onto your 230? Realistically, you don't just CHOOSE a number and jump to it. You take your maintenance and take i dunno 300 cals off of it. THIS will help keep muscle and strength.
if i chose to keep muscle size what would be the difference than keeping strength ? don't they go hand in hand ?

i calculated my TDEE and found my maintenance to be around 3200 to 3500 according to different formulas but i was holding at around 3800 kcal more or less ,so i subtracted 500 kcal from the 3200 i got from the formula but i lost weight fast at around 4 lbs a week.
 

Forum statistics

Total page views
501,863,688
Threads
123,348
Messages
2,347,748
Members
155,056
Latest member
Pearce93
Top