Primo in TRT ceiling

[buck]

How long did you run the primo on top of your TRT?

3 months

 

[Koonta Jones]

Man! I learned quit a bit from this thread. Thinking of trying 1-1 ratio test cyp and primo e at 200mg a week. Pin-mon-wed-friday to keep levels staple. What do you guys think? 53year old been working out for 30+ Labs are perfect. This will be my 2nd run. Did first 200mg week test cyp only for 12week Jan-March 2021. Just used nolvadex 10days after last inj.

 

[LATS]

Ok.. most people here know I'm a primo junkie.. love the stuff.. never had negative reactions only felt great.. my big go too was 200 test and 600 primo..
That being said I started having joint issues with primo and mast being too much higher than the test.. it was just mild at first but over the last couple months I've noticed it more and more.. im sure if I tested my e2 there would be a issue..
Now I always believed that the amount of a compound doesn't matter.. its the total anabolic content in the cycle.. but when adding gear we must add to the cycle based on what a compound brings to the table.. all steriods have a positive effect on protein synthesis.. matter of fact most are about equal in that regard according to numerous studies.. its their effects after that matter..
If we are on 600 mgs of test already and our gains are stalled.. you coukd add more test yes.. but then you run into more estro..dht.. and other issues which might require other compounds to battle.. or.. you can add a more anabolic based compound that does not add to the estro conversion and actually modulates estro and its side effects.. like primo or masteron.. ( now all compounds modulate and act as a bit of a aromatase inhibitor but some are better than others) .. so just adding 200mgs of primo to your test will add to the total anabolic content of the cycle and hopefully get gains moving again without adding to the estro content.. and maybe even controlling it a bit.. its about total content of the cycle not a arbitrary number than magically makes the compound more effective.. if test is low then yes we need more primo to add to the anabolic nature of the cycle.. but if test is high the less we need of other compounds to elicit a effect.. but choose wisely.. we don't want to crush e2 but have a good working ratio of test to estro.. choose one that adds to the anabolic content of the cycle without adding a ton more androgenic issues and sides.. hope that makes sense..

 

[bigstick]

Nope, never tried Trest.
TRT has sorted out a # of my "issues".
It's what nature intended to be the predominant male hormone in my body.
Unfortunately after 30+ years of PED use my HPTA is FUBAR.
Physically and psychologically I'm in a good place with plain ol' Test & GH.

Yes sir. 100%

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Update here on recent test results:

After primo initially crushed my estrogen I made some adjustments. Bumped testosterone to 87.5mg weekly and dropped primo to 70mg weekly to bring Estrogen levels back up.

Current:

Test 87.5mg/week
Primo E - 70mg / week
HCG - 200iu / day
HMG - 75iu twice weekly


Total Testosterone went from 608 --> 685
Total Estrogen 16 ---> 90 pg/mL
E2 (Ultrasensitive) LC-MS ----> 29


Resulted in fertility after 15 years on TRT and a successful pregnancy.

 

[xpoc]

Ok.. most people here know I'm a primo junkie.. love the stuff.. never had negative reactions only felt great.. my big go too was 200 test and 600 primo..
That being said I started having joint issues with primo and mast being too much higher than the test.. it was just mild at first but over the last couple months I've noticed it more and more.. im sure if I tested my e2 there would be a issue..
Now I always believed that the amount of a compound doesn't matter.. its the total anabolic content in the cycle.. but when adding gear we must add to the cycle based on what a compound brings to the table.. all steriods have a positive effect on protein synthesis.. matter of fact most are about equal in that regard according to numerous studies.. its their effects after that matter..
If we are on 600 mgs of test already and our gains are stalled.. you coukd add more test yes.. but then you run into more estro..dht.. and other issues which might require other compounds to battle.. or.. you can add a more anabolic based compound that does not add to the estro conversion and actually modulates estro and its side effects.. like primo or masteron.. ( now all compounds modulate and act as a bit of a aromatase inhibitor but some are better than others) .. so just adding 200mgs of primo to your test will add to the total anabolic content of the cycle and hopefully get gains moving again without adding to the estro content.. and maybe even controlling it a bit.. its about total content of the cycle not a arbitrary number than magically makes the compound more effective.. if test is low then yes we need more primo to add to the anabolic nature of the cycle.. but if test is high the less we need of other compounds to elicit a effect.. but choose wisely.. we don't want to crush e2 but have a good working ratio of test to estro.. choose one that adds to the anabolic content of the cycle without adding a ton more androgenic issues and sides.. hope that makes sense..

Lats,

I have only been a TRT guy for a decade. 200 mg per week. A couple months ago, I went to the "darkside" and added Primo. I started with 200 per week, built up to 400 per week and then did blood work. It absolutely TANKED my HDL (60 to 28). And erased any evidence of estrogen (35 to less than 5...undetectable is what the test said). Joint paint was very bad. Gains were minimal but noticable. So I finished my 10 week cycle and am back on my 200 mg per week TRT.

I do like the idea of TRT PLUS (adding a little something for 1-2 cycles per year). If I just stick with test and double the dose to say, 400 per week, can I expect similar "gains" to the primo minus the HDL and Estro getting tanked? Obviously, you cannot predict exactly how my body will react, so this would be a "generally speaking" based on your experience type response I would be hoping for.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Lats,

I have only been a TRT guy for a decade. 200 mg per week. A couple months ago, I went to the "darkside" and added Primo. I started with 200 per week, built up to 400 per week and then did blood work. It absolutely TANKED my HDL (60 to 28). And erased any evidence of estrogen (35 to less than 5...undetectable is what the test said). Joint paint was very bad. Gains were minimal but noticable. So I finished my 10 week cycle and am back on my 200 mg per week TRT.

I do like the idea of TRT PLUS (adding a little something for 1-2 cycles per year). If I just stick with test and double the dose to say, 400 per week, can I expect similar "gains" to the primo minus the HDL and Estro getting tanked? Obviously, you cannot predict exactly how my body will react, so this would be a "generally speaking" based on your experience type response I would be hoping for.

I did something similar a few months ago. The trick is not running primo too high (Keep at a 1:1 ratio or lower*test higher than primo*) and crushing your estrogen, once estrogen gets tanked your lipids like HDL will take a huge hit too. Now that I got my E2 levels back up my HDL came back up significantly as well into a healthy range.

 

[MouthBreather1982]

I tried to add high dose primo like 600 to high test and it killed my self drive. I was thinking it watered down the the libido part of my test but it makes sense that I’m a high estro kind of guy.

 

[MouthBreather1982]

So I guess the question is if I was running 750 of test how much primo could I run and see didn’t bit significant rather than running more test.

 

[LATS]

Lats,

I have only been a TRT guy for a decade. 200 mg per week. A couple months ago, I went to the "darkside" and added Primo. I started with 200 per week, built up to 400 per week and then did blood work. It absolutely TANKED my HDL (60 to 28). And erased any evidence of estrogen (35 to less than 5...undetectable is what the test said). Joint paint was very bad. Gains were minimal but noticable. So I finished my 10 week cycle and am back on my 200 mg per week TRT.

I do like the idea of TRT PLUS (adding a little something for 1-2 cycles per year). If I just stick with test and double the dose to say, 400 per week, can I expect similar "gains" to the primo minus the HDL and Estro getting tanked? Obviously, you cannot predict exactly how my body will react, so this would be a "generally speaking" based on your experience type response I would be hoping for.

Sorry.. I didnt see this.. to answer you question yes you could bump test up a bit.. just try and manage the estro issues that may arise.. if you use a aromatase inhibitor then use the bare minimum..

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Sorry.. I didnt see this.. to answer you question yes you could bump test up a bit.. just try and manage the estro issues that may arise.. if you use a aromatase inhibitor then use the bare minimum..

It would be real simple to dial in. There’s a $40 blood test for estradiol lc/ms

Primo is easy, just start at 2:1 ratio and drop test/raise primo if estrogen is too high. Now try to dial in estro on MENT, there’s no damn blood test for the estrogen it creates. What a pain in the ass drug

 

[Brock456]

Trying some from you guys next, doing it at closer to that 1.5:1 ratio this time. Already feeling better as estrogen has started recovering, but will confirm with bloodwork next month.

How did it go?

 

[bodybuilder8806]

How did it go?

Test 87.5mg/week
Primo E - 70mg / week
HCG - 200iu / day
HMG - 75iu twice weekly


Total Testosterone went from 608 --> 685
Total Estrogen 16 ---> 90 pg/mL
E2 (Ultrasensitive) LC-MS ----> 29

It went well, after I adjusted the Testosterone up a bit. My total estrogen went from 16 ---> 90pg/mL after adding in a bit more test and reducing the primo dose, I didn't have E2 done on the first test, but it was crashed as well with Total estrogen being 16, it was probably around 5-6.

I felt a lot better at this range, but still felt like my E2 was a little low for me personally as I usually tend to be on the upper end of the range, so I am using a 2 : 1 ratio with twice as much Test now and I'm feeling much better. Haven't checked my E2 yet at 2 : 1 ratio, but from how I feel symptom wise it's working much better. I'll most likely be staying at this ratio going forward, unless running larger doses of Test dictate otherwise.

 

[Brock456]

It went well, after I adjusted the Testosterone up a bit. My total estrogen went from 16 ---> 90pg/mL after adding in a bit more test and reducing the primo dose, I didn't have E2 done on the first test, but it was crashed as well with Total estrogen being 16, it was probably around 5-6.

I felt a lot better at this range, but still felt like my E2 was a little low for me personally as I usually tend to be on the upper end of the range, so I am using a 2 : 1 ratio with twice as much Test now and I'm feeling much better. Haven't checked my E2 yet at 2 : 1 ratio, but from how I feel symptom wise it's working much better. I'll most likely be staying at this ratio going forward, unless running larger doses of Test dictate otherwise.

What was dosage first time? And what is it now?

 

[bodybuilder8806]

What was dosage first time? And what is it now?

First was around 170mg Primo with 70mg Test 200iu HCG daily. Next was 87.5mg Test with 70mg Primo 200iu HCG daily.

Currently, bumped to 125 primo and 195 Test with 100iu HCG daily which would equate to in the ballpark of 200 Test 100 Primo without the HCG for me.

 

[Brock456]

First was around 170mg Primo with 70mg Test 200iu HCG daily. Next was 87.5mg Test with 70mg Primo 200iu HCG daily.

Currently, bumped to 125 primo and 195 Test with 100iu HCG daily which would equate to in the ballpark of 200 Test 100 Primo without the HCG for me.

I’m starting at about 200 Test and 100 Primo a week with the HCG 500iu 2x a week.

im hoping to avoid the low estrogen and achy joints

 

[bodybuilder8806]

I’m starting at about 200 Test and 100 Primo a week with the HCG 500iu 2x a week.

im hoping to avoid the low estrogen and achy joints

That's pretty close to what I'm doing at the moment, everyone is different but you should be fine at that ratio.

 

[xpoc]

Ive debated adding Primo 100mg to TRT 200mg Test per week as Primo seems the least likely to negatively impact bloods especially at such a low dosage. Just for an extra boost. Im sure it wouldn’t be much especially if 400mg primo did nothing for you.

correct. the primo tanked important health markers such as HDL and ESTRO (and increased joint pain), while delivering a ho-hum benefit of maybe a couple pounds of muscle. and then when i stopped, i also lost the weight i had gained. i have not done labs since, but i am hoping my numbers went back to normal.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

correct. the primo tanked important health markers such as HDL and ESTRO (and increased joint pain), while delivering a ho-hum benefit of maybe a couple pounds of muscle. and then when i stopped, i also lost the weight i had gained. i have not done labs since, but i am hoping my numbers went back to normal.

First your estrogen crashes then your HDL crashes because of low/no estrogen. Sucks and I’ve been there but it will bounce back probably but it will just take time and no orals, no synthetic AAS. Just test and GH and insulin is the best bet for you. I got my HDL back to the 40s from the upper 20 following those rules but I did add ment in also so maybe I could have done better without that.

 

[xpoc]

First your estrogen crashes then your HDL crashes because of low/no estrogen. Sucks and I’ve been there but it will bounce back probably but it will just take time and no orals, no synthetic AAS. Just test and GH and insulin is the best bet for you. I got my HDL back to the 40s from the upper 20 following those rules but I did add ment in also so maybe I could have done better without that.

Hey man, I always read your posts as you have good advice. When it comes to training, I have 35 years of experience. When it comes to pharma, I am a newb (other than TRT and I am really dialed in with that). So when you post something, I read it. Here is what I am considering: once (or twice) per year doubling up my test dose for 10 weeks. Instead of 200 mg per week I would go with 400 mg per week. If I were to do this what are your anecdotal thoughts on: HDL, Estro (I have access to anastrozle if needed) and body comp improvements? Simply asking in YOUR OPINION, is this a reasonable plan for a guy in his early 50's who wants to still look look good and train hard with minimal negative impact on overall health.