Primo: science/broscience thread... assessment of strengths/weaknesses

[pickapeck]

@Type-IIx

Methenolone (Primobolan) and its 3α-reduction

peterbond.org

Agree or disagree? Any comments on Peters statements?

I just scanned through 1/2 of it so I might have missed points. I didn't see any definitive inference to data that really demonstrated strong conversion to a 3 hydroxy form. On the contrary, two of the most reasonable 3 hydroxy metabolites were almost non-existent. That 95% of primo was maybe not accounted for might indicates that the study was not designed to detect all of the compound or where it ended up. Also not descibed is the time length of the accounting. Such experiments would involve radiolabeled methenolone. The author describes such experiments for DHT and T but not methenolone. Interestingly, I do better when using both EQ and Primo at the same time with a test base and that works better than either one alone at equal total mg. Maybe C3 reduction is shifted when the two substrates are present. IDK. More research needed.

 

[BLang]

I just scanned through 1/2 of it so I might have missed points. I didn't see any definitive inference to data that really demonstrated strong conversion to a 3 hydroxy form. On the contrary, two of the most reasonable 3 hydroxy metabolites were almost non-existent. That 95% of primo was maybe not accounted for might indicates that the study was not designed to detect all of the compound or where it ended up. Also not descibed is the time length of the accounting. Such experiments would involve radiolabeled methenolone. The author describes such experiments for DHT and T but not methenolone. Interestingly, I do better when using both EQ and Primo at the same time with a test base and that works better than either one alone at equal total mg. Maybe C3 reduction is shifted when the two substrates are present. IDK. More research needed.

I read that and listened to his debate with Victor Black.

He makes an interesting case, at the same time it feels like he just came up with a possible mechanistic reason for the "Primo is weak" attitude that bodybuilders generally have, and is super anchored to it.

 

[pickapeck]

I read that and listened to his debate with Victor Black.

He makes an interesting case, at the same time it feels like he just came up with a possible mechanistic reason for the "Primo is weak" attitude that bodybuilders generally have, and is super anchored to it.

I might be bias because I like primo. Very good safety profile and blunts off estrogen in a way that is easier to control than AI. I really have no use for strong anabolics at my stage so it fits the bill for me. A vial will be enoough for 10 weeks just for anti estrogen effects, verified and dialed in with blood work, plus it is anabolic. Arimidex would be about the same or a little more.

 

[BLang]

BTW, I just re-read the original study that @Type-IIx posted.

Do we have any explanation for why Nandrolone Hex seemed to have outperformed Deca significantly as well? It looks like it says it's 60mg Anadur vs 50mg Deca (which I'm guessing accounts for ester weight differences), but that's a pretty compelling difference in result, no?

 

[pistonpump]

Following. On my first primo run at 400mg a week with 500 test and 50 dbol.

Since I started the primo I've noticed a slight drop in libido but no problems functioning.

I do feel the primo and the dbol are working together well. Dbol adding estrogen and primo bringing the estrogen down. I still take arimidex just because I don't want any gyno and keeping e on the low end feels safer for me.

Noticing itching head also and waking up earlier then usual.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I ran various anabolic steroids solo to see how my body responded.

Deca only: 400mg weekly. I looked and felt incredible!

Primobolan only (pharma amps):50mg primobolan enanthate daily. I looked softer, got weaker, lost muscle. Weak-ass steroid!!! And expensive!!!

Tren Ace only: 100-200mg daily! absolutely insane gains!!! Massive rage! Very strong and full!!!

Inject Dbol only: 25mg daily. Looked very full! Felt amazing!

Testosterone only: high dose! 2 grams a week. Felt very tired, looked bloated, felt like shit! Lots of backne! Grew fast!

Anadrol only: 100mg daily. OMG!!! Scared the crap out of me because I got so big and strong so fast it didn’t seem right.

 

[LK3]

Well if primo is less potent (-75%) than Nandrolone in building skeletal muscle, bah i don't know if it's a good choice....

I am starting thinking that Primo/EQ are just good to lower e2 levels and that's it.... And in the end i prefer to take an AI than inject a boatload of useless oil....

you cant really compare primo and nan.
for size nan blows primo away, zero comparison.

 

[LK3]

Following. On my first primo run at 400mg a week with 500 test and 50 dbol.

Since I started the primo I've noticed a slight drop in libido but no problems functioning.

I do feel the primo and the dbol are working together well. Dbol adding estrogen and primo bringing the estrogen down. I still take arimidex just because I don't want any gyno and keeping e on the low end feels safer for me.

Noticing itching head also and waking up earlier then usual.

i have never liked dbol at all, havent touched it in 20 years either. lol
drol on the other hand is miracle grow.
drol and wini with test or drol and eq with test will have you bigger at much better price then primo for sure.

i like primo a lot but its a has its place sorta thing. also with the amt of test and db there prob you would like it (primo) a lot more at double the dose.

 

[jaxino]

i have never liked dbol at all, havent touched it in 20 years either. lol
drol on the other hand is miracle grow.
drol and wini with test or drol and eq with test will have you bigger at much better price then primo for sure.

i like primo a lot but its a has its place sorta thing. also with the amt of test and db there prob you would like it (primo) a lot more at double the dose.

Anadrol Winstrol is my favorite combo ever.

I have to try Anadrol+EQ to see if it will grow me better than Npp+EQ.

 

[juggy38]

I might be bias because I like primo. Very good safety profile and blunts off estrogen in a way that is easier to control than AI. I really have no use for strong anabolics at my stage so it fits the bill for me. A vial will be enoough for 10 weeks just for anti estrogen effects, verified and dialed in with blood work, plus it is anabolic. Arimidex would be about the same or a little more.

I enjoy primo also, its like salt, goes with everything. The only thing i have issue with is Victors Hard stance on Mast and primo building contractile tissue just as well as tren/nandrolone.

That just isn’t the case. As nobody would ever fuck with 19-nors. 19-not family just changes the body more so than EQ.

But yea you can get big with EQ/primo/mast, but we don’t have infinite time, money, muscles to pin.

And I wonder, like let’s make a hypothetical word “AAS stress”. All the stress cumulative across the whole body from the drugs.

Would 500 test/400primo/400EQ be less stress than 500 test/300 tren? I’m just thinking aloud this morning…..

Because for me both of those would probably be equivalent in what I could do in 12 weeks with my body

 

[Mufasa123]

Anadrol Winstrol is my favorite combo ever.

I have to try Anadrol+EQ to see if it will grow me better than Npp+EQ.

Never tried drol and winny. Might have to do that this winter. Winny/var is pretty solid at split doses 25/25 vs 50 of either. Drol, winny and var are the only orals I use anyway. Thinking I'm going to do this drol/win thing. Good inspiration

 

[pickapeck]

I enjoy primo also, its like salt, goes with everything. The only thing i have issue with is Victors Hard stance on Mast and primo building contractile tissue just as well as tren/nandrolone.

That just isn’t the case. As nobody would ever fuck with 19-nors. 19-not family just changes the body more so than EQ.

But yea you can get big with EQ/primo/mast, but we don’t have infinite time, money, muscles to pin.

And I wonder, like let’s make a hypothetical word “AAS stress”. All the stress cumulative across the whole body from the drugs.

Would 500 test/400primo/400EQ be less stress than 500 test/300 tren? I’m just thinking aloud this morning…..

Because for me both of those would probably be equivalent in what I could do in 12 weeks with my body

I don't know. Probably an individual thing. Niot this past year but prior I did 300/300/300 and blew up hard and lean. By the end I was lethargic mostly I think because my Hct went up to high fifties. 500 test and 300 tren would have me a mess by week 3. Some guys can handle a lot of tren and some can't. It does work like gang busters but, for me, I would have to dial it back to no more than 50 mg EOD. It would work like crazy though and I would probably be picking fights or biting my lip a lot.

 

[Mufasa123]

Would 500 test/400primo/400EQ be less stress than 500 test/300 tren? I’m just thinking aloud this morning…..

Because for me both of those would probably be equivalent in what I could do in 12 weeks with my body

Honestly 200mg of Tren beats 600mg of primo convincingly for me (300-350 beats the everloving snot out of it looking at effectiveness and not factoring individual "side-effectiveness".

I like primo as a cutting drug or a 3rd on top of two other compounds for aesthetics, E2, water, and just to lower the dosages of the other drivers a bit. Salt was a good analogy.

If I was to "keep it simple" 1 gram of test, 1 gram of primo, and GH would be workable too. Might do that at some point.

 

[juggy38]

I don't know. Probably an individual thing. Niot this past year but prior I did 300/300/300 and blew up hard and lean. By the end I was lethargic mostly I think because my Hct went up to high fifties. 500 test and 300 tren would have me a mess by week 3. Some guys can handle a lot of tren and some can't. It does work like gang busters but, for me, I would have to dial it back to no more than 50 mg EOD. It would work like crazy though and I would probably be picking fights or biting my lip a lot.

Tren makes me emotionally numb, almost sociopathic. Oh your whole family got murdered? Damn….I have to plan a funeral.

It’s not good. About 250-300mg is pushing my tren envelope

 

[jaxino]

Never tried drol and winny. Might have to do that this winter. Winny/var is pretty solid at split doses 25/25 vs 50 of either. Drol, winny and var are the only orals I use anyway. Thinking I'm going to do this drol/win thing. Good inspiration

Mate one of the cycles i loved the most was:
Test Tren Anadrol W

Was strong as an ox and looked great, but my body has no big issues with orals, except lipids (ofc).

What i noticed ON MYSELF is that i need something to fix my anemia (Anadrol) and every cycle is a win win. EQ doesn't touch my hemoglobin/RBC.




Anyways back on topic Primo in the end doesn't seem so promising

 

[LK3]

Never tried drol and winny. Might have to do that this winter. Winny/var is pretty solid at split doses 25/25 vs 50 of either. Drol, winny and var are the only orals I use anyway. Thinking I'm going to do this drol/win thing. Good inspiration

its magic bro! lol
run the drol for a while then add in wini after a month or two on the drol.
i always like test, eq, drol then finish with wini on top.