Prolotherapy / Platelet Rich Plasma Injections

[phatrr]

Long story short: I'm checking out options for dealing with severe tendonosis, tearing, and trauma of the rotator cuff complex.

There's a couple promising therapies out there: prolotheraphy involves the injection of a dextrose solution into the tendon to stimulate an inflammatory response and encourage tissue growth.

PRP is a similar physical procedure, but using plasma, the idea is again to encourage the tendon to grow and heal rather than degenerate.

Anybody have any first-hand experience with either of these?

 

[phatkid77]

no first hand, but have read about it...there was an ariticle in a paper up here...i guess the IOC ?? IS looking at allowing this for TREATMENT under medical exemption,

i guess it increases blood flow that quickly decreases heal time

phats

 

[Massive G]

Long story short: I'm checking out options for dealing with severe tendonosis, tearing, and trauma of the rotator cuff complex.

There's a couple promising therapies out there: prolotheraphy involves the injection of a dextrose solution into the tendon to stimulate an inflammatory response and encourage tissue growth.

PRP is a similar physical procedure, but using plasma, the idea is again to encourage the tendon to grow and heal rather than degenerate.

Anybody have any first-hand experience with either of these?

PRP is very good I know tons of people that rave about it both lifters and non for both pain relief and to avoid surgery (healing) the basic premise behind it as you said is the plasma rich concentrate of growth factors that are deposited in the area of injection which is site specific effectively as well.

Unfortunately my insurance doesn't cover it and they wouldn't let me pay out of pocket for it-still trying to figure that one out-legal mumbo jumbo.

I was told by the office "goes in the medical records anyway and may disqualify you from treatment for another condition they assume caused by the prolotherapy"

PRP varies in cost but a yearly course of it is probably under 5K, where as surgery for shoulder hip knee or back to releive pain ranges up to TEN times that.

 

[Muay Thai]

yes i have heard good things about prolotheraphy

umm ultrasound works great too for breaking up scar tissue

 

[Hungry Hungarian]

Long story short: I'm checking out options for dealing with severe tendonosis, tearing, and trauma of the rotator cuff complex.

There's a couple promising therapies out there: prolotheraphy involves the injection of a dextrose solution into the tendon to stimulate an inflammatory response and encourage tissue growth.

PRP is a similar physical procedure, but using plasma, the idea is again to encourage the tendon to grow and heal rather than degenerate.

Anybody have any first-hand experience with either of these?

Heres your first hand experience. I just had my third prolotherapy shot last Friday morning in my quad tendon just above the kneecap. Prior to my first injection 2 1/2 months ago, I had a hard time doing anything with my knee inlcuding getting out of low cars, going up stairs, sitting for long periods of time and forget about squatting! Since having my third shot, my tendon is so much better its crazy. I am going to get one more shot early next month and I expect to be able to do legs heavy again after that. I am supposed to be taking it easy with exercise that inlvove the knee, but usually 2 weeks after my shot i am able to leg press or do limited range smith squats. So yes, i highly endorse this procedure. I have suffered with this worsening tendonitis for nearly 8 years now and previously only a cortisone shot worked for a short period of time!

Like Massive G said, I too was intially going to get the PRP but my insurance wouldnt cover it and they wouldnt even let me pay out of pocket for it. I dont understand that but it worked out okay as the prolo shots are only $100 a shot vs the $5,000 it was going to cost me for PRP!

 

[phatrr]

You guys & this forum rocks.

Interesting notes about the coverage and availability of prolo v. prp; I have no idea what my options will be, but I love being able to go into the specialist armed with some knowledge of what's going on.

Hungry Hungarian: thanks for the first hand knowledge. If you don't mind my asking, was there any discomfort with the injection? Any other sides? How did you go about picking your doctor for this procedure?

MassiveG: yeah, there's a lot of NFL players who are rehabbing very, very quickly from what I'm hearing.

What's strange is that from what I'm reading there's a non-response rate of 20-40%. So it's still somewhat a toss of the dice. But it sounds like it would be a worthwhile toss. My shoulders are just wrecked.

 

[Hungry Hungarian]

Interesting notes about the coverage and availability of prolo v. prp; I have no idea what my options will be, but I love being able to go into the specialist armed with some knowledge of what's going on.

Hungry Hungarian: thanks for the first hand knowledge. If you don't mind my asking, was there any discomfort with the injection? Any other sides? How did you go about picking your doctor for this procedure?

MassiveG: yeah, there's a lot of NFL players who are rehabbing very, very quickly from what I'm hearing.

What's strange is that from what I'm reading there's a non-response rate of 20-40%. So it's still somewhat a toss of the dice. But it sounds like it would be a worthwhile toss. My shoulders are just wrecked.

Hey phatrr, Yeah there was slight discomfort. The needle goes directly into the injured area, in my case the tendon, and he has to move it around in there alot. My last round of prolo he actually decided to give me two shots one right above the other and that left a lot of bruising and soreness the next day. The shot itself contains dextrose AND lidocaine so that numbs the tendon as soon as he starts injecting for the rest of the day. They also spray cold freeze on the injection site prior to going in so its not very bad.
I must tell you though it doesnt work instantly so dont expect an instant miracle. There were days last month when it would feel great and some mornings i would wake up and the pain would be back and I'd be thinking 'man this doesnt work at all!'.

As far as finding a doctor, you can ask your primary care guy and he may know but i went to the doctor in my area that works on the Tampa Bay Bucs and Lightning hockey team in addition to several colleges. Those guys that work on pros are always cutting edge. This is still new stuff and thats why insurance doesnt cover any of it. No matter who the doctor is, you are going to be in the first 20 -40 people he's done it on...my doc is always asking questions that make me believe he is doing a case study on me!

 

[phatrr]

Hey phatrr, Yeah there was slight discomfort. The needle goes directly into the injured area, in my case the tendon, and he has to move it around in there alot. My last round of prolo he actually decided to give me two shots one right above the other and that left a lot of bruising and soreness the next day. The shot itself contains dextrose AND lidocaine so that numbs the tendon as soon as he starts injecting for the rest of the day. They also spray cold freeze on the injection site prior to going in so its not very bad.
I must tell you though it doesnt work instantly so dont expect an instant miracle. There were days last month when it would feel great and some mornings i would wake up and the pain would be back and I'd be thinking 'man this doesnt work at all!'.

As far as finding a doctor, you can ask your primary care guy and he may know but i went to the doctor in my area that works on the Tampa Bay Bucs and Lightning hockey team in addition to several colleges. Those guys that work on pros are always cutting edge. This is still new stuff and thats why insurance doesnt cover any of it. No matter who the doctor is, you are going to be in the first 20 -40 people he's done it on...my doc is always asking questions that make me believe he is doing a case study on me!

HH,

I'm working with a doc who is the primary team physician for an NFL team, I'm guessing that this is the safest route to take.

Thanks for the gut check that it takes some time to work. If I go this route, I definitely want to manage my expectations.

The discomfort makes sense. After all, we're basically injuring the tissue in a controlled way to provoke the body's healing mechanism.

Thanks brutha!

 

[phatrr]

A quick update and timeline:

10/16: injury occurred, visit to ER.

10-17 - 12/4: self-managed rehab, GHRP-6 protocol, ART, and backing off gets shoulder up to about 80% healed.

12/4: PRP injections.

12/5-12/14: off, except for light rehab

12/15-12/17: light training

12/19: competed in a strongman challenge. Shoulder seemed OK on everything except Max DL, I had to scratch 3rd attempt.

12/22 - now: back to training

12/28: have final visit with doc to get cleared to train.

The PRP was extremely painful in my case. It was a 5 minute session of having a 6" 18Ga needle jammed into the supraspinatus tendon, with sweat pouring from my body. Couldn't move the shoulder at all for a couple days, and stayed on Percoset 24/7 for 3 days.

I think it was worth while. I think the last 20% of healing would have taken months without the kick-start from PRP.

 

[uptownm]

I had prolotherapy in my shoulders and knees due to lots of pain and discomfort. glucosamine, msm, chondroitin, iSAMe, etc.. barely did anything noticeable for me.

I did prolo about 5 years and it did wonders.. joints starting to hurt again and probably going to do more in a couple weeks.

last time I did it, one of my knees was swollen for about 6 weeks.. I think maybe I got an infection when he was doing it - so will need to make sure everything is swabbed good and cleaned up better. otherwise, I was happy with the results.

 

[Flex2019]

A close friend of mine had PRP done last year to help with long time issues he was having with his both quadriceps tendons near the knees. Luckily his insurance covered it. He reported that the procedure was quite painful for about a week following, but it worked very well and his tendon issues are almost nonexistent now when nothing else even touched them. Hope this helps.

 

[monopoly]

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread as well. Great info. Phatrr, man that sounds rough.

I had my knee drained a long time ago and the needle got caught on one of my tendons. It took what seemed like forever to get the thing out and once they did I passed out. Fuggin hate needles, think they would have to put me under to endure what you went through. How did you like the GHRP-6? I have been thinking about trying that.

A quick update and timeline:

10/16: injury occurred, visit to ER.

10-17 - 12/4: self-managed rehab, GHRP-6 protocol, ART, and backing off gets shoulder up to about 80% healed.

12/4: PRP injections.

12/5-12/14: off, except for light rehab

12/15-12/17: light training

12/19: competed in a strongman challenge. Shoulder seemed OK on everything except Max DL, I had to scratch 3rd attempt.

12/22 - now: back to training

12/28: have final visit with doc to get cleared to train.

The PRP was extremely painful in my case. It was a 5 minute session of having a 6" 18Ga needle jammed into the supraspinatus tendon, with sweat pouring from my body. Couldn't move the shoulder at all for a couple days, and stayed on Percoset 24/7 for 3 days.

I think it was worth while. I think the last 20% of healing would have taken months without the kick-start from PRP.