Protein in a Plant-Based Diet: A Vegan Bodybuilder's Perspective

[Pharm_Fed]

Found this article, thought it was interesting. My wife is vegan and she eats some pretty awesome meals. Thought maybe Mack Truck could chime in on this. I don't think I could be vegan forever, but I'm interested in perhaps trying it out for a little while and seeing how I feel. Thought maybe this would spark some interesting discussion.

The most common questions a vegan gets, upon sharing that he or she follows a plant-based diet, are: Where do you get your protein? How do you get enough? Do you have to combine plant proteins? These questions will often come from individuals who, prior to their concern that your plant-based diet will lead you to die of protein deficiency, never gave a thought to nutrition in their life. This can frustrate the most docile vegan into belligerence, but it is an important question to a lot of people, so it deserves a thoughtful answer. Where does our protein come from?

As children we are taught that we need to eat a lot of protein to grow up big, strong and healthy, and to get it we should make meat and dairy products the centerpiece of our diets. Vegetables are merely an unpleasant but necessary means of earning dessert. The fact that the broccoli on your plate has twice as much protein per calorie as the steak it’s next to (11.2g vs 5.4g per 100 calories) is not widely known, leaving the average person doubtful that a plant-based diet could ever fill that imagined steak-shaped void in their protein requirements.

When you take a step back, where does protein originally come from? Yes, animal muscle tissue has a lot of protein, but do animals make it all from thin air? No! Animals have to take in amino acids (the building blocks of protein) from plants in order to make that muscle tissue. Yes, animals can convert some aminos into others as needed, but they can’t make any of the essential or conditionally essential amino acids from scratch – only plants can do that. When you’re looking at that steak on your plate you aren’t seeing the only possible source of dietary protein in nature, you’re actually seeing second -hand plant proteins that have been stripped of fiber, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals and packaged with cholesterol and environmental contaminants; whereas the broccoli has plenty of freshly crafted protein and tons of nutrients besides!

And this makes sense if you consider it. If plants have no protein and you need protein to grow big and strong, how on earth do animals like elephants, gorillas and oxen get so big and strong eating only plants? A diverse plant-based diet can obviously support a big, powerful body. A typical adult human needs between 46 and 56 grams of protein per day (according to the United States Dietary Reference Intake guidelines) which is easily supplied by a whole foods plant-based diet. As a vegan bodybuilder I have gone as high as 300 grams of protein per day, all on a whole foods plant-based diet! And what about getting all the essential amino acids we need? Not a problem! A variety of plant foods eaten throughout the day will supply your body with all the essential amino acids it needs to perform and recover – no special food combinations needed!

Now that it’s clear a plant based diet has all the protein anyone needs, let’s consider what it takes to produce that protein and get it to your plate. With a whole plant food this is fairly simple: just consider the amount of land the plant was grown on as well as the water, nutrients, and labor required to grow it, and the distance it had to travel to get to your grocery store and you’ve got a fair idea. Now consider the animal protein. How much plant food did the animal consume in its life before it was slaughtered? How much land, water, nutrients, and labor was needed to produce all of that food? Additionally, how much water, land, and labor did it take to then raise the animal to adulthood, slaughter it, process it, and transport it… you get the idea. The animal consumes massive amounts of resources to essentially convert plant protein into its own muscle tissue, so why not just skip the middle man?

When viewed this way it becomes clearer that plant foods not only provide a great source of protein packaged with a bounty of essential nutrients, they also use far less resources like water, land, labor, and produce far less pollution in the process. Even if you don’t examine the spectacular health benefits of a plant-based diet such as the prevention of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes, the case for following such a diet becomes substantial. With that in mind, the next time you get the question “Where do you get your protein?”, you may want to turn around and ask the questioner if they know where theirs comes from.

This is the guy who wrote this. Not huge, but still muscular and his conditioning is great, especially considering he's probably natural, and I'd say he is far healthier than most of us.

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[Elusive]

Wow, definitely some food for thought! Thanks for sharing the article.

I wonder though, just how large a quantity of vegetables would one have to eat each day to get all their protein in? I'm not sure many of us have the time to pound the veggies all day like many of the animals he referenced!

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Wow, definitely some food for thought! Thanks for sharing the article.

I wonder though, just how large a quantity of vegetables would one have to eat each day to get all their protein in? I'm not sure many of us have the time to pound the veggies all day like many of the animals he referenced!

That's a good point. However, I remember hearing in a documentary how when food is cooked something like 40-50% of protein is destroyed from the heat. So consider the possibility that when you're eating enough meat for what you believe to be 300g protein ED, what you're actually eating is equivalent to only about 150g protein. That would make that target much easier to hit with just vegetables.

Another thing you could do is supplement with Pea Isolate, Rice protein, etc. Interesting for sure. I hope Mack Truck will weigh in with some real life experience on this.

 

[tmuscle]

That dude would look like nothing in regular clothes.

 

[Bionic]

They always lose me when they start to talk about how vegetarian animals can be so muscular, etc. They always leave out the part about how animals secrete different enzymes that can strip proteins out of plant cellulose that humans cannot. I think cattle have like 3 stomachs to accomplish this result. The animals take care of that process and then we eat the animals to reap the benefits. But hey, if you like being vegan, have at it!

 

[Pharm_Fed]

That dude would look like nothing in regular clothes.

What's your point?

They always lose me when they start to talk about how vegetarian animals can be so muscular, etc. They always leave out the part about how animals secrete different enzymes that can strip proteins out of plant cellulose that humans cannot. I think cattle have like 3 stomachs to accomplish this result. The animals take care of that process and then we eat the animals to reap the benefits. But hey, if you like being vegan, have at it!

You make a good point, but apparently whatever he is doing works. I would love to see what his diet looks like.

 

[tmuscle]

They always lose me when they start to talk about how vegetarian animals can be so muscular, etc. They always leave out the part about how animals secrete different enzymes that can strip proteins out of plant cellulose that humans cannot. I think cattle have like 3 stomachs to accomplish this result. The animals take care of that process and then we eat the animals to reap the benefits. But hey, if you like being vegan, have at it!

If i could only take that ability from a silverback gorilla or rhino, i think i would be set...

In fact i love eating veggie, feels so light on the stomach


And come on now this is bodybuilding, we dont eat and train and drug up to look like a normal lean guy in clothes... But i like the idea of increased veggie in a fast food nation

 

[Bionic]

If i could only take that ability from a silverback gorilla or rhino, i think i would be set...

In fact i love eating veggie, feels so light on the stomach


And come on now this is bodybuilding, we dont eat and train and drug up to look like a normal lean guy in clothes... But i like the idea of increased veggie in a fast food nation

I, personally, only eat vegetarian animals. If the animal eats veggies and I eat the animal, I'm getting veggies by proxy! Sounds good on paper. LOL

 

[Overwatch]

I would never give up animal proteins, but do borrow some meals from vegans that will augment my protein intake. As I approach 400-450 grams of protein a day I find it hard to eat so much meat as I can't do whey at all. One simple addition is switching from rice to quinoa. Quinoa is a complete protein and has a good flavor. It can usually be substituted for rice or cous-cous in most dishes. I also like it as a cereal with dried cranberries, walnuts, and milk.

 

[Pharm_Fed]

If i could only take that ability from a silverback gorilla or rhino, i think i would be set...

In fact i love eating veggie, feels so light on the stomach


And come on now this is bodybuilding, we dont eat and train and drug up to look like a normal lean guy in clothes... But i like the idea of increased veggie in a fast food nation

But not everyone on here wants to be a 280lb freak. For some, being a muscular and lean build is enough, especially considering longevity and health issues. Just another perspective, definitely not for everybody

 

[Pharm_Fed]

I would never give up animal proteins, but do borrow some meals from vegans that will augment my protein intake. As I approach 400-450 grams of protein a day I find it hard to eat so much meat as I can't do whey at all. One simple addition is switching from rice to quinoa. Quinoa is a complete protein and has a good flavor. It can usually be substituted for rice or cous-cous in most dishes. I also like it as a cereal with dried cranberries, walnuts, and milk.

Quinoa is awesome, my wife has a recipe for quinoa patties that are terrific. Spirulina and nutritional yeast are a couple other things she uses that are pretty good protein sources.

 

[tmuscle]

I, personally, only eat vegetarian animals. If the animal eats veggies and I eat the animal, I'm getting veggies by proxy! Sounds good on paper. LOL

Lmao, nice theory. Just like when you marry someone you inherit their debts as well, lol.


Why is it that most vegans seem like some of the most smug people on the planet? You can group them along with road cyclists, and crossfitters in that elitist snob group. Just IME

 

[Bionic]

But not everyone on here wants to be a 280lb freak. For some, being a muscular and lean build is enough, especially considering longevity and health issues. Just another perspective, definitely not for everybody

I agree with you. I think the guy has a good physique and would be a good role-model/inspiration for those who are vegan but don't think that bb'ing is for them.

 

[Bionic]

Lmao, nice theory. Just like when you marry someone you inherit their debts as well, lol.


Why is it that most vegans seem like some of the most smug people on the planet? You can group them along with road cyclists, and crossfitters in that elitist snob group. Just IME

Can you imagine the intensity of the smugness from a vegan crossfitter that drives a hybrid car? OMG! You'd be able to power cities on it!

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Can you imagine the intensity of the smugness from a vegan crossfitter that drives a hybrid car? OMG! You'd be able to power cities on it!

lol. I think the smugness for most comes from the standpoint of being vegan for morality reasons. They have that 'holier than thou' attitude because they 'care more about animal rights'. Speaking for my wife, she did it purely for health reasons and doesn't have that smugness at all. I agree that is the sterotype though.

 

[Mini Truck]

Congratulations Mrs Pharm Fed

I was just waiting a while to see how others would respond, but here I am and thanks for the invite Pharm. .

Just to touch on the "smug" comments. I think that comes from a "save the world" perspective". Most of the Vegan Health Food Stores seem like they're run by left-over hippies, from the Beatles era. Same thing; "save the world" type.

If you perceive yourself as being "smug" or "elite", that's a personal decision.
Smug people can be Vegans or Carvivors. Traits in one's personality that shine or in many cases don't shine, are a result of your upbringing and value system you choose to operate under. I mean, I'm a Vegan now, just for the last couple years, was a full blown carnivor before, and I don't believe I've ever met a single person who thought of me in this way.

The writer of this article, I'm talking about his physique, is a result of how he trains, not what he eats. I beleive he trains for fitness and good health, and looks great.

By the same token, if he wanted to look like a bodybuilder, he would have to train like a bodybuilder, for years and years. Huge difference between the two.

I personally have trained like a bber for 30+ years and am still at it full throttle as I prep for the Master's Nats this July. Will I get beat by a carnivor, probably not. Will I be beat by a better bodybuilder, we'll just have to wait a few months and find out. Those in my camp are confident.

So I'm sure the Vegan thing leaves lots of questions. Just always keep on the back burner of our minds the power of marketing. Every other page of MD is filled with stimuli that penetrates our thinking without us even being aware. Endlessly. Protein companies can be much more profitable from promoting whey and cassien and animal based proteins. There simple isn't enough money to be made in promoting vegetable based products.

If any of the main players in the protein marketing trap, could make more money from veg protein, they would be promoting it. Just think how that dynamic alone would influence your thought process.

When I first turned vegan, in an effort to reverse my coronary heart disease, I thought my bodybuilding days were over. I had been reading muscle mags and doing the typical a,b,c's for years and years. So, of course, I felt like I couldn't get enough protein. I was destined to think that way.

So, if something in life is a hurdle to me, I will figure out a way. (think back to the upbringing part at the beginning).

During my "dark 2 years of health", I lost about 30 pounds of lean, imagine how that messes with your mind. But guess what, I've put it all back on and then some, using just HRT doses. I have not had one single animal meal or any by-product (eggs) of an animal in over 2 years.

My cholesterol, BP, A1C, and all my blood work are better than ever.

I eat a ton of veggies, the more colorful, the better, every day, with every meal. Since July of last year I have been in contest prep mode and needed to increase my protein intake, so I use Pea-Isolate (200 grams worth) from True Nutrition every day.

Because I have been an NPC judge for so many years, my eye are trained to see detail, or often, lack of detail. So I'm very "hard" on myself when it comes to the mirror. In all honesty, I see more good things, more changes, now that I'm a Vegan than when I was a carnivor.

I'm not against eating meat or killing animals for the meat. What I am, and always have been against, is thinking and believing there is only one way to accomplish your goal.

Always keep your mind o-p-e-n. Tradition isn't always the best way.

Peace,

Mack

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Thanks for the response Mack. You often hear about certain vitamins and minerals that are difficult to get with a vegan diet, for example B vitamins. Are there particular foods that you eat to cover all your bases or have you found it better to supplement to get all your nutrients in?

 

[Ironraider]

From a carnivore to vegan (Mack)....

Best post I've read in some time...great post!

I was just waiting a while to see how others would respond, but here I am and thanks for the invite Pharm. .

Just to touch on the "smug" comments. I think that comes from a "save the world" perspective". Most of the Vegan Health Food Stores seem like they're run by left-over hippies, from the Beatles era. Same thing; "save the world" type.

If you perceive yourself as being "smug" or "elite", that's a personal decision.
Smug people can be Vegans or Carvivors. Traits in one's personality that shine or in many cases don't shine, are a result of your upbringing and value system you choose to operate under. I mean, I'm a Vegan now, just for the last couple years, was a full blown carnivor before, and I don't believe I've ever met a single person who thought of me in this way.

The writer of this article, I'm talking about his physique, is a result of how he trains, not what he eats. I beleive he trains for fitness and good health, and looks great.

By the same token, if he wanted to look like a bodybuilder, he would have to train like a bodybuilder, for years and years. Huge difference between the two.

I personally have trained like a bber for 30+ years and am still at it full throttle as I prep for the Master's Nats this July. Will I get beat by a carnivor, probably not. Will I be beat by a better bodybuilder, we'll just have to wait a few months and find out. Those in my camp are confident.

So I'm sure the Vegan thing leaves lots of questions. Just always keep on the back burner of our minds the power of marketing. Every other page of MD is filled with stimuli that penetrates our thinking without us even being aware. Endlessly. Protein companies can be much more profitable from promoting whey and cassien and animal based proteins. There simple isn't enough money to be made in promoting vegetable based products.

If any of the main players in the protein marketing trap, could make more money from veg protein, they would be promoting it. Just think how that dynamic alone would influence your thought process.

When I first turned vegan, in an effort to reverse my coronary heart disease, I thought my bodybuilding days were over. I had been reading muscle mags and doing the typical a,b,c's for years and years. So, of course, I felt like I couldn't get enough protein. I was destined to think that way.

So, if something in life is a hurdle to me, I will figure out a way. (think back to the upbringing part at the beginning).

During my "dark 2 years of health", I lost about 30 pounds of lean, imagine how that messes with your mind. But guess what, I've put it all back on and then some, using just HRT doses. I have not had one single animal meal or any by-product (eggs) of an animal in over 2 years.

My cholesterol, BP, A1C, and all my blood work are better than ever.

I eat a ton of veggies, the more colorful, the better, every day, with every meal. Since July of last year I have been in contest prep mode and needed to increase my protein intake, so I use Pea-Isolate (200 grams worth) from True Nutrition every day.

Because I have been an NPC judge for so many years, my eye are trained to see detail, or often, lack of detail. So I'm very "hard" on myself when it comes to the mirror. In all honesty, I see more good things, more changes, now that I'm a Vegan than when I was a carnivor.

I'm not against eating meat or killing animals for the meat. What I am, and always have been against, is thinking and believing there is only one way to accomplish your goal.

Always keep your mind o-p-e-n. Tradition isn't always the best way.

Peace,

Mack

 

[Mini Truck]

Pharm,

I currently do use a supplement to cover my bases, for "extra coverage".

But for a non-bodybuilder, all your basis will be covered with a whole food approach. Whole foods should be a stable of everyone's diet.
Steel Cut Oats, Ezieliel, Grits, brown rice, red potatoes, wheat germ, Nutritional Yeast, barley, beans, unprocessed whole wheat flour, whole wheat pasta, yams, all veggies and fruits will cover all bases.

I am also a No Fat Vegan, because of my CHD. But nuts and seeds, "real" peanut butter, hummis, guacomoli, etc should be part of a vegans diet on a daily basis.

Mack

Thanks for the response Mack. You often hear about certain vitamins and minerals that are difficult to get with a vegan diet, for example B vitamins. Are there particular foods that you eat to cover all your bases or have you found it better to supplement to get all your nutrients in?

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Pharm,

I currently do use a supplement to cover my bases, for "extra coverage".

But for a non-bodybuilder, all your basis will be covered with a whole food approach. Whole foods should be a stable of everyone's diet.
Steel Cut Oats, Ezieliel, Grits, brown rice, red potatoes, wheat germ, Nutritional Yeast, barley, beans, unprocessed whole wheat flour, whole wheat pasta, yams, all veggies and fruits will cover all bases.

I am also a No Fat Vegan, because of my CHD. But nuts and seeds, "real" peanut butter, hummis, guacomoli, etc should be part of a vegans diet on a daily basis.

Mack

Good deal, sent you a PM to discuss things further if you don't mind!