Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
esquel
YMSGIF210x65-Banner
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Proven Myostatin inhibitors----EAA (50-70%), Creatine

I just got done doing 5 days with all the myo inhibiting products.

Acicia extract- Epi
Cocoa- Epi
EAA
Vitamin D
Grape seed extract-Epi
NO boosters (bh4, mthlyfolate, vit c, arg, AKG)

It may just be in my head but my muscles/tendons seemed to tighten up by day 2. I cut my run short to blast some ipam/ghrp2 to try and build up some tendon strength.

I am not able to do high weight exercises because of health issues but I did notice my muscles seem fuller. here is what it felt like.

More blood flow to muscles.
Muscles got tired/raw/sore sooner but healed faster
Body needed more water
tendons seemed to get stiffer(may be in my head though)


Based on the limited research into Myostatin inhibition it seems it does lower the expression of genes for collagen
I don't remember but it was like 1.2-3 fold lowering. human and animal studies.

Human GH studies showed that GH can raise collagen by 3-3.5 fold.

Weather mild or short term myo inhibition will affect tendons, and how much is not yet known, but it seems to me that GH/ghrp's should be upped during a Myo cycle in order to counteract (if possible) the tendon issues.

It also seems like the safest thing to do is do 1 on, 2 off, to make sure the tendons have time to catch up to the muscle growth.

Using these herbs and supps may not give the same effect as folli-344 but I do believe they have a true affect.

It would be nice to see some logs/results of people who can work out right.

I am just on a maintenance diet, and exercise only includes functional movements, so my results should only be MINIMAL compared to someone on the right diet, etc.
 
Last edited:
I did a run of a few things but had to stop because I was gaining muscle too fast.

I have bad tendons and putting on 4 pounds in about 14 days was to much for my body.

I was in a calorie deficit too.

I was using

LEF green tea 700 mg, (18-25 mg Epicatechin_)

550 mg Acicia extract (22 mg Epicatechin_)

Grape seed extract (Unknown Epicatchin content)

4-8 grams of cocoa powder ( 4-16 mg Epicatechin)

This level and dosing closely mimics the study that altered myostatin/follistatin levels by 49%

The language is vague, but I think it means a 25% raise in Folli and a 25% lowering in Myostatin.

I also made sure to get a lot of sun and take Viatmin D.

Each day I felt a litte change in my body.

Needing more fluid
Muscles getting fuller
Muscles getting sore more easily

At around day 14 I was starting to gain 1/2 to 1 pound a day.
Biceps grew, legs grew.

The addition of EAA would have dropped myostatin levels even more and also helped build muscle.

I have been on a STRICT diet for the last2-3 months. Whether the gain is mostly tissue or water is yet to be seen.

But it seems like A 50+mg dose of Epicatechin, plus 7-10G EAA, plus calorie surplus and hard training would give great results and FAST gains.


P.s. I know what water gain from GH, ghrp and creatine feels like and it did not feel like that.


I believe the best method may be using lower dose of Epicatchin to keep myostatin a little lower all the time and doing the 7-10 G EAA post training to bump it down lower after the training induced tendon/collagen building growth factors are released (that Lower mystatin levels my affect).
 
Last edited:
Very interesting and informative thread, thank you Floxe. Do you plan on continuing your research with Myostatin Inhibitors at a lower dose?
 
Very interesting and informative thread, thank you Floxe. Do you plan on continuing your research with Myostatin Inhibitors at a lower dose?

Because my tendon issues, weight is a limiting factor.

After I lose a few pounds I will add in a little Green tea.

If I can lose the fat I need to, 15/20 pounds, then I would love to run all the inhibitors with a calorie surplus to build muscle without fat, hopefully.

Epicatechin absorption from cocoa is HIGHLY variable, best absorption is with bread/carbs/sugar .

1 gram of Grape seed extract seems to raise blood levels of epicatchin pretty high (I guess) and anti-oxidant capacity too.

http://www.usana.com/media/File/dotCom/company/science/crb/CR_Epicatechin_Bioavailability_Poster.pdf

Acacia Extract.

"Our HPLC studies (table 1 &2) revealed that the
plant extract were also rich in Epicatechin
(4.156%w/w)"

Estimation of Biomarker Epicatechin in Ethanolic Bark Extract of Acacia catechu willd by HPLC Method - Tags: ACACIA BARK

http://www.jpsr.pharmainfo.in/Documents/Volumes/vol4Issue03/jpsr 04120304.pdf

So a 550mg Acacia extract pill should have 4% Epicatechin by weight.

550 x .04 = 22

So each pill SHOULD have 22 mg Epicatechin in it.

The guy promoting the BLR epicatchin pill says the epicatchin must be (-)- Epicatechin and not the other kind. I am not smart enough to know the difference.

From what I've read Grape seed extract, cocoa, and grean tea all have the (-)- kind.


The labs I have found that sell "pure" (-)- Epicatchin charge like 10 times more for it than regular epicatchin. ONE GRAM was like $700!!!!

Anyways, green tea extract, EAA are pretty cheap, I would love to the results a healthy person could get.


***** 10 Grams of EAA has been shown in studies to lower myostatin by 50-75% in humans. I think one reason why the "LEANGAINS" people have success is because they can take like 30-50 Grams of EAA a day.
 
Hey Floxedone,

How many mg's of each supplement were you running per day? Im going to do a similar routine as yours, and was wondering how much of each I should take. Already placed the orders online.

Thanks buddy.
 
EAA is essential amino acids???

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

Yes thats correct. I recomend you pick up Body Fortress Protein at WalMart, it has EAAs/BCAA's as well as Creatine added into it already all only for $15. Two scoops per day should provide more than enough of everything you need from EAA and Creatine according to the study. 30 g's of protein per scoop doesnt hurt either.
 
LEF green tea 700 mg, (18-25 mg Epicatechin_)

550 mg Acicia extract (22 mg Epicatechin_)

Grape seed extract (Unknown Epicatchin content)
200-300MG

4-8 grams of cocoa powder ( 4-16 mg Epicatechin) take with carbs
10,000iu Vitamin D every 2-3 days

10 G BCAA/EAA's 2-4 times a day.

People say taking BCAA/EAA is NOT the same as drinking protien powder with BCAA/EAA in them.

The pure aminos are absorbed into the blood quickly and spike the serum levels resulting in lowered myostatin and increase in protein synthesis. I read the BCAA/EAA in protein powder has to be digested before it enters the blood stream so it may take a lot longer.

I recommend buying an instatized form of BCAA, as they taste decent, normal ones don't mix in water and are horrible to taste.

Here is the breakdown from the study.

l-histidine (0.8 g),
l-isoleucine (0.8 g),
l-leucine (3.5 g),
l-lysine (1.2 g),
l-methionine (3.0 g),
l-phenylalanine (1.4 g),
l-threonine (1.0 g), and
l-valine (1.0 g) (Ajinomoto/Sigma Aldrich).


I usually take 6grams of BCAA (leucine,isoleucine,valine) 2:1:1 then add in 1gram of mixed aminos, 1g taurine, 1.5 g glutamine.

Myostatin is important in healing tendon damage but it's role in mainating tendons is not known yet.
Myostatin in tendon maintenance and repair. [Growth Factors. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Rat study

."Our results indicate that myostatin plays a positive role in tendon maintenance and that exogenous protein administration stimulates proliferation and growth of early repair tissue. However, no effect on further development towards connective tissue formation was found."


It's SEEMS safest to use either BCAA/EAA regular and blast with epicatechin for a few weeks for longer, or the other way around.

Grape seed extract, msm, NAC, Hyalurnic acid, and glucosime/chondrotine are good supps to help offset any tendon issues.

A study proved grape seed extract can raise plamsa epicatechin levels.

http://www.usana.com/media/File/dotCom/company/science/crb/CR_Epicatechin_Bioavailability_Poster.pdf

Good luck
 
LEF green tea 700 mg, (18-25 mg Epicatechin_)

550 mg Acicia extract (22 mg Epicatechin_)

Grape seed extract (Unknown Epicatchin content)
200-300MG

4-8 grams of cocoa powder ( 4-16 mg Epicatechin) take with carbs
10,000iu Vitamin D every 2-3 days

10 G BCAA/EAA's 2-4 times a day.

People say taking BCAA/EAA is NOT the same as drinking protien powder with BCAA/EAA in them.

The pure aminos are absorbed into the blood quickly and spike the serum levels resulting in lowered myostatin and increase in protein synthesis. I read the BCAA/EAA in protein powder has to be digested before it enters the blood stream so it may take a lot longer.

I recommend buying an instatized form of BCAA, as they taste decent, normal ones don't mix in water and are horrible to taste.

Here is the breakdown from the study.

l-histidine (0.8 g),
l-isoleucine (0.8 g),
l-leucine (3.5 g),
l-lysine (1.2 g),
l-methionine (3.0 g),
l-phenylalanine (1.4 g),
l-threonine (1.0 g), and
l-valine (1.0 g) (Ajinomoto/Sigma Aldrich).


I usually take 6grams of BCAA (leucine,isoleucine,valine) 2:1:1 then add in 1gram of mixed aminos, 1g taurine, 1.5 g glutamine.

Myostatin is important in healing tendon damage but it's role in mainating tendons is not known yet.
Myostatin in tendon maintenance and repair. [Growth Factors. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Rat study

."Our results indicate that myostatin plays a positive role in tendon maintenance and that exogenous protein administration stimulates proliferation and growth of early repair tissue. However, no effect on further development towards connective tissue formation was found."


It's SEEMS safest to use either BCAA/EAA regular and blast with epicatechin for a few weeks for longer, or the other way around.

Grape seed extract, msm, NAC, Hyalurnic acid, and glucosime/chondrotine are good supps to help offset any tendon issues.

A study proved grape seed extract can raise plamsa epicatechin levels.

http://www.usana.com/media/File/dotCom/company/science/crb/CR_Epicatechin_Bioavailability_Poster.pdf

Good luck

YOU ARE THE MAN! Really appreciate buddy. Time to do some more shopping. Thanks for the heads up on the ECAAs too, ill pick some up tomorrow. Im already feeling pretty stiff and achy, things are looking promising! Thanks again.
 
This is very interesting.

Just thinking out loud here but I am wondering: is there ay other benefit from those supplements besides giving the body all the Epicatechin_ needed?

If so, wouldn't a high amount of dark chocolate provide a similar amount of Epicatechin_?
 
This is very interesting.

Just thinking out loud here but I am wondering: is there ay other benefit from those supplements besides giving the body all the Epicatechin_ needed?

If so, wouldn't a high amount of dark chocolate provide a similar amount of Epicatechin_?

Yes, Acacia, green tea, grape seed extract have AMAZING benefits from balancing glucose spikes on high carb means, protecting the heart, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, etc.

Chocolate has some issues.

"Chocolate contains oxalate — a naturally occurring compound in cocoa beans, which can inhibit calcium absorption."

To much oxalate can cause kidney stones.

Theobromine poisoning- dark chocolate/cocoa is high in theobromine and can cause humans to get sick/ dogs cats to die.


In a cocoa study the blood --EC level was an average of around 150 ng/ml which is the same for the "1 gram" serving of Grape seed extract.

**broken link removed**

THe cocoa they used had an -- EC value of "(–)-Ec 70.5 mg/100 g"

they drank "40 g of cocoa powder dissolved with 250 ml
of water"


So 40 G of that coca would have around:

.705mg --EC per 1 G cocoa
.705 times 40 G in drink is 28.2 mg of --EC

Both 1 G of Grape seed extract and 40G of cocoa at 28.2mg --EC can raise blood values of EPI to around 150 ng/ml

http://www.usana.com/media/File/dotCom/company/science/crb/CR_Epicatechin_Bioavailability_Poster.pdf


SO, Given the same absorption of Cocoa and Gape seed extract, the assumption could be made that:

150 ng/ml = 28 mg of --EC

so 1 g of GSE would have 28 mg of --EC


LEF green tea 700 mg, (18-25 mg Epicatechin_)

550 mg Acicia extract (22 mg Epicatechin_)

Grape seed extract ( 28 mg EPI per Gram-Guestament)

4-8 grams of cocoa powder ( 2-16 mg Epicatechin) take with carbs


Acacia and Green tea seem to be the cheapest source of EPI,

Cocoa and Grape seed can help add on a little more.

I know that cocoa, grape seed, and green tea contain the -- form of EPI but have yet to find any data showing what form is in Acacia.
 
Last edited:
I wonder how much epi matcha green tea contains...
 

Staff online

  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator
  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub

Forum statistics

Total page views
558,099,010
Threads
135,764
Messages
2,768,802
Members
160,344
Latest member
Punisher13420
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yourmuscleshop210x131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top