Question about my blood work, low test levels at 25 yrs old

[anta]

A couple years ago I started my first and only cycle, it was test and super dmz. I was originally only going to do 8 weeks but decided to stay on the test for 6 months, then came off because I still want kids in the future. I did hcg periodically through out the cycle and at the end I did 2000 iu every other day with a total of 8000 iu, once the hcg cleared I did an 8 week pct with clomid and Nolvadex.

Now that I think back I know my estrogen was high during pct because my nipples were sensitive, I was on aromasin but apparently it didn't work. But regardless shouldn't my levels have recovered by now on their own even if my pct was ruined by high estrogen levels? Am I fucked or do I still have a chance at recovering? I've been off my pct for about a year and a half maybe longer and here are my levels

Test 420
Lh 5
Estrogen 45

 

[lntense]

Those numbers very well may be what is normal for you. In my 20s before cycling my test levels were in the 300s..


Did you ever get a baseline reading before ever cycling? if not then we will never know what is normal for you to recover to.

 

[anta]

Those numbers very well may be what is normal for you.


Did you ever get a baseline reading before ever cycling? if not then we will never know what is normal for you to recover to.

I didn't have a baseline but I think it's unlikely, I've always been a naturally big muscular guy, I weighed 260 and was benching 405 at 18. Now I'm tired more than what's usual for me and can't recover from hard workouts like I used to.

 

[Kaladryn]

A couple years ago I started my first and only cycle, it was test and super dmz. I was originally only going to do 8 weeks but decided to stay on the test for 6 months, then came off because I still want kids in the future. I did hcg periodically through out the cycle and at the end I did 2000 iu every other day with a total of 8000 iu, once the hcg cleared I did an 8 week pct with clomid and Nolvadex.

Now that I think back I know my estrogen was high during pct because my nipples were sensitive, I was on aromasin but apparently it didn't work. But regardless shouldn't my levels have recovered by now on their own even if my pct was ruined by high estrogen levels? Am I fucked or do I still have a chance at recovering? I've been off my pct for about a year and a half maybe longer and here are my levels

Test 420
Lh 5
Estrogen 45

Estrogen is what tells your body to make less testosterone in the feedback loop. Your estrogen is relatively high for male, so your test is on the lower side of normal. Estrogen comes from the conversion of testosterone by the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase is found in fat cells, what is your bodyfat at?

 

[anta]

Estrogen is what tells your body to make less testosterone in the feedback loop. Your estrogen is relatively high for male, so your test is on the lower side of normal. Estrogen comes from the conversion of testosterone by the enzyme aromatase. Aromatase is found in fat cells, what is your bodyfat at?

My body fat is fairly high I weigh 290 and would say my body fat is around 17-19%

 

[anta]

What do you think my best plan of action would be? I was thinking 50 mg clomid for 4 weeks and 25mg for 4 weeks and add arimidex as soon as possible. Would hcg not be useful here since my lh isn't rock bottom?

 

[Kaladryn]

What do you think my best plan of action would be? I was thinking 50 mg clomid for 4 weeks and 25mg for 4 weeks and add arimidex as soon as possible. Would hcg not be useful here since my lh isn't rock bottom?

"PCT" is a myth for the most part, at best it a tool for bridging between cycles. It in no way "restarts" anything, your endocrine system doesn't work that way. You can do clomid and arimidex but you will end up with high T and low E2. As soon as you remove the clomid and AI, low E2 will tell your body to make more T, and the high T will increase your E2 until you have low T and high E2 again.

What you want to maximize stimulation of the HPG axis is low T AND low E2, that will maximize GNRH and LH production, while keeping E2 low and encouraging T to come back up.

Reduce your bodyfat to healthy levels.

 

[anta]

"PCT" is a myth for the most part, at best it a tool for bridging between cycles. It in no way "restarts" anything, your endocrine system doesn't work that way. You can do clomid and arimidex but you will end up with high T and low E2. As soon as you remove the clomid and AI, low E2 will tell your body to make more T, and the high T will increase your E2 until you have low T and high E2 again.

What you want to maximize stimulation of the HPG axis is low T AND low E2, that will maximize GNRH and LH production, while keeping E2 low and encouraging T to come back up.

Reduce your bodyfat to healthy levels.

So I'll forget about the clomid, and work on lowering body fat. Would a low dose of an ai be beneficial in the mean time, a low dose twice a week, not enough to crash estrogen just lower it slightly.

 

[Kaladryn]

So I'll forget about the clomid, and work on lowering body fat. Would a low dose of an ai be beneficial in the mean time, a low dose twice a week, not enough to crash estrogen just lower it slightly.

Low dose AI is a great quick fix, and fat falls off faster without a lot of E2 around. The trick is going to be to use very small amounts of AI. Remember AI blocks the enzyme from converting T to E2, and you don't have very much T around to convert, so you don't need very much AI. I'd be looking at .25mg adex EOD or E3D.

 

[swim15]

Already got tons of good advice above.

Also wanted to chime in that your levels could have been there before cycling- strength has almost nothing to do with endogenous test levels. Some of the strongest guys I know have similar PL body types, strong af but thick and not lean but had shitty natural test production.

Moreover, I would personally argue that cycling/running gear does permanent damage to the endocrine system and you will never fully recover after running gear. Hormones may recover to baseline temporarily but by the time even those guys are in their 30's their levels are tanking from what I've seen from people/patients.

 

[SRhealth-Rachel]

TRT maybe a good way to you, if you want to increase your testosterone level


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[anta]

I've always been fairly lean for my eating habits, ate like shit and drank pop and ate pizza all the time and was around 255 12%. I really started gaining body fat the last few years. If this doesn't bring me up to 500's at least I'm going to get my sperm frozen then go on trt. Then I can use what ever I want and not have to worry about testosterone production.