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Question for Doggcrapp, Dirk, Phil..

Yea

KillerStack said:
I just remembered a quote by Mentzer, in MD magazine, pretty close before he died. He said something to the effect of "The only improvement I can see in todays physiques that all the new drugs have caused is a bigger vastus lateralis". He thought the physiques in his time were comparable to today except today they have bigger thighs.

he was also found naked underneath an overpass in Los Angeles talking about Satan and Jesus. He called me one time and went on a rampage about todays BBers and how they cant compare to Viator or Padilla. He was truly WAK!
 
I am not sure I am understanding this whole arguement going on here .........What is the issue with what people take or don't ? The bottom line is that physiques have progressed for several reasons . Better nutrition / supps , much smarter training [ most guys way over trained back then and didn't train to get stronger ] , and of course the use of things like GH , IGF -1 long 3 , and insulin . [ basically the same AS have been used since the late 70s .....so nothing new there ] As far as dosages are concerned , as someone that is still close to alot of top guys in the sport , I think Magnum said it best . Some guys take alittle and respond really well and other guys take a ton and respond well too . But there are far more guys that take gear that take gear and look like shit no matter how much they take and I think that is what Phil is getting at. The sport is genetic period .......not just your genetic framework either , but how you respond to the chemical side as well [ sad but true ] but if you think most top guys are taking over 1500 mgs a week you are mistaken . [ yes ,I know guys taking more 4 grams a week as well ......but most of the top 15 dont ] I was going to sponser a guy that won a couple of shows last year .......I know that 3 months before he turned pro he was using 900 mgs total and never had used gh ......but another guy from canada that I was going to help that is part of a big ad campaign this year was using 3 -4 grams a week....[ and this guy is really gifted ] Rory Liedelmeyer never used more than 1500 mgs ever[mostly about 1000mgs a week 3 weeks on 2 off ] .So what am I getting at ? Simple , anyone can weigh 250 - 300 pounds with gear [ high or low amounts ] , lots of food , and heavy basic consistant training .[ I really truely believe this and have done it for many people that I have known over then years ] But when it is all said and done, will you look like like a champ in the mag ? Will you be healthy ? Truthfully feel proud and confident about how you look ? The answer is hell no ........So if you are training just just to be big or different for whatever reason you may want to take an honest accessment of why you need to feel superior over others physically .........training should be healthy , make you confident inside as well as out , and be a life long healthy pursuit .........Steroids are a trap plain and simple . You will never be as big or as strong without them[ think this guys before you do damage you cant reverse]..... ever see guys that are big users stop and shrink up ? Their whole identity is gone in a flash ...it is very sad to see ...When I was taking gear between 23 -25 I was just like some of the othe young bucks around here . Always chasing secrets and thinking everyone was doing something I wasn't [ I bugged Dante to death ].........But when I came back to the sport ,I realized that if I just worried about heavy ,consistant , progessive training ......along with correct diet and recovery .....I would have been so much better off ......There are no secrets fellas , what anyone chooses to do is thier business period .......... But I think what is most important as a bodybuilder , is to take a true honest accessment why you are training and what it is all for .......think!!!

One final word fellas ........it is my opinion that physiques started going backward in 93 , although they probably were at their best around 95 - 96 . I like the old classic physiques like marshall as well [ and it is true some of those physiques were built on less than 500 mgs week ] . But think about how much the physiques changed in the 90s ....why ? Simple ...synthetic gh became widely available , and got a whole lot cheaper , also insulin started to become common , along clen , igf, and synthol. The new drugs did change the look and the amount of people that could excell in the sport .......But the fact of the matter is and this is what guys need to understand . the same guys would still be champs without the drugs in the mix ............So risking your health / freedom , thinking that drugs or a guru can take you to happiness is just not reality I am afraid ........Drugs didn't make the champs of today or yesterday .......Their parents did... plain and simple ....................Drugs changed things for sure [but did they really honesly improve things?], and can make a joe average into one thick dude ........but truthfully , it is not drugs that make champs ........it is genetics..........I don't think it is worth all this back and forth negativity .......everyone has added alot here ......and I hope I did as well .......like I said .......there are no secrets ......just be smart .....think things through as to what you are doing and why ......then go for it in a reasonable intelligent manner .......Dont worry about keeping up with the jones's , just focus on doing what is right for you .......If you do that you will be a successful bber in whatever capicity that happens to be......
 
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A wise post from a wise man

Iabadman said:
I am not sure I am understanding this whole arguement going on here .........What is the issue with what people take or don't ? The bottom line is that physiques have progressed for several reasons . Better nutrition / supps , much smarter training [ most guys way over trained back then and didn't train to get stronger ] , and of course the use of things like GH , IGF -1 long 3 , and insulin . [ basically the same AS have been used since the late 70s .....so nothing new there ] As far as dosages are concerned , as someone that is still close to alot of top guys in the sport , I think Magnum said it best . Some guys take alittle and respond really well and other guys take a ton and respond well too . But there are far more guys that take gear that take gear and look like shit no matter how much they take and I think that is what Phil is getting at. The sport is genetic period .......not just your genetic framework either , but how you respond to the chemical side as well [ sad but true ] but if you think most top guys are taking over 1500 mgs a week you are mistaken . [ yes ,I know guys taking more 4 grams a week as well ......but most of the top 15 dont ] I was going to sponser a guy that won a couple of shows last year .......I know that 3 months before he turned pro he was using 900 mgs total and never had used gh ......but another guy from canada that I was going to help that is part of a big ad campaign this year was using 3 -4 grams a week....[ and this guy is really gifted ] Rory Liedelmeyer never used more than 1500 mgs ever[mostly about 1000mgs a week 3 weeks on 2 off ] .So what am I getting at ? Simple , anyone can weigh 250 - 300 pounds with gear [ high or low amounts ] , lots of food , and heavy basic consistant training .[ I really truely believe this and have done it for many people that I have known over then years ] But when it is all said and done, will you look like like a champ in the mag ? Will you be healthy ? Truthfully feel proud and confident about how you look ? The answer is hell no ........So if you are training just just to be big or different for whatever reason you may want to take an honest accessment of why you need to feel superior over others physically .........training should be healthy , make you confident inside as well as out , and be a life long healthy pursuit .........Steroids are a trap plain and simple . You will never be as big or as strong without them[ think this guys before you damage you cant reverse]..... ever see guys that are big users stop and shrink up ? Their whole identity is gone in a flash ...it is very sad to see ...When I was taking gear between 23 -25 I was just like some of the othe young bucks around here . Always chasing secrets and thinking everyone was doing something I wasn't [ I bugged Dante to death ].........But when I came back to the sport ,I realized that if I just worried about heavy ,consistant , progessive training ......along with correct diet and recovery .....I would have been so much better off ......There are no secrets fellas , what anyone chooses to do is thier business period .......... But I think what is most important as a bodybuilder , is to take a true honest accessment why you are training and what it is all for .......think!!!

One final word fellas ........it is my opinion that physiques started going backward in 93 , although they probably were at their best around 95 - 96 . I like the old classic physiques like marshall as well [ and it is true some of those physiques were built on less than 500 mgs week ] . But think about how much the physiques changed in the 90s ....why ? Simple ...synthetic gh became widely available , and got a whole lot cheaper , also insulin started to become common , along clen , igf, and synthol. The new drugs did change the look and the amount of people that could excell in the sport .......But the fact of the matter is and this is what guys need to understand . the same guys would still be champs without the drugs in the mix ............So risking your health / freedom , thinking that drugs or a guru can take you to happiness is just not reality I am afraid ........Drugs didn't make the champs of today or yesterday .......Their parents did... plain and simple ....................Drugs changed things for sure [but did they really honesly improve things?], and can make a joe average into one thick dude ........but truthfully , it is not drugs that make champs ........it is genetics..........I don't think it is worth all this back and forth negativity .......everyone has added alot here ......and I hope I did as well .......like I said .......there are no secrets ......just be smart .....think things through as to what you are doing and why ......then go for it in a reasonable intelligent manner .......Dont worry about keeping up with the jones's , just focus on doing what is right for you .......If you do that you will be a successful bber in whatever capicity that happens to be......

Sadly this kind of knowledge only comes with experience.
 
PHIL HERNON said:
he was also found naked underneath an overpass in Los Angeles talking about Satan and Jesus. He called me one time and went on a rampage about todays BBers and how they cant compare to Viator or Padilla. He was truly WAK!

AhAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Sad. I know. But funny!
 
Bout time you came on this thread IaBadman and drop some knowledge on us...lol

On a more serious note fellas I just recieved a phone call here at work from a friend who called to tell me that one of our very close friends had gone to the emergency room for kidney failure from the dosages of things he was taking as he was 6 weeks out from a show I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he was holding so much water and his ankles were swollen as hell at 9 weeks out which concearned me:( ........ My friend recieved a text from him on Sat night which he said his BP was 186/100:eek: .....We knew something was wrong and my friend contact him on sunday to talk to him about everything but it was too late things were already set in motion for his kidneys to shut down...

We had try to tell him time and time again that he shouldn't be taking the amounts he took for years but he never listened and would follow protocols he found on the "internet forums" :mad: I could never understand why he would do that as he is an intellegent guy. I hope he has learned his lesson from this as his GF is 5 months pregnant and he has so much to live for.:mad:
 
bulldog21 said:
Bout time you came on this thread IaBadman and drop some knowledge on us...lol

On a more serious note fellas I just recieved a phone call here at work from a friend who called to tell me that one of our very close friends had gone to the emergency room for kidney failure from the dosages of things he was taking as he was 6 weeks out from a show I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he was holding so much water and his ankles were swollen as hell at 9 weeks out which concearned me:( ........ My friend recieved a text from him on Sat night which he said his BP was 186/100:eek: .....We knew something was wrong and my friend contact him on sunday to talk to him about everything but it was too late things were already set in motion for his kidneys to shut down...

We had try to tell him time and time again that he shouldn't be taking the amounts he took for years but he never listened and would follow protocols he found on the "internet forums" :mad: I could never understand why he would do that as he is an intellegent guy. I hope he has learned his lesson from this as his GF is 5 months pregnant and he has so much to live for.:mad:



i wish your friend the best, he has a child coming that is going to need him. sad, very sad.
 
edge250 said:
i wish your friend the best, he has a child coming that is going to need him. sad, very sad.


Thanks man, I hope to find out more about his condition later on today, he lives about 3 hours from me so I can't go and see him, at least not until this weekend...

We tried and tried to tell him to slow down, focus on your diet and training...but he just wouldn't listen to me or my buddy..
 
Iabadman, your post in this thread should be REQUIRED reading for anyone considering AAS. Glad you shared with us on this one... As always, well said.

OTH
 
Awesome feedback Iabadman! Was TREN A available in the 70's? Seems that is a very popular drug today.

Iabadman said:
I am not sure I am understanding this whole arguement going on here .........What is the issue with what people take or don't ? The bottom line is that physiques have progressed for several reasons . Better nutrition / supps , much smarter training [ most guys way over trained back then and didn't train to get stronger ] , and of course the use of things like GH , IGF -1 long 3 , and insulin . [ basically the same AS have been used since the late 70s .....so nothing new there ] As far as dosages are concerned , as someone that is still close to alot of top guys in the sport , I think Magnum said it best . Some guys take alittle and respond really well and other guys take a ton and respond well too . But there are far more guys that take gear that take gear and look like shit no matter how much they take and I think that is what Phil is getting at. The sport is genetic period .......not just your genetic framework either , but how you respond to the chemical side as well [ sad but true ] but if you think most top guys are taking over 1500 mgs a week you are mistaken . [ yes ,I know guys taking more 4 grams a week as well ......but most of the top 15 dont ] I was going to sponser a guy that won a couple of shows last year .......I know that 3 months before he turned pro he was using 900 mgs total and never had used gh ......but another guy from canada that I was going to help that is part of a big ad campaign this year was using 3 -4 grams a week....[ and this guy is really gifted ] Rory Liedelmeyer never used more than 1500 mgs ever[mostly about 1000mgs a week 3 weeks on 2 off ] .So what am I getting at ? Simple , anyone can weigh 250 - 300 pounds with gear [ high or low amounts ] , lots of food , and heavy basic consistant training .[ I really truely believe this and have done it for many people that I have known over then years ] But when it is all said and done, will you look like like a champ in the mag ? Will you be healthy ? Truthfully feel proud and confident about how you look ? The answer is hell no ........So if you are training just just to be big or different for whatever reason you may want to take an honest accessment of why you need to feel superior over others physically .........training should be healthy , make you confident inside as well as out , and be a life long healthy pursuit .........Steroids are a trap plain and simple . You will never be as big or as strong without them[ think this guys before you do damage you cant reverse]..... ever see guys that are big users stop and shrink up ? Their whole identity is gone in a flash ...it is very sad to see ...When I was taking gear between 23 -25 I was just like some of the othe young bucks around here . Always chasing secrets and thinking everyone was doing something I wasn't [ I bugged Dante to death ].........But when I came back to the sport ,I realized that if I just worried about heavy ,consistant , progessive training ......along with correct diet and recovery .....I would have been so much better off ......There are no secrets fellas , what anyone chooses to do is thier business period .......... But I think what is most important as a bodybuilder , is to take a true honest accessment why you are training and what it is all for .......think!!!

One final word fellas ........it is my opinion that physiques started going backward in 93 , although they probably were at their best around 95 - 96 . I like the old classic physiques like marshall as well [ and it is true some of those physiques were built on less than 500 mgs week ] . But think about how much the physiques changed in the 90s ....why ? Simple ...synthetic gh became widely available , and got a whole lot cheaper , also insulin started to become common , along clen , igf, and synthol. The new drugs did change the look and the amount of people that could excell in the sport .......But the fact of the matter is and this is what guys need to understand . the same guys would still be champs without the drugs in the mix ............So risking your health / freedom , thinking that drugs or a guru can take you to happiness is just not reality I am afraid ........Drugs didn't make the champs of today or yesterday .......Their parents did... plain and simple ....................Drugs changed things for sure [but did they really honesly improve things?], and can make a joe average into one thick dude ........but truthfully , it is not drugs that make champs ........it is genetics..........I don't think it is worth all this back and forth negativity .......everyone has added alot here ......and I hope I did as well .......like I said .......there are no secrets ......just be smart .....think things through as to what you are doing and why ......then go for it in a reasonable intelligent manner .......Dont worry about keeping up with the jones's , just focus on doing what is right for you .......If you do that you will be a successful bber in whatever capicity that happens to be......
 
Thanks guys for the positive feedback on my words.........I appreciate the respect......

Yes .......tren was around in the 70s and it was big with the europeans . Many in the form of parabolin of finaject [ a strong vet version ] .....when negma the company that made parabolin stopped making it in the early 90s it became one of the most counterfited steroids for along time . In fact about the time this happened I had a european pro basketball player that was a good friend buy me all he could find and bring it back for me . [ he brought me back thounds of amps ]

And IMO opinion gh alot to do with destroying bbing [ and it let to the drug craze and everyone trying sorts of crazy crap to keep up]. I just don't like the look it brings......most of the gains made are water weight ......it thickens the skin ....gives these guys huge heads and hands overtime [ take a look at Jay cutler's or Dexter's hands or heads for guys under 5'8 it is ugly and crazy ] waist lines like it or not ,are 38 to 42 in honest terms for the large men of today compared to 33 - 34 of yester year..........All gh does is saturate the tissues with excess water and thicken the skin ........think about it why are guys lean in the off season with veins and abs but still 40 pounds over their contest weight ? Do you think that is healthy ? Is that water real muscle tissue ? Why does everyone need a prep guy these days ? Simple..... water management ........Why are there some many guys tearing muscles the last 10 - 15 years .....when before it was unheard of .......hmmm......think about it ......Am I really that far off? ....Now .....1 or 2 iu s every other day can really help an aging guy and might actually be thereputic .......but the 4 plus iu's that are used by bbers is just throwing off one's own endoctorine system off even more than the gear already is and is just turning these guys into water balloons.........think about it ,is conditioning better than it was in the late 70s or 80s .......I think not .....maybe guys have glutes now ....but not the quality seperation or thin skin like the used to [ and guys were dieting on deca and d-bol back then ] Gh especially guys using the higher end 6 plus ius is not an asset to these guys physiques ........and guys aren't even thinking about what I am saying it .....they are just doing it because eveyone else is .......sad but true ........And these kids taking insulin , igf , MGF .....it is insanity in my eyes .......how do you you know what this stuff is going to do to you in 10 - 20 years.....dont you kids realize if you are predisposed to cancer you are speeding it up ten fold ......injecting growth factors is russin roulete IMO[ something people selling will never tell you ] ......do you think you could be spending your money more wisely ?......shoot, if you are say 23 and you are spending say 300 or 400 bucks a months on stuff .......what if you took that money and invested it in a roth IRA or a long term mutual fund ......if you did that every month .....by 45 - 50 you could retire a millionare even if you never make big money .........think about it ......is it worth the risk or the cash just to be the big guy in the gym ? Am I against gear .......hell no ......it can be used safely and intelligently for sure .......but I am against being reckless ......not asking yourself realistic questions and being true with yourself ........would you rather retire at 45 healthy and happy or be the big guy in the gym .......If you are genetically gifted or are a top athlete go ahead see how far you can take your potential .......but if you are average or just above .....I am just saying ask yourself questions that is all ......too many guys lie to themselves .......if you cant win a local show with out gear then my friend you aren't blessed .......I had kid tell me I told him need gear so he could play D -1 baseball .......I said if he needed gear to play at level then he was wasting his time .........what happened to the days of physical culture , being happy with what you have , and supporting your brothers in iron ? I am 36 ,and I feel like some 70 year old guy preaching about the evils of the world .......But guys I care about you all .........and it is time some one made you ask some questions and take stock of your selves ........why are you taking drugs ? Think about it .......Should really be taking them ? Are you being smart ? Or could you be doing better for yourself , friends , and families ?
 
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Thanks for your posts, Iabadman. They are definitely among the best on this board.
 
Great post Iabadman!!

I think that the mentality of our country is to do things the easy way and we want everything now! But instead hard work, time, and discipline is what is needed. Everyone wants things to be easy...
 
Iab, the thing about GH causing an ugly look is so true. I was just looking at the pics from the North Americans at graphicmuscle and what strikes me is that guys are lean, especially glutes, yet still soft. They don't have the crisp look in most cases.

BTW, do you really think the GH causes the hands and skull to grow? Is it not possible that it's water retention in muscles of the skull etc? I mean, the comment about Jay's or Dexter's skulls would have been ridiculed if it came from anyone but you. This has been debated on many forums and all the vets always say it's a bunch of BS that GH causes acromegalic features in normal people. There was just a thread here about some claim about GH causing teeth separation and it was shot down by most.
 
KillerStack said:
There was just a thread here about some claim about GH causing teeth separation and it was shot down by most.

The thread that was brought up you are taking out of context. The thread stated that a guy claimed that young kids were doing GH because more and more kids were getting braces... Which of course is a crock of shit.
 
As far as Gh goes ......Yes , I believe gh over long term use and in high doses causes size increases in the head , hands, feet [ Kevin Leverone told told me he went up two shoe sizes ] , and the jaw .........I am just calling them like I see them .....do I have scientifc proof ? no ,I do not .....but I can tell you to look at the pics , of jay , ronnie , dex , gunter , gustavo ......ect....thier heads and hands are all huge.....I have met and shook hands with all of them ......they are certainly not in proportion to other men of their heights[ Jay had the thickest hands I have ever shook and remember I played two years of pro football so i been arounnd huge guys ....shoot, i have 4 400lb men that work for me right now and they are all 6 4 or taller and their hands arent as thick as jay's and he is lucky to be 5 8 ]........also go to the early 90s look at pics of a young jay Culter , Ronnie , or chris cormier .......all were good looking guys with normal sized heads ......now look at them .....they look deformed .....tell me what it is besides the gh ? [ do the research ....you will see I ain't bsing ] As far as the front teeth spreading ......I have seen this with black guys only for some reason [ Lee haney was the first ...... he was one of the first big users of gh .....I collect old mags ...when he won the teen nationals he didnt have the gap in his front teeth .....then several years later when he won the nationals he did .....hmmm.......same with robert hatch 3 rd in the USA this year.....things that make you go hmm ] Gh has done nothing for our sport but turn guys into water balloons with big ass heads / hands.......sad but true ......think.... has it really made guys better in the long run ......plus it really risky for guys that might be carrying the cancer gene[ ie Denis newman ] This is something nobody ever talks about , but should be .........better ways to be spending your money IMO ........maybe I am wrong ....but I have seen this developing for years up close and personal.......I guess I know what I know you can say ......
 
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Look what gh abuse did to Federov........he was a heck of a bber at a young age .....now he he is a complete mess with torn muscles and a bloated stomach ..........look at what is happening to Gustavo and Jay trying to catch up to Ronnie ......even Ronnie looked way better at 255 or 260 .....How about paulumo or Kovas ? what made them into the messes that they have become? Or all of the third tear europeans ?[ heiko .....ect ....] this guys ruined nice physiques ..........And fellas in wasn't roids that did that shit .......it was the gowth factors [ or the abuse of I should say ] .......these drugs ruined our sport and took the beauty out of it ..........it is not a right away type of thing either ....it is usually after two or three years of abuse that I see things start to change for the worse ..........
 
Iabadman, your posts are excellent man, and I believe you are very correct in what you say-i dont think being a pro or having pro size is so amazing like everyone thinks it is. Its a major risk of health and money, that i for one would not do to get there-having an awesome body that I can maintain thro life is awesome for me-
 
Kaiser said:
The thread that was brought up you are taking out of context. The thread stated that a guy claimed that young kids were doing GH because more and more kids were getting braces... Which of course is a crock of shit.
Okay. I read "young olympic athletes" as being adults. Didn't see the interview LATS talked about but when I did a search on google the GH/braces debate concerned Olympic track athletes such as Carl Lewis.
 
Nice perspective mr E .........now look guys don't think that I know it all or I am sitting back and judging any of you .......but I have been around this sport and several others at an even higher level .......I am just sharing my thoughts , feeling , observations , and expireniences with you guys because i honestly care about the guys on this board and i want them to think and do what is best for them in the long run .........Guys Like Dante , Phil , massive G , Big A , and magnum ........are far more involved in the sport than I am currantly ....And are certainly more knowlegable ........I am just get tired of seeing people going down the wrong path and no one stepping up and challenging them to think .......I made my mistakes but i grew , learned , and changed ..........nothing sader than the 50 year bber ......broke ...several failed relationships....still juicing [ because he has nothing else ] ......and he has no health insurence ....and the health problems are just begining to surfice..........I personally know at least 20 guys like this and it is sad .......Ask Phil if he would do it all over again if he could or if he knows guys like I am mentioning ..........the reality of the drugs , the lifestyle , ect.......is just not what most of you think and that is a fact.......most have the mentality if I can just look like this ,my life will be better .....right ? you will get the chicks you want ? make some cash ....people will like you or respect you .....right ? The fact is, that this is all bs ..... big muscles won't make you a happier better person .........and most people will look down on you as drug abusing little dick show off or wanna be tough guy ........sad but true ..........tell me guys ......am I lying ? The reality is harsh and it hurts .....but look around .......think about what I have been saying here ......then make some serious decisions .......most of you need to do what I have been asking and fast ......
 
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