question for shelby/kal regarding "the healthy bodybuilder"

[DK0223]

I absolutely agree. I had a biochem course that delved deep into kidney function, you can read all the studies you want about how high protein consumption is OK for people with healthy kidneys, but there is no doubt in my mind that dealing with nitrogenous waste is severely taxing to the kidneys. Consider also the addition stress they may be under from other sources in bodybuilders.

I'm a big fan of adjust total protein intake based on BUN levels also.



Yes it is, Shelby and I put together a lot of good info in this book, but the nutrition section is rather small. Nutrition is a subject that is way too broad for the scope of this book. Shelby does have other books that delve deeper into nutrition though, I have read them and learned from them.

kal do you have a certain range for bun you look for to tell if protein intake is too high? in my labs they have a ref range of 8-21 mg/dl for bun. my last set of labs had me at 13...so according to them im in range, therefore im guessing im not over eating on protein?

 

[DK0223]

also while we're on the topic of protein/digestion of protein.... in the book you mention carbs as being protein sparing, but what about fat? i know john meadows is an advocate of protein/fat>carbs in his diets.

if one were to only eat one other macro with their protein which is more protein sparing? i know we should strive for all 3 macros in each meal, but still

 

[Kaladryn]

also while we're on the topic of protein/digestion of protein.... in the book you mention carbs as being protein sparing, but what about fat? i know john meadows is an advocate of protein/fat>carbs in his diets.

if one were to only eat one other macro with their protein which is more protein sparing? i know we should strive for all 3 macros in each meal, but still

Excellent question. JM may be correct, I personally find myself constantly under estimating the importance of fat. There are studies showing that protein is much more beneficial to slowing the absorption of carbohydrate than fat, but that doesn't mean fat isn't more important after absorption. I do know one of the biggest mistakes I have made is to take my fat too low. Carbs are anabolic though, fat isn't as much.

A point made in the book is, whenever you raise one macro, you lower the other. So while more fat is good to a point, it also means you must lower carbs (assuming protein is static). So you are looking for a balance to get the maximum benefit from each without taking one too low and losing that benefit.

I don't think you will find an answer to this question other than being consistent and trying what works for you over a longish period of time.

 

[Kaladryn]

kal do you have a certain range for bun you look for to tell if protein intake is too high? in my labs they have a ref range of 8-21 mg/dl for bun. my last set of labs had me at 13...so according to them im in range, therefore im guessing im not over eating on protein?

I like to keep my BUN in the high end of the normal range but not outside the normal range. Remember hydration will greatly effect BUN greatly, and not just how much you drank that day or the day before, you need to stay constantly hydrated to keep BUN clearance at a maximum.

 

[DK0223]

Excellent question. JM may be correct, I personally find myself constantly under estimating the importance of fat. There are studies showing that protein is much more beneficial to slowing the absorption of carbohydrate than fat, but that doesn't mean fat isn't more important after absorption. I do know one of the biggest mistakes I have made is to take my fat too low. Carbs are anabolic though, fat isn't as much.

A point made in the book is, whenever you raise one macro, you lower the other. So while more fat is good to a point, it also means you must lower carbs (assuming protein is static). So you are looking for a balance to get the maximum benefit from each without taking one too low and losing that benefit.

I don't think you will find an answer to this question other than being consistent and trying what works for you over a longish period of time.

touche. although one would think fat is more protein sparing, hence the keto diets that many like to use for fat loss. not to mention it seems many will eat protein with fat, rather than with carbs. assuming they arent eating all three at once in a meal of course

 

[vveronicasman]

peanut butter and peanuts in general, contain an alfatoxin (sp? thatis toxic to the liver. acne can def be as by liver stress....stopped eating it period, and havent broken out in years.

 

[Kaladryn]

touche. although one would think fat is more protein sparing, hence the keto diets that many like to use for fat loss. not to mention it seems many will eat protein with fat, rather than with carbs. assuming they arent eating all three at once in a meal of course

remember ketosis is an entirely different animal, almost all the rules change in ketosis

 

[wannagetbig]

Very informative thread

Kal- I'm interested in your hypothetical which explains the effect of the rate of digestion of food (whether that be protein or carbs) has on fat gain

I've always have a good serving of carbs in my last meal within an hour before bed (white and sweet potato) around 50 - 80 grams (and I eat carbs in all my meals) - but I always have a huge serving of veggies with it - and I haven't gained any fat (actually have lost a bit since increasing the intensity of my

So I guess the veggies are really slowing the digestion of my meal for the 6-7 hours that I sleep?

 

[Kaladryn]

Very informative thread

Kal- I'm interested in your hypothetical which explains the effect of the rate of digestion of food (whether that be protein or carbs) has on fat gain

I've always have a good serving of carbs in my last meal within an hour before bed (white and sweet potato) around 50 - 80 grams (and I eat carbs in all my meals) - but I always have a huge serving of veggies with it - and I haven't gained any fat (actually have lost a bit since increasing the intensity of my

So I guess the veggies are really slowing the digestion of my meal for the 6-7 hours that I sleep?

I eat carbs before bed also, usually around 30-40g, but it varies. There is usually room for carb storage, either as liver glycogen or as muscle glycogen. Plus you are burning some carbs even as you sleep, so those carbs won't be stored as fat either. Only carbs beyond storage capacity will be stored as fat.

When you talk about diet theory it doesn't necessarily apply to the big picture. You could be gaining gaining fat from those carbs before bed, but your overall fat burning could be equal to the gain, or exceed the gain, and you still be getting leaner.

The quote from the book being discussed here was part of a bullet list of FACTORS that can apply, not any kind of rule, and is really out of context by itself. blackstang is good at that