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Question: GH and Blood Glucose levels

pumpkinhead

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Any of you vets in here what effect GH has on blood glucose levels?

Long story short, A buddy of mine decided to go natural, but stay on GH for the anti-aging benefits. Was doing blood work to see how his hormone levels were recovering after 6 months clean( test and estrogen low as hell btw). At any rate , after fasting 12 hours, noticed his blood glucose was 125. I asked him if he did take his GH shot in the morning before the blood test and he said yes, I was not sure so I told him I would ask you guys, but I thought I remembered something about GH supressing insuling secretion in the body. In turn, this would of course cause higher glucose levels in the blood, so I would think.

Opinions anyone?
 

TheOtherOne55

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Basic GH knowledge. GH makes you more insulin resistant. That was a huge reason why insulin became a BBing drug, to lower BG levels. Do you happen to know how much GH your buddy is running? To have THAT high of a reading he must be dosing pretty high....everyone's diff though.
 

pumpkinhead

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Basic GH knowledge. GH makes you more insulin resistant. That was a huge reason why insulin became a BBing drug, to lower BG levels. Do you happen to know how much GH your buddy is running? To have THAT high of a reading he must be dosing pretty high....everyone's diff though.

He is taking 2iu AM, 2iu PM.... hmmmm maybe he is diabetic? lol
 

NEMSZ

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I was taking Metformin when I was on GH and I remember when I got blood work my fasting blood sugar was around 80...

Without any GH or Metformin my fasting blood sugar is regularly around 60-65, lowest it’s been is 59 in my most recent test..

What is your buddy’s Glycohemoglobin number? 125 sounds pretty damn high to me too lol is he eating cake and ice cream every night?

If I were him I’d come off the GH for a bit, get everything tested after a few weeks clean like GlycoHemo, Glucose, and insulin levels... Then if everything goes back to normal ranges again, keep a clean diet for the most part and add in Metformin with GH @ 2iu then get tested again and evaluate going back up to 4iu...

Also, another question, why staying on GH for anti aging but completely coming off Test? I would never in my life come off TRT again, it was the worst time of life, body aches, depression, fatigue, lack of sex drive, lack of any sort of motivation for anything... Fuck that lol
 

pumpkinhead

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I was taking Metformin when I was on GH and I remember when I got blood work my fasting blood sugar was around 80...

Without any GH or Metformin my fasting blood sugar is regularly around 60-65, lowest it’s been is 59 in my most recent test..

What is your buddy’s Glycohemoglobin number? 125 sounds pretty damn high to me too lol is he eating cake and ice cream every night?

If I were him I’d come off the GH for a bit, get everything tested after a few weeks clean like GlycoHemo, Glucose, and insulin levels... Then if everything goes back to normal ranges again, keep a clean diet for the most part and add in Metformin with GH @ 2iu then get tested again and evaluate going back up to 4iu...

Also, another question, why staying on GH for anti aging but completely coming off Test? I would never in my life come off TRT again, it was the worst time of life, body aches, depression, fatigue, lack of sex drive, lack of any sort of motivation for anything... Fuck that lol


Was waiting on a text back from him, No Glycohemoglobin test was done. I think the GH he is on is dosed pretty high, says he is taking 4iu total per day, but hell that could be higher. I told him to back down to 2IU. He is going to get glucose re-tested in 6 weeks, along with some other test A1C, etc.... I told him to come off all GH completely, 3 weeks out so we can find out if it is diabetic issues or not.

As for comming off completely, he wanted to see if his body would "reboot" after all these years. After seeing his labs, I highly doubt that. I am sure he will go on TRT in the near future when he gets fed up with this crap.

Thanks For the input.
 

Rex Feral

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Was waiting on a text back from him, No Glycohemoglobin test was done. I think the GH he is on is dosed pretty high, says he is taking 4iu total per day, but hell that could be higher. I told him to back down to 2IU. He is going to get glucose re-tested in 6 weeks, along with some other test A1C, etc.... I told him to come off all GH completely, 3 weeks out so we can find out if it is diabetic issues or not.

As for comming off completely, he wanted to see if his body would "reboot" after all these years. After seeing his labs, I highly doubt that. I am sure he will go on TRT in the near future when he gets fed up with this crap.

Thanks For the input.

Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour. A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this. But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels. If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.

Rex.
 

MyNameIsJeff

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"Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour.

A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this.

But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels.

If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.

Rex."

Great post, thanks. Although readability could be much improved by breaking the text up into paragraphs, as above.
 

warlock

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Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour. A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this. But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels. If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.

Rex.

Great post. Lots of good info everyone should read. As to the NPH as a basal insulin, is it best injected once a day as in AM? Or is it suggested to be split up into AM and PM shots? Does NPH raise IGF-1 levels as much as Lantus?
 

pumpkinhead

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Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour. A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this. But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels. If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.

Rex.


GREAT POST man!!! thanks....going to copy and paste and give this to him.
 

Cv215

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Thanks for the info rex. I have been using a number of glucose meters for years. I usually just buy whatever is the cheapest for like 25 bucks. I had no idea that they can vary in accuracy like that. I'll look into the one you suggested.
 

madg

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"Tell him he needs to buy a glucose monitor to begin testing at home. The most accurate is the Bayer Contour. I use the Next One personally. You can Google "glucometer accuracy study" for the data if interested. Strips can be costly. Best place to buy them is eBay. The Contour strips have been tested for accuracy I believe it was 2 years post expiration but without a doubt, they are good for 1 year post expire. So your best deal by far for frequent testing is to buy expired strips on eBay. You can also Google for the accuracy testing study. If you don't mind throwing money down the drain buy them wherever. Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes. Personally, I would only use Bayer Contour.

A one time glucose reading doesn't tell the whole story, but he is definitely likely to have impaired glucose tolerance secondary to exogenous GH. It's something me and really almost everyone frankly who has used GH for any decent period of time at high enough dose has had to deal with. He could be experiencing a pronounced dawn effect which can be exacerbated by fasting and stimulants. This is what was happening to me. Google dawn effect if you don't know what I'm talking about. I find this is extremely common with GH. In my case, A1C was fine, postprandial glucose (1-2h post-meal) later in the day was also fine. Glucose was also fine upon waking 6-8h fasted, though higher vs no exogenous GH still under 100 or right at it. Fasting and stims would increase it to pre-diabetes levels (101-125). Research catecholamines and glucose if you don't know what I'm saying. Natural catecholamines are the reason for the dawn effect and it's exacerbated with caffeine, ephedrine, modafinil, etc. I wouldn't say this is the same as DMT2 in an obese sedentary person though it does meet the diagnostic criteria for DMT2. In my experience, it won't usually get worse than this.

But it is glucose intolerance and it does need to be addressed either through cessation of GH or use of metformin, insulin, berberine, gymnema and Cinsulin. In his particular case since he doesn't compete or even take AAS/T cessation is the only logical course. Once glucose has stabilized, he can resume at 2 IU qhs 5d qwk, increasing to a max of 4-5 IU qhs 5d qwk after adding metformin XR at 2gm qd if glucose levels allow. I'd also add berberine at 1200-1500 mg qd, gymnema at 400-500mg, Cinsulin at 500mg. I'd not resume the a.m. dose. The 2 days off GH should be on days off training. It's entirely possible that his glucose upon waking 8h fasted was much closer to 100, then he used GH, drank some coffee, fasted longer then his body dumped glucose from the liver because it felt like it needed glucose and had the catecholamines available to make it happen. Also worse if he didn't train the night before which he shouldn't be doing due to liver enzyme levels.

If you're a competitive bodybuilder and experiencing this and don't want to get off GH just use insulin. Anyone on GH I believe should have insulin on hand to manage glucose as needed. Go to Walmart and buy an NPH and an R for $25 each. If you want to waste your money on Lantus, Levemir, Humalog, etc that's your business. Studies shave shown clearly that NPH is equally or more efficacious as basal insulin as Lantus, Levemir, etc. Same for R vs log. If you have high fasting glucose secondary to GH on metformin, add NPH qhs on GH days starting at 10 iu and titrate to response, increasing by 5iu, measured by your Contour. Add R a.m. until you get your basal bedtime dose adjusted and thereafter preprandial as needed if postprandial glucose becomes an issue. You should not spike more than 140 postprandial. Using insulin to control glucose on GH is much better than allowing elevated glucose. If you fear it, GH use may not be for you. The same way people say have anti E on hand if needed for T/AAS, you should probably initiate metformin regardless if on GH and have insulin on hand with a Contour monitor that you use multiple times per day. This will allow you to assess the dawn effect, postprandial glucose, etc. If you're on GH at 4IU or greater qd and haven't had blood work 12h fasted on stims, don't monitor at home and are not on metformin, it is highly probable that you are no different than this guy with the 125 fasted x 12h. Also, this guy likely needs TRT and is just being stupid. LMK if you have questions.

Rex."

Great post, thanks. Although readability could be much improved by breaking the text up into paragraphs, as above.

Bayer contour never fails ! I get it free from pharmacys here

Hope your well Rex , thanks for the knowledge , respect
 

Dugbet

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Be very careful which monitor you use, many are next to useless for pre-diabetes.

How is this possible? Couldn't diabetics make dangerous mistakes due to inaccurate measurement? Isn't this a medical device?
 

totalrecomp

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How is this possible? Couldn't diabetics make dangerous mistakes due to inaccurate measurement? Isn't this a medical device?

Notice he said pre-diabetes. It would not surprise me if they were more accurate when reading higher numbers. For instance accurate when BG is between 125-300 vs 70-125. I am basing this on pulse oximeters which become inaccurate when SpO2 drops below 70%. I may be completely wrong but??? Also if you have ever had a scale that was accurate to say 1.00g and you wish to weigh out say 100mg you are better off putting say 5g of creatine on there and then adding 100mg of caffeine vs trying to weigh just the 100mg.
 

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