question on minimal AAS usage and competing

[Gunsmith]

So im thinking that this next year I'm going to take a decient break from AAS usage , try to grow some naturaly , then for contest prep take a mild cycle like 400mg/wk test , 200mg/wk deca and maybe 20-30mg/ed winstrol while dieting and doing the cardio , to possibly stop any size loss or actualy grow into a show while getting leaner.

Is this a decient way to cut back on the drug usage or would using AAS during the off season then going clean through the contest prep be a better way to go. Seems to me that being off while doing a prep would lead to losing some size

 

[Medic08]

How many weeks of the year are you normally on? I would think that if your diet is solid and you don't rely on tons of gear to grow then you shouldn't lose to much while off. I like the idea of growing into a show though just like levrone did.

 

[Salzberger]

I think that we've seen a lot of these gow into the show threads and it is honestly, much much more motivating thatn dieting down from inflated levels and losing a rep or 2 every week. Much better to recomp and grow into the contest IMO... getting stronger is great motivation to keep dieting.

 

[Gunsmith]

Well for the last few years I've done 2 cycle a year generaly lasting 10-12 weeks ,last year i did a long cycle at some pretty high doses , this year I'm about 12 weeks into a 16-17 week cycle , doses are much lower than last year and results are much better so far thanks to proper nutrition.

I was thinking about taking a break from Auguast to late April next year from any AAS , maybe try some DC style training. I'm not looking to get much bigger , just want to bring my chest up some and get my over all conditioning alot better so bulking and getting fat shoulden't be that big of an issue. I'd like to come in for a couple shows next year close to the same weight but better conditioned so I'm not looking to add 10lb of muscle in a year maybe 3-5 of quality size and I think with proper nutrition and training that is not a difficult number to reach

 

[Salzberger]

Well for the last few years I've done 2 cycle a year generaly lasting 10-12 weeks ,last year i did a long cycle at some pretty high doses , this year I'm about 12 weeks into a 16-17 week cycle , doses are much lower than last year and results are much better so far thanks to proper nutrition.

I was thinking about taking a break from Auguast to late April next year from any AAS , maybe try some DC style training. I'm not looking to get much bigger , just want to bring my chest up some and get my over all conditioning alot better so bulking and getting fat shoulden't be that big of an issue. I'd like to come in for a couple shows next year close to the same weight but better conditioned so I'm not looking to add 10lb of muscle in a year maybe 3-5 of quality size and I think with proper nutrition and training that is not a difficult number to reach

I don;t know how you are going to add any size regardless of what you eat during that off window... in my experience, it just isn't possible if one is carrying any amount of size. That entire period is spent in damage control.

 

[Youngguns]

You wont grow off cycle, but your body will recover and your immune system sure will like that it is not compromised anymore.

 

[oldfella]

Stay on OFF SEASON and up the dose for contest prep. I guess many here call it blasting and cruising, in the old days we called it contest prep.

 

[buselmo]

go off... lose size... get really lean (below 10%), then get on and start your prep... you'll gain back all the muscle you lost in about 4 weeks if you'r diet and training are on par... and you'll drop some points off the fat percentage... once you're at the size you were at previously before going off, then diet down some more and get down to contest level lean.

to think that you can gain some size while going off is just rediculous...
the only way you can do that is if you were one of those people who train like idiots, think that they don't have to eat or diet to gain size, and use gear and nothing happens... then you can gain size if you go off and do it right ... otherwise, first cycle means you went above your natural limit.

 

[Gunsmith]

go off... lose size... get really lean (below 10%), then get on and start your prep... you'll gain back all the muscle you lost in about 4 weeks if you'r diet and training are on par... and you'll drop some points off the fat percentage... once you're at the size you were at previously before going off, then diet down some more and get down to contest level lean.

to think that you can gain some size while going off is just rediculous...
the only way you can do that is if you were one of those people who train like idiots, think that they don't have to eat or diet to gain size, and use gear and nothing happens... then you can gain size if you go off and do it right ... otherwise, first cycle means you went above your natural limit.

Very good points , so to touch on what oldfella , said , about the blast and cruise idea , what would be a minimum does that one could grow or at least maintain their current size? say 200mg/wk test with 2iu/ed HGH ??. Again i'm not looking to ad a ton of weight or size just maintain maybe bring up lagging body parts but have the conditioning much better next year.

I'm just trying to find a way to do it as healthy as possible , I don't think running test at 400mg/wk for 10 weeks (cruise) then blasting for 8-10 weeks at 1000mg/ed back and for is a very healthy way to live

 

[buselmo]

Very good points , so to touch on what oldfella , said , about the blast and cruise idea , what would be a minimum does that one could grow or at least maintain their current size? say 200mg/wk test with 2iu/ed HGH ??. Again i'm not looking to ad a ton of weight or size just maintain maybe bring up lagging body parts but have the conditioning much better next year.

I'm just trying to find a way to do it as healthy as possible , I don't think running test at 400mg/wk for 10 weeks (cruise) then blasting for 8-10 weeks at 1000mg/ed back and for is a very healthy way to live

no one can ever answer that question or even come close... this all depends on how you respond to hormones... but i can tell you that if you can maintain your mass on as little as 200 mg per week, you don't have that much mass to begin with... and blasting on 500 mg would be more than enough.

what you should understand is that those people who can maintain their mass for 2-3 months during a cruise with only 250 mg ALREADY have a shit ton of test built up in their system if they had been blasting for a while and didn't come off... this amount of test takes weeks or months to go down... that 250 mg per week he's maintaining on isn't all that's in his system.

another thing to keep in mind... maintaining your mass doesn't need as much gear as you would if you were trying to build mass. i'm not talking about dieting down, i'm talking about maintenance. building back the mass you had also doesn't even come close to the amount you need to build new mass.

I would say that you should stick to a level that is considered "on" if you are going to do this... 200 mg and 2 iu of gh isn't a good idea and i'd consider it a waste of time unless that's what your doctor wants you to be on.
if you haven't been over 1 gram of gear before... i'd say go with 500-700 mg total... that should be enough to gain back your lean mass and start shedding fat afterwards with minimal muscle loss...

and just an opinion here... i think 2 iu of gh is just a waste and it'll burn a hole in your pocket without anything to show for it... if it's for "anti-aging" purposes... yeah... no problem... if you're old enough... other than that... either go +4iu or don't do it at all...

and my advice is just save your money and buy you GF or wife a gift, while having left a lot of money left over to buy you something nice too

 

[Silencer]

Gunsmith -- what's your height/weight?

At 6', 210 I can maintain being lean (8%) at 375mg/week. But like buselmo said, I'm not carrying around a shitload of muscle.

To give you an idea, at 125mg/week, my blood levels of total test reach just over 1,000ng/dl. Normal "natural" levels are 300-1,200, and mine are normally at 350ng. At 500mg/week, they are between 2,800-3,000. At 750mg I reach 3,500+. I grow nicely at 500, great at 750, and turn into a water balloon at 1g. Of course, everyone is different, but just some data points for you.

 

[dellu5]

hello

Hello Everyone! How is everyone doing??? **broken link removed**

 

[Johnny Smiles]

no one can ever answer that question or even come close... this all depends on how you respond to hormones... but i can tell you that if you can maintain your mass on as little as 200 mg per week, you don't have that much mass to begin with... and blasting on 500 mg would be more than enough.

what you should understand is that those people who can maintain their mass for 2-3 months during a cruise with only 250 mg ALREADY have a shit ton of test built up in their system if they had been blasting for a while and didn't come off... this amount of test takes weeks or months to go down... that 250 mg per week he's maintaining on isn't all that's in his system.

another thing to keep in mind... maintaining your mass doesn't need as much gear as you would if you were trying to build mass. i'm not talking about dieting down, i'm talking about maintenance. building back the mass you had also doesn't even come close to the amount you need to build new mass.

I would say that you should stick to a level that is considered "on" if you are going to do this... 200 mg and 2 iu of gh isn't a good idea and i'd consider it a waste of time unless that's what your doctor wants you to be on.
if you haven't been over 1 gram of gear before... i'd say go with 500-700 mg total... that should be enough to gain back your lean mass and start shedding fat afterwards with minimal muscle loss...

and just an opinion here... i think 2 iu of gh is just a waste and it'll burn a hole in your pocket without anything to show for it... if it's for "anti-aging" purposes... yeah... no problem... if you're old enough... other than that... either go +4iu or don't do it at all...

and my advice is just save your money and buy you GF or wife a gift, while having left a lot of money left over to buy you something nice too

thats solid advice right there.
-JS

 

[Gunsmith]

Gunsmith -- what's your height/weight?

At 6', 210 I can maintain being lean (8%) at 375mg/week. But like buselmo said, I'm not carrying around a shitload of muscle.

To give you an idea, at 125mg/week, my blood levels of total test reach just over 1,000ng/dl. Normal "natural" levels are 300-1,200, and mine are normally at 350ng. At 500mg/week, they are between 2,800-3,000. At 750mg I reach 3,500+. I grow nicely at 500, great at 750, and turn into a water balloon at 1g. Of course, everyone is different, but just some data points for you.

I'm 33yrs old , 6'2" , 260lbs , BF 8-9% via calipers two weeks ago done by an IFBB figure competitor and judge who is a trainer , I'm currently dieting for a show and running test at 700mg-wk with masteron at 300mg/wk and anavar at 50mg/ed , started Arimdex 2 weeks ago at .5mg/ed , been running proviron at 50mg/ed for last 6 weeks , I'm steadly getting stronger and leaner seemingly day by day , i'm not gonna get out of my weight class so haven't been tracking my body weight much , about once a month and the weight is dropping at about 4-5lbs per month.

I ran a pretty heavy and long cycle last year , 750mg/wk sustano for 8 weeks then upped it to 1250mg/wk for another 10 wks , stacked with tren at 350mg/wk for 12 wks and oral winstrol at 75mg/ed for 8 wks. Diet was awfull , very low cals basicaly only comming from protein (1200-900cals/ed)as a desperation to diet down for a show. I ended up getting sick as hell and running my body into the dirt.

I got healthy , hired a trainer and got back to as lean as i was during the last cycle being totaly clean this time , then started my cycle with my contest prep and its been rocking ever since. I'm just looking to keep the muscle I have now and continute to work on my conditioning through the off season , Idealy I'd like to not get back above 10% BF so that next year the diet and cardio doesn't need to be as extream and possible be able to use less drugs and come to show in better conditioning

 

[chris250]

I'm 33yrs old , 6'2" , 260lbs , BF 8-9% via calipers two weeks ago done by an IFBB figure competitor and judge who is a trainer , I'm currently dieting for a show and running test at 700mg-wk with masteron at 300mg/wk and anavar at 50mg/ed , started Arimdex 2 weeks ago at .5mg/ed , been running proviron at 50mg/ed for last 6 weeks , I'm steadly getting stronger and leaner seemingly day by day , i'm not gonna get out of my weight class so haven't been tracking my body weight much , about once a month and the weight is dropping at about 4-5lbs per month.

I ran a pretty heavy and long cycle last year , 750mg/wk sustano for 8 weeks then upped it to 1250mg/wk for another 10 wks , stacked with tren at 350mg/wk for 12 wks and oral winstrol at 75mg/ed for 8 wks. Diet was awfull , very low cals basicaly only comming from protein (1200-900cals/ed)as a desperation to diet down for a show. I ended up getting sick as hell and running my body into the dirt.

I got healthy , hired a trainer and got back to as lean as i was during the last cycle being totaly clean this time , then started my cycle with my contest prep and its been rocking ever since. I'm just looking to keep the muscle I have now and continute to work on my conditioning through the off season , Idealy I'd like to not get back above 10% BF so that next year the diet and cardio doesn't need to be as extream and possible be able to use less drugs and come to show in better conditioning

Sounds like you have a good gameplan...as for dosing that is something you would have to test out on yourself...I know with me in the past 250-300mg and I would maintain or even slightly grow off that dose, as long as my diet and training are good...I have done shows in the past (and thought I looked my best at) with lower doses (total around 1000-1200mg per week..Compared to the 2.5-3 grams I used last year) I dont know if my body will do that anymore, as its pretty screwed up..but all you can do is experiament and see where it takes ya...best of luck

 

[juicin]

i like the points buselmo made. I've never heard someone put it like that before, i'm used to people always recommending 100mg-200mg for a cruise. In reality, i thought it was just me and i was just using too much gear - i can't see myself holding much mass at that dose at all. But it makes perfect sense to say that it depends on the person and how much mass he has in order to determine an optimal "cruising" dose for that person..... I am curious to know what the pro's cruise at...

 

[chris250]

bump

 

[LBJK88981]

So im thinking that this next year I'm going to take a decient break from AAS usage , try to grow some naturaly , then for contest prep take a mild cycle like 400mg/wk test , 200mg/wk deca and maybe 20-30mg/ed winstrol while dieting and doing the cardio , to possibly stop any size loss or actualy grow into a show while getting leaner.

Is this a decient way to cut back on the drug usage or would using AAS during the off season then going clean through the contest prep be a better way to go. Seems to me that being off while doing a prep would lead to losing some size

Instead of deca (aromatization) and winstrol (toxicity) you may want to look into a moderate dose of primo

-Alex

 

[Gunsmith]

Instead of deca (aromatization) and winstrol (toxicity) you may want to look into a moderate dose of primo

-Alex

I thought about that or EQ

Anybody else have any more input or oppinions??

 

[Johnny Smiles]

i would lose the deca due to the water retention i think it causes. but i haven't run it for a lONG time.
i would use test only and then 4 or 5 weeks out hit some low dose tren to get the hardened vasc ular look. i would go in on test and tren only. i did a show like that not too long ago and loved the result. wasn't exaclt "low dose" tho...
=-JS