Question specifically for people that turned their BACK from a weak to a good or even a strong bodypart

[luki7788]

It surprises me how some people attribute the development of a certain body part to a specific exercise—usually one that isn’t part of the standard basics.

I tend to put more trust in the evidence backed by dozens and dozens of lifters of all kinds, from bodybuilders like Franco, Arnold, Yates to powerlifters and strongmen.

Isn’t the deadlift a useful and effective exercise for developing the back? Then how come all those strongmen who lift 500 kilos have massive backs?

Ahh, but you’re a bodybuilder and you want maximum hypertrophy and to target specific muscle groups—okay, I get it. That does mean incorporating a wider variety of exercises, but you shouldn’t rule out the barbell row or the deadlift.

I agree.

I never had better back development, before or after, than when I was regularly doing deadlifts for reps with around 300-340 kg.
Basically week after week I was doing heavy deadlifts, barbell rows with around 180-220kg and pull-ups, usually weighted. I think my best was around 52.5 kg added for 5 reps.
But the point isn’t to brag about the numbers. The point is that this was genuinely when my back was at its best.

Of course, if someone competes in Classic Physique, they have to be a little more careful about developing the waist too much. I’ve never had naturally wide hips or a wide waist, but I’m sure my obliques developed from all that heavy pulling. I don’t think it was excessive, but it’s definitely something a Classic Physique competitor should keep in mind.

That being said, Chris Bumstead was doing deadlifts with around 300 kg for reps, and somehow he still became a six-time Classic Physique Mr. Olympia…
So…

 

[BigKevKris]

I might get flamed for repeating shit. My time in the Corps and doing 1,000s of dead hang pull ups without a doubt gave me my solid foundation for a wide strong back. I could never down play that exersize as the best thing in my arsenal to get where my back is today. I used some weighted pull ups to help but the strict form sets I did gave me everything I needed to end up with what I consider one of my best body parts. EDIT: Overhand although I dont consider underhand pull ups.....those are chin ups. I paired my pull ups with low rows and wide rows. Like I said the pull ups gave me the base i needed to get a complete back. I stayed away from heavy deads due to previous back complications that ended up in surgery.

 

[dantes]

I agree.

I never had better back development, before or after, than when I was regularly doing deadlifts for reps with around 300-340 kg.
Basically week after week I was doing heavy deadlifts, barbell rows with around 180-220kg and pull-ups, usually weighted. I think my best was around 52.5 kg added for 5 reps.
But the point isn’t to brag about the numbers. The point is that this was genuinely when my back was at its best.

Of course, if someone competes in Classic Physique, they have to be a little more careful about developing the waist too much. I’ve never had naturally wide hips or a wide waist, but I’m sure my obliques developed from all that heavy pulling. I don’t think it was excessive, but it’s definitely something a Classic Physique competitor should keep in mind.

That being said, Chris Bumstead was doing deadlifts with around 300 kg for reps, and somehow he still became a six-time Classic Physique Mr. Olympia…
So…

When you were doing these heavy compounds was this also during peak drug use and when you had the fewest injuries?
As an aside I don’t believe deadlifts make for a thick waist I think that’s all genetics and food consumpation/gut health

 

[luki7788]

When you were doing these heavy compounds was this also during peak drug use and when you had the fewest injuries?
As an aside I don’t believe deadlifts make for a thick waist I think that’s all genetics and food consumpation/gut health

Yes, that was during what I would call my peak physique.

But I wouldn't connect it with the fact that I was using much more gear back then or that I had fewer injuries. Honestly I could still do heavy deadlifts today. Nothing really prevents me from doing them. Heavy rows would probably be more difficult but I could still do them too.
I think deadlifts were probably the biggest factor in building my back. In general, deadlifts, heavy barbell and pull-ups.
Pull-ups are the one thing I absolutely can't do anymore and probably never will because of my shoulder injury. But again, I don't think gear is the main factor here because today I'm using maybe three or even four times less gear than I was at my peak but for example my legs are definitely the best they've ever been.
Back then I had problems with injuries and my knees, so my legs weren't that good. Now they're the best they've been in my entire "career" and I'm still improving them. I'm 38 now, I use much less gear, eat less protein, and generally do less of everything, but my legs are better than ever.
For me, this just shows how important the training itself is. I think exercise selection and the way you train make the biggest difference here.

That's exactly why I'm talking about it.

 

[biglizard225]

A technique I started using were static holds thrown somewhere into a normal set. I like to hold the rep for about 20-30 seconds then knock out more normal reps. I really find this helps get more mind muscle connection with the lats.

Works really well with cable movements.

 

[biglizard225]

 

[dantes]

Yes, that was during what I would call my peak physique.

But I wouldn't connect it with the fact that I was using much more gear back then or that I had fewer injuries. Honestly I could still do heavy deadlifts today. Nothing really prevents me from doing them. Heavy rows would probably be more difficult but I could still do them too.
I think deadlifts were probably the biggest factor in building my back. In general, deadlifts, heavy barbell and pull-ups.
Pull-ups are the one thing I absolutely can't do anymore and probably never will because of my shoulder injury. But again, I don't think gear is the main factor here because today I'm using maybe three or even four times less gear than I was at my peak but for example my legs are definitely the best they've ever been.
Back then I had problems with injuries and my knees, so my legs weren't that good. Now they're the best they've been in my entire "career" and I'm still improving them. I'm 38 now, I use much less gear, eat less protein, and generally do less of everything, but my legs are better than ever.
For me, this just shows how important the training itself is. I think exercise selection and the way you train make the biggest difference here.

That's exactly why I'm talking about it.

I used to deadlift somewhat heavy in my 20s and pulled in the high 700 rangee at my best for a single. I found it mostly just grew my traps and erectors though. I found it to be an extremely fatiguing movement when done heavy and in return I had much less energy I could allocate to other back movements.
I really find the best way to incorporate deadlifts is how Dorian did it. Very last movement in the workout done with much less weight and very controlled.
I would have to disagree that exercise selection is the most important factor. I think a much more important factor is execution of the movement and intent

 

[Big Dave Smith]

It surprises me how some people attribute the development of a certain body part to a specific exercise—usually one that isn’t part of the standard basics.

I tend to put more trust in the evidence backed by dozens and dozens of lifters of all kinds, from bodybuilders like Franco, Arnold, Yates to powerlifters and strongmen.

Isn’t the deadlift a useful and effective exercise for developing the back? Then how come all those strongmen who lift 500 kilos have massive backs?

Ahh, but you’re a bodybuilder and you want maximum hypertrophy and to target specific muscle groups—okay, I get it. That does mean incorporating a wider variety of exercises, but you shouldn’t rule out the barbell row or the deadlift.

Why cherry pick only the advice you like?

Why not follow all of Arnold’s advice? What specifically about a deadlift or barbell row is to great?

A deadlift is just a strong isometric contraction.

A barbell row is just a horizontal pull that also loads the spine and lower body.

Guys used to do those exercises because it’s all they had, not because they were so smart and wise.

 

[massnup]

Why cherry pick only the advice you like?

Why not follow all of Arnold’s advice? What specifically about a deadlift or barbell row is to great?

A deadlift is just a strong isometric contraction.

A barbell row is just a horizontal pull that also loads the spine and lower body.

Guys used to do those exercises because it’s all they had, not because they were so smart and wise.

Do you do back once per week or twice? I know twice per week with minimal sets seems to be all the craze nowadays.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Do you do back once per week or twice? I know twice per week with minimal sets seems to be all the craze nowadays.

I don’t really follow a weekly schedule. Unless it’s a logistical/schedule necessity, scheduling based on a 7 day week never made much sense to me.

Most of my body parts are trained every 4-6 days, using auto regulation based on context (recovery, time, different training phases, prioritization).

 

[massephase]

A technique I started using were static holds thrown somewhere into a normal set. I like to hold the rep for about 20-30 seconds then knock out more normal reps. I really find this helps get more mind muscle connection with the lats.

Works really well with cable movements.

Something I’ll try for sure!

 

[massephase]

After all these answers I decided to just do everything for a while. Pull-ups, barbell rows, machine rows, one arm pulldowns, high reps, low reps

I’ll just throw every possible thing at my back once a week on a massive back day and see what happens lol

 

[Sully1234]

I almost never wear a belt for anything.

Belts are designed to create abdominal support, used mostly when needing to brace under heavy loads. Most bodybuilding exercises (excluding powerlifting movements) should be performed with your stomach pulling in.

I don’t do any bent over exercises without some sort of chest support. Most self supporting rows limit lat stimulation because you’re simultaneously having to rely on the stability of your erectors and other surrounding muscles… basically, your whole body gets tired before your lats hit failure, and the risk of a disc injury are just too high.

People “get away with” doing these movements, and have held onto them for mostly nostalgic purposes. A buddy of mine was rowing 315 and tore his hamstring. Why? The little boost he was getting by thrusting at the bottom (which DECREASES mechanical tension in the lat) went straight into his ass, legs, and discs. When we corrected his form, and he could ONLY move the weight with his lats, he literally had to decrease the weight on all pulling movements by 50%.

“It worked for me bro!” or “You gotta do the hard stuff!”, but when you break down the logic, their reasoning sort of crumbles. Unless someone only does bent rows, and does zero other exercises, they can’t say “bent rows built my back”. Most people train back with a wide variety of movements, giving the most credit to exercises they think will make them be perceived as hardcore.

I’d rather walk around with a huge back and zero injuries.

Follow up question - Do you use same approach (prioritizing low systemic fatigue exercises) for legs?

 

[hawkmoon]

I see a lot of guys here who believe that deadlifts (and perhaps rows) won't ruin your midsection.

I disagree.

Not necessarily when you are young, but as you age, that intra-abdominal pressure takes a toll. I wore my old, thick Cardillo belt, held my tva and abs in as much as I could, but that didn't prevent my abs from blowing out. When you are rack pulling 260 kg over and over, physics wins in the end.

Do I think rack pulls helped thicken my back? Yes.

Do I think they gave me diastasis recti and a hernia? Also yes.

Additionally, I'll share an old, blurry picture from 1989. I never did deadlifts back then and didn't own a belt. Less than a year on gear (time on = off then). My back was pretty good for 19, and my waist was quite small.

Also I think "gut health" is oversold these days, unless there is a real, diagnosed issue.

 

[gauge22-v2]

I see a lot of guys here who believe that deadlifts (and perhaps rows) won't ruin your midsection.

I disagree.

Not necessarily when you are young, but as you age, that intra-abdominal pressure takes a toll. I wore my old, thick Cardillo belt, held my tva and abs in as much as I could, but that didn't prevent my abs from blowing out. When you are rack pulling 260 kg over and over, physics wins in the end.

These belts are the absolute best.

I have had the same one since 1998. Bit rough on where the "pins" go into but dang...talk about a "buy it for life" purchase.

I rub it with dryer sheets every once in a while to knock down the aroma...

 

[hawkmoon]

These belts are the absolute best.

I have had the same one since 1998. Bit rough on where the "pins" go into but dang...talk about a "buy it for life" purchase.

I rub it with dryer sheets every once in a while to knock down the aroma...

Used to drive up to Everett Golds so I could train next to Paul Demayo and others, then head over to Steve Cardillo's so my buddies could pick up their custom belts. Got my first one years later.

 

[massephase]

I see a lot of guys here who believe that deadlifts (and perhaps rows) won't ruin your midsection.

I disagree.

Not necessarily when you are young, but as you age, that intra-abdominal pressure takes a toll. I wore my old, thick Cardillo belt, held my tva and abs in as much as I could, but that didn't prevent my abs from blowing out. When you are rack pulling 260 kg over and over, physics wins in the end.

Do I think rack pulls helped thicken my back? Yes.

Do I think they gave me diastasis recti and a hernia? Also yes.

Additionally, I'll share an old, blurry picture from 1989. I never did deadlifts back then and didn't own a belt. Less than a year on gear (time on = off then). My back was pretty good for 19, and my waist was quite small.

Also I think "gut health" is oversold these days, unless there is a real, diagnosed issue.

View attachment 259247
View attachment 259248

Interesting... then wouldn't we see the same thing powerlifters, even the ones that stay within small weight classes, to a degree? I never looked at enough of those guys to tell.

 

[Fleezy]

Not necessarily when you are young, but as you age, that intra-abdominal pressure takes a toll. I wore my old, thick Cardillo belt, held my tva and abs in as much as I could, but that didn't prevent my abs from blowing out. When you are rack pulling 260 kg over and over, physics wins in the end.

good enough to convince me tbh

 

[hawkmoon]

Interesting... then wouldn't we see the same thing powerlifters, even the ones that stay within small weight classes, to a degree? I never looked at enough of those guys to tell.

I imagine you will see it in older guys who continue pulling large weights. Once you get a hernia and DR you likely lose neural function in those abdominal muscles. Ask me how I know...

I doubt any of those guys have waists in the lower 30" range unless they have a very small frame.

 

[bigzzz]

I see a lot of guys here who believe that deadlifts (and perhaps rows) won't ruin your midsection.

I disagree.

Not necessarily when you are young, but as you age, that intra-abdominal pressure takes a toll. I wore my old, thick Cardillo belt, held my tva and abs in as much as I could, but that didn't prevent my abs from blowing out. When you are rack pulling 260 kg over and over, physics wins in the end.

Do I think rack pulls helped thicken my back? Yes.

Do I think they gave me diastasis recti and a hernia? Also yes.

Additionally, I'll share an old, blurry picture from 1989. I never did deadlifts back then and didn't own a belt. Less than a year on gear (time on = off then). My back was pretty good for 19, and my waist was quite small.

Also I think "gut health" is oversold these days, unless there is a real, diagnosed issue.

View attachment 259247
View attachment 259248

Tell that to good old Stan Efferding