Quick Coconut Oil Question

[GuyJ]

Maybe Mr Mountaindog himself John will chime in and help here but I have misunderstood something. And haven't been able to find the answer anywhere else.

I read this article from John when it first came out and it all made great sense.

T NATION | Fats Made Simple

John recommends coconut oil and grass fed butter over olive oil for cooking in due to the stability of saturated fats when heated.

However at the end of his article the smoke points for each oil is listed, with coconut oil being 350 and extra virgin olive oil actually being higher at 375. Am I missing something here? I'm not trying to find faults in his work, I would like to understand this better.

 

[Kizzlen]

I know that Unrefined has a lower burn temp than refined. My coconut oil jar says the following:

Unrefined: Medium Heat
Refined: Medium to High Heat

Hopefully that helps.

 

[cgp10]

I don't think John recommends cocunut oil over olive oil because of the smoke point. I believe he recommends it over olive oil...... well just read the provided link.
I've heard John say on more than one occasion that when cooking with coconut, you have to cook at low heat!

 

[earch]

Not to thread jack, but I have a coconut oil related question that is.... well stupid.

I bought a jar and it was basically and white solid, took it home and it melted to a complete liquid sitting in my cupboard. Still good to go? I put my next one in the fridge and its almost a brick.

 

[cgp10]

I'm no expert but the same happens to me.....solid...then liquid. I don't refrigerate it. I keep it in the cupboard and continue to use it...even when it turns to liquid.

 

[Jerry M]

Not to thread jack, but I have a coconut oil related question that is.... well stupid.

I bought a jar and it was basically and white solid, took it home and it melted to a complete liquid sitting in my cupboard. Still good to go? I put my next one in the fridge and its almost a brick.

you simply have a very warm cupboard. you reached it melting point.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Melting point is in the 70's for EVCO.

Try cooking with EVOO. Save the oil and see what it looks like. Do the same with EVCO. The EVCO looks less burnt.

I think, in idiot terms, the EVOO becomes damaged in the cooking process. You're better off adding it after you cook if you want to use it for the monounsaturated fats. Saturated fats don't break down as much from cooking. I could be wrong though.

I only use grassfed butter and EVCO. Very happy I switched over.

 

[GuyJ]

I don't think John recommends cocunut oil over olive oil because of the smoke point. I believe he recommends it over olive oil...... well just read the provided link.
I've heard John say on more than one occasion that when cooking with coconut, you have to cook at low heat!

John says on more than one occasion that saturates stand up to heat better and hence highly saturated fats... eg butter, coconut oil etc are more suitable. However, when looking up smoke points macademia nut oil seems to be up there as one of the highest, although it is no where near as saturated as butter or coconut oil.

In one of his videos he says lard would be better than evoo for cooking. But yes you are right he also says even so, he still cooks on a low or medium heat anyway.

Melting point is in the 70's for EVCO.

Try cooking with EVOO. Save the oil and see what it looks like. Do the same with EVCO. The EVCO looks less burnt.

I think, in idiot terms, the EVOO becomes damaged in the cooking process. You're better off adding it after you cook if you want to use it for the monounsaturated fats. Saturated fats don't break down as much from cooking. I could be wrong though.

I only use grassfed butter and EVCO. Very happy I switched over.

I made the switch too, Im just confused as looking up the actual smoke points would suggest that olive oil is more resistant to heat, but that goes against what I've read about saturated fats and their structure

 

[heavyhitter]

The smoke points are not what makes the difference. coconut oil has a lower smoke point than olive oil, but it also does not break down and oxidize under heat as much as olive oil does. that's why it is recommended to use coconut oil to cook with. The oil retains more of it's natural structure. No matter what oil you are using you should always try to cook at medium to help your foods maintain as close to their natural structure as possible

 

[anarchocapitalist]

My day to day diet is mostly eggs/oats for breakfast, lean meats w/ rice throughout the day, and eggs before bed. I generally use organic virgin coconut oil/butters for my eggs and rice. I bbq my meats. Omega eggs you shouldn't be cooking on high heat anyways. My rice is only hitting the boiling point of water anyways so the coconut butter is probably stable.

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Stability/oxidation and smoke point are two different things. I would only cook with fats that are solid at room temp; ghee, butter, lard, tallow, duck fat, schmaltz, etc. Things like evoo are for dressings, toppings and things that don't involve heat.

 

[kingpeon]

:yeahthat: Pure grass fed beef tallow is dirt cheap from US Wellness Meats. One of the best to cook with if you like the flavor of beef.

 

[GuyJ]

The smoke points are not what makes the difference. coconut oil has a lower smoke point than olive oil, but it also does not break down and oxidize under heat as much as olive oil does. that's why it is recommended to use coconut oil to cook with. The oil retains more of it's natural structure. No matter what oil you are using you should always try to cook at medium to help your foods maintain as close to their natural structure as possible

exactly what I was looking for, thanks for helping explain it.

to clarify, if the oil left in the pan isnt discoloured or sticky am I safe to assume the heat Im using isnt burning/damaging the fats?

 

[heavyhitter]

:yeahthat: Pure grass fed beef tallow is dirt cheap from US Wellness Meats. One of the best to cook with if you like the flavor of beef.

Cool website. but practically everything is out of stock, including the tallow

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Cool website. but practically everything is out of stock, including the tallow

Believe it or not, this is a good thing. When you raise animals properly you don't force production and let them grow naturally. One result is not having everything available all the time like people are used to in a supermarket.

Keep checking back.

 

[Ironraider]

Stability/oxidation and smoke point are two different things. I would only cook with fats that are solid at room temp; ghee, butter, lard, tallow, duck fat, schmaltz, etc. Things like evoo are for dressings, toppings and things that don't involve heat.

I'm with you on this PF...I'll use grass feed dairy butter to "cook" with...but at a low temp. I might mix my virgin coconut oil in with my rice and season...or in my oatmeal.

I used to glaze my steaks etc. with evoo but a friend who is a chef said that it will actually ruin the taste based on the evoo reacts with the high heat, so that was the last time I ever used it for that reason. Now it is over salads or greens.

 

[heavyhitter]

I drizzle a little olive oil over my steak and season with sea salt after it has finished cooking. tastes delicious and you dont degrade the oil this way

 

[kingpeon]

Believe it or not, this is a good thing. When you raise animals properly you don't force production and let them grow naturally. One result is not having everything available all the time like people are used to in a supermarket.

Keep checking back.

Great insight as usual.

Cool website. but practically everything is out of stock, including the tallow

I never have a problem with keeping stocked up because by the time I get close to running low they've already re-stocked whatever I need. It's all about timing.

 

[heavyhitter]

Good to know kingpeon. i might have to give them a try. And FYI for all those who like coconut oil, Costco sells a 76 ounce jug of Nutiva virgin unrefined coconut oil for 21 bucks

 

[heavyhitter]

Also, i found this on coconut oil awhile back and thought it was interesting

Coconut oil reduces testosterone induced prostate hypertrophy

Coconut oil is generally eschewed by health conscious consumers due to its high percentage of saturated fat. However, a recent study (*conducted on rodents) gives us good reason to think that steroid users ought to consider adding it to their diets (along with other, less saturated fats, of course). In this study, Sprague-Dawley rats were separated into several groups, and administered testosterone, either with or without coconut oil (at two different doses, high and low). When the animals were sacrificed, the ones who had been given testosterone with the higher dose of coconut oil, had lower prostate weights as well as a lower prostate:bodyweight ratio. The researchers speculate that this could be as a result of the notable levels of lauric and myristic acid found in the fat (which are the same acids found in saw palmetto, which has also been used successfully to treat benign prostate growth).

J Pharm Pharmacol. 2007 Jul;59(7):995-9.
Effects of coconut oil on testosterone-induced prostatic hyperplasia in Sprague-Dawley rats.
de Lourdes Arruzazabala M, Molina V, Más R, Carbajal D, Marrero D, González V, Rodríguez E.

Source
Centre of Natural Products, National Centre for Scientific Research, Cubanacán, Playa, Havana City, Cuba. [email protected]


Abstract
Benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) is the benign uncontrolled growth of the prostate gland, leading to difficulty with urination. Saw palmetto lipid extracts (SPLE), used to treat BPH, have been shown to inhibit prostate 5a-reductase, and some major components, such as lauric, myristic and oleic acids also inhibit this enzyme. Coconut oil (CO) is also rich in fatty acids, mainly lauric and myristic acids. We investigated whether CO prevents testosterone-induced prostate hyperplasia (PH) in Sprague-Dawley rats. Animals were distributed into seven groups (10 rats each). A negative control group were injected with soya oil; six groups were injected with testosterone (3 mg kg(-1)) to induce PH: a positive control group, and five groups treated orally with SPLE (400 mg kg(-1)), CO or sunflower oil (SO) (400 and 800 mg kg(-1)). Treatments were given for 14 days. Rats were weighed before treatment and weekly thereafter. Rats were then killed and the prostates were removed and weighed. CO (400 and 800 mg kg(-1)), SPLE (400 mg kg(-1)) and SO at 800 mg kg(-1), but not at 400 mg kg(-1), significantly reduced the increase in prostate weight (PW) and PW:body weight (BW) ratio induced by testosterone (% inhibition 61.5%, 82.0%, 43.8% and 28.2%, respectively). Since CO and SPLE, but not SO, contain appreciable concentrations of lauric and myristic acids, these results could be attributed to this fact. In conclusion, this study shows that CO reduced the increase of both PW and PW:BW ratio, markers of testosterone-induced PH in rats.