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Quick HCG/HMG/fertility question

Well since the topic of taking 1g+ of Test a week will being back sperm count came up, I’ve heard simiar things about adding HGH and this happening as well...

Anyone know anything about this?

Sounds bro sciencish to me...
 
Do we have any board sources on here that carry HMG? Tried searching the search bar and couldn't find anything.
 
I was watching Fouad's latest podcast with Ben Chow and Ben said he consulted Justin Harris about a crazy sounding fertility protocol. He doesn't go into much detail at all, but he blasted 2g of test and pushed HMG and HCG hard. Knocked her up the 6th week into this cycle.

Pretty interesting talking points. I know a couple of guys who unknowingly did the same thing. Went completely off...bitched bout having no libido, said fuck it and blasted while still running the fertility drugs...BOOM. pregnant.


Well since the topic of taking 1g+ of Test a week will being back sperm count came up, I’ve heard simiar things about adding HGH and this happening as well...

Anyone know anything about this?

Sounds bro sciencish to me...
 
My testicles got bigger doing 500mg Test E every third day. I was on 8 weeks at that dose and knocked up the wife.
 
I was watching Fouad's latest podcast with Ben Chow and Ben said he consulted Justin Harris about a crazy sounding fertility protocol. He doesn't go into much detail at all, but he blasted 2g of test and pushed HMG and HCG hard. Knocked her up the 6th week into this cycle.

Pretty interesting talking points. I know a couple of guys who unknowingly did the same thing. Went completely off...bitched bout having no libido, said fuck it and blasted while still running the fertility drugs...BOOM. pregnant.


I don't know if high amounts of test will add to a fertility protocol, but I know that using moderate amounts of test (200-300mg per week) + HCG + HMG made it possible for my wife and I to have my baby daughter. She turns 7 months old this week.

And I've been on test and other anabolic steroids for over 28 years now, and used and abused just about everything, and had a zero sperm count when we started our fertility journey. So if I could do it, then just about anybody should be able to do it, barring any pre-existing fertility issues. I thank God for my little miracle baby every day, even when I am changing her diapers LOL.
 
Mike, what do you think about Palumbo's idea of high test dosages actually increasing ITT, any basis in fact?

Absolute nonsense.

Intratesticular testosterone (ITT) will be suppressed when using exogenous testosterone as shown in this study.

This study states clearly, "The hormonal control of spermatogenesis is based on the action of the pituitary gonadotropins, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), on the testis. LH stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone (T). Intratesticular T (ITT) mediates its effects within the testes through the androgen receptor that is found on Leydig cells, Sertoli cells, and peritubular cells"
 
Absolute nonsense.

Intratesticular testosterone (ITT) will be suppressed when using exogenous testosterone as shown in this study.

This study states clearly, "The hormonal control of spermatogenesis is based on the action of the pituitary gonadotropins, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), on the testis. LH stimulates the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone (T). Intratesticular T (ITT) mediates its effects within the testes through the androgen receptor that is found on Leydig cells, Sertoli cells, and peritubular cells"
I partially agree. Androgen action in the Sertoli cell stimulates sperm production. But intra-testicular androgen levels seem to be determined almost exclusively by LHR-induced T production. Otherwise, you couldn't explain why HCG therapy only increases sperm volume in AAS users.

However, if someone is already taking HCG and HMG (say, 3000IU and 225IU per week, respectively), then some of the exogenous androgens from the blood stream might make their way to the Sertoli cell. So to stimulate spermatogenesis, HCG+HMG+T may be slightly more effective than HCG+HMG only. I would speculate that application of T creams to the testicles would be more effective than the injection route for this purpose, but again only in the presence of HMG and HCG!


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Also. This probably goes without saying, but just a reminder to stay away from progestogens when you try to conceive:

Synthetic progestins such as levonorgestrel (LNG) are used in combination with testosterone (T) in male contraceptive clinical trials to suppress gonadotropins secretion, but whether progestins have additional direct effects on the testis are not known. This study aimed to examine the effect of a potent progestin, (LNG), alone or in combination with testosterone (T) on spermatogenesis in adult rats, and to evaluate the functional role of the progesterone receptors (PRs) in the testis. In comparison with a low dose of LNG treatment in adult rats for 4 weeks, T and T + LNG treatment decreased testicular sperm count to 64.1 and 40.2% of control levels respectively. LNG induced germ cell apoptosis at stages I-IV and XII-XIV; T increased apoptosis at stages VII-VIII; LNG + T treatment induced greater germ cell apoptosis at a wider range of seminiferous epithelial stages. RT-PCR and Western Blots showed that PR was present in testes and up-regulated during suppression of spermatogenesis induced by testicular hormonal deprivation. PR knockout (PRKO) mice had larger testes, greater sperm production, increased numbers of Sertoli and Leydig cells. Suppression of gonadotropin and intratesticular T by GnRH-antagonist treatment induced PR promoter driven LacZ expression in Leydig cells of PRKO mice. This suggests that GnRH-antagonist treatment while inducing germ cell apoptosis also up-regulates PR. We conclude that (i) LNG + T induced greater suppression of spermatogenesis through increase in germ cell apoptosis involving a wider range of seminiferous epithelial stages than either treatment alone, (ii) up-regulation of PR was associated with inhibition of spermatogenesis, (iii) PR knockout mice showed increased sperm production suggesting that testicular PR activated events play a physiological and pharmacological inhibitory role in the testis. These data support the hypothesis that in addition to its known suppressive effects on gonadotropins, progestins may have direct inhibitory actions on the testis.

Detailed analysis of the relationships between gonadotropins and spermatogenic suppression during longer-duration suppression has previously provided indirect evidence that progestogens, including desogestrel as used here, have additional gonadotropin-independent effects (15). These data substantiate this by now providing for the first time in men direct evidence that progestogens have specific intratesticular effects independent of gonadotropin suppression, which may contribute to the enhanced suppression of spermatogenesis demonstrated in trials of hormonal male contraceptive regimens (7, 8, 23). They also illustrate the value of this approach to the study of spermatogenic suppression in response to potential contraceptive regimens and other manipulations of testicular function.
 
It depends on how you want to go about it. If you want a full recovery (e.g. recovery of the pituitary and testes) then your only option is to go off all gear and use Clomid (possibly along with a small dose of Aromasin to keep estrogen from providing negative feedback at the level of the hypothalamus) until you conceive.

If you don't want to go off gear...or you think serious, permanent damage has been done to your pituitary, then using HMG (which contains Luteinizing Hormone and Follicle Stimulating Hormone) and HCG is the way to go. By doing this you bypass the pituitary completely and only have to worry about recovery of the testes. Since the natural production of LH and FSH is not a concern when using HMG and HCG, AAS use will not have any negative effect on your ability to produce testosterone or sperm.

HMG: 75 iu Mon/Wed/Fri
HCG: 2,500 iu Tues/Thurs/Sat


After a few weeks reduce the HCG dose down to about 500-750 iu per injection.
Digging up a bit of an old post and not sure if you're still active, but what would likely happen if someone had come off and was using hcg / hmg 3x per week?

Would the hpta or sperm be able to recover? I ask as I note you say a or b. But not a with b's protocol.
 
Digging up a bit of an old post and not sure if you're still active, but what would likely happen if someone had come off and was using hcg / hmg 3x per week?

Would the hpta or sperm be able to recover? I ask as I note you say a or b. But not a with b's protocol.
You can absolutely drop gear, run HCG/HMG, and regain fertility.

HCG/HMG will do the trick for nearly everyone regardless of gear usage, but dropping gear will potentially make it even more likely that you recover fertility.

It’s not guaranteed and some people may benefit from other things like enclomiphene, etc, and some people with primary hypo may not have a great outcome.

Fully restoring your HPTA is another story. Age, usage history, genetics all play roles there, and unless you have a specific reason to come off it’s probably best just to use HCG/HMG to get pregnant and then jump back on TRT.
 
You can absolutely drop gear, run HCG/HMG, and regain fertility.

HCG/HMG will do the trick for nearly everyone regardless of gear usage, but dropping gear will potentially make it even more likely that you recover fertility.

It’s not guaranteed and some people may benefit from other things like enclomiphene, etc, and some people with primary hypo may not have a great outcome.

Fully restoring your HPTA is another story. Age, usage history, genetics all play roles there, and unless you have a specific reason to come off it’s probably best just to use HCG/HMG to get pregnant and then jump back on TRT.
I have come off and tried hcg / hmg / clomid and although my sperm has improved alot, due to no T I have ED. I believe this may be hypogonadal at this point, but its hard to say.
 

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