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Quick Question about Nolva

RDS

Active member
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Jul 19, 2013
Messages
348
hi guys,

Would using tamoxifen skew your E values on your labs? I understand that it can act like oestrogen in some tissues, but does it effect your E2 reading on your blood work?

I am going to get some bloods to see where I'm at but I'm currently using nolva daily. The whole point of the bloods is to see where my E is at so I don't want to be using anything that'll mess with that.

Thanks
 
It blocks your recptor for e ,so I would think it would affect bloods
 
Arent you using the nolva to help control estrogen? So why would you not want to know how its affecting your bloodwork?
 
Arent you using the nolva to help control estrogen? So why would you not want to know how its affecting your bloodwork?

It was my understanding that the nolva just blocks the action of E at the receptors, and didn't lower the actual levels of E.

But I've also heard that nolva actually raises levels of E in some tissues, so I wasn't sure if I got bloods that it would show a higher level of E than I would otherwise have if I was just using my usual test/AI combo.
 
nolva gets broken down into compound that act as AI

I have heard John Meadows say that too. Is there any documented science behind it, or is it bro-science?
 
Thanks for the link LS. Gives me some peace of mind. Aromasin and arimidex make my joints feel like I'm an arthritic old fart, even in small doses. Been taking 20mg nolva/ day on my current mass cycle. Good to know it's having an AI effect, and not just blocking estrogen.
 
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OK....pardon my ignorance. I got a Chicago public school edumacation....So what you are saying is even though nolva metabolites act as an AI, nolva also increases estrogen and estradiol?

It acts in a multidimensional fashion by blocking the estrogen receptor and to a lesser degree by mildly inhibiting estradiol, very weakly. Tamoxifin acts dually, antagonistic and agonistic, being tissue, gland and organ selective. In the liver it acts agonistic, therefore could potentially increase estradiol levels,
 
It acts in a multidimensional fashion by blocking the estrogen receptor and to a lesser degree by mildly inhibiting estradiol, very weakly. Tamoxifin acts dually, antagonistic and agonistic, being tissue, gland and organ selective. In the liver it acts agonistic, therefore could potentially increase estradiol levels,

Thanks for clearing that up Stewie.....much appreciated.
 
It acts in a multidimensional fashion by blocking the estrogen receptor and to a lesser degree by mildly inhibiting estradiol, very weakly. Tamoxifin acts dually, antagonistic and agonistic, being tissue, gland and organ selective. In the liver it acts agonistic, therefore could potentially increase estradiol levels,

My head is starting to hurt now.

So it... does give you a higher E2 reading on your bloodwork?

Sorry for the potentially stupid question...
 
Studies in healthy subjects would be better, not breast cancer. Tamoxifen can do some weird stuff in breast cancer patients as far as the expression of hormones is concerned, as opposed to healthy subjects.
 
My head is starting to hurt now.

So it... does give you a higher E2 reading on your bloodwork?

Sorry for the potentially stupid question...

With what Stewie posted it could be possible for tamoxifen to effect the liver in a way that it could possibly raise E2. But like Swifto posted....considering most of these studies are from female breast cancer patients...my guess is that tamoxifen most likely won't raise E2 levels in healthy males.
 
Here's a few studies on otherwise healthy males, if you will. Granted there's a bit of a rise in testosterone, there's a substantial increase in estradiol.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/323393/

The hormonal effects of tamoxifen (10 mg daily for 6 months) have been studied in nine men with oligospermia. Basal concentrations of serum LH (1-7 +/- 0-1 (S.E.M.) i.u./l) increased to a maximum of 4-1 +/- 1-3 i.u./l (P less than 0-001) after 6 months, and FSH rose from 4-9 +/- 1-0 to a maximum of 7-7 +/- 1-3 i.u./l after 4 months of treatment (P less than 0-01). The response to luteinizing hormone releasing hormone (LH-RH) was studied at monthly intervals. Sums of increments of serum LH increased from 35 +/- 4 to 92 +/- 17 i.u./l at 4 months (P less than 0-001) and of FSH from 14 +/- 3-4 to 23 +/- 3-5 i.u./l at 4 months (P less than 0-01). Basal serum androgens rose from 25 +/- 2-7 to 38 +/- 2-4 nmol/l after 4 months of treatment (P less than 0-05), and serum oestradiol-17beta increased from 185 +/- 25 to 631 +/- 90 pmol/l by 6 months (P less than 0-001). No significant changes occurred in sperm counts. Five normal men acted as controls: they were given tamoxifen for 1 week. No significant changes were observed in serum LH, FSH or release of these hormones following administration of LH-RH. Serum androgens and oestrogens however, increased significantly by day 4 of treatment (P less than 0-05).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6193975/

Abstract
Treatment of 9 patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia with 20 mg tamoxifen daily for 6 weeks resulted in a significant increase of LH (211%), FSH (215%), E2 (231%), total T (157%), free T (148%) and total DHT (148%) levels in blood. The increase of plasma free DHT (152%) levels was not significant and PRL concentrations in serum were unchanged during treatment. Comparison of the increases between total T and free T, total T and total DHT as well as free T and free DHT failed to reveal any significant differences. These results imply (1) a marked anti-oestrogenic effect of tamoxifen at the level of hypothalamo-hypophysial axis (2) no effect at the hepatic oestrogen receptor sites indicated by unchanged SHBG-bound T and DHT in plasma and (3) no significant inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on 5 alpha-reductase activity concluded from the T/DHT ratio in peripheral circulation. In view of these findings tamoxifen appears to be unsuitable for therapy of benign prostatic hyperplasia.
 
Throws my theory right out the window.....I'll shut up and stand in the corner now.....
 
Besides the fact that tamoxifen "must" increase estradiol (because it increases testosterone-via blocking negative feedback of GNRH- which breaks down to E2).

Most estradiol testing is done using a cheap testing method that would likely confuse tamoxifen for estradiol, get the "sensitive" or "LC/MS" method and this won't happen.
 

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