quitting steroids,

[pahlevan]

cycled for about 6 years, blast to cruises,

finally throwing in the towel, going to quit my goal to have a "bodybuilding" physique, strictly for longevity and health reasons.

wanted to ask, would it be better to get off completely and try to restart natural test or just stay on TRT the rest of my life?

I am still planning to workout to maintain a healthy weight, eat healthy, etc.
im debating whether i should get off completely, reason being i had low natural test levels prior to starting gear, which is actually why i started. and by low i mean it was below normal

TRT would just be enough test to keep my levels in the mid-high normal range, don't want to put my levels above normal, or use any anti estrogens.
I'll make sure my estrogen is in range

are there any health risks with being on TRT vs not being on TRT? does it tax the body more having to process injectable testosterone vs naturally produced?

will be discussing with my endocrinologist but just wanted to ask what peoples thoughts were on this or if anyone has experience

I suggest talking tona doctor who specializes in this. I would long term PCT and see where you are.

 

[jaxino]

cycled for about 6 years, blast to cruises,

finally throwing in the towel, going to quit my goal to have a "bodybuilding" physique, strictly for longevity and health reasons.

wanted to ask, would it be better to get off completely and try to restart natural test or just stay on TRT the rest of my life?

I am still planning to workout to maintain a healthy weight, eat healthy, etc.
im debating whether i should get off completely, reason being i had low natural test levels prior to starting gear, which is actually why i started. and by low i mean it was below normal

TRT would just be enough test to keep my levels in the mid-high normal range, don't want to put my levels above normal, or use any anti estrogens.
I'll make sure my estrogen is in range

are there any health risks with being on TRT vs not being on TRT? does it tax the body more having to process injectable testosterone vs naturally produced?

will be discussing with my endocrinologist but just wanted to ask what peoples thoughts were on this or if anyone has experience

I have a very close friend that lives in Florida he is in that since 10y and this year he is 60y old, looks much younger and he is on HRT:
200 TestC ew
200 Deca ew
25-50mg Proviron ed
Caber on hand
Adex on hand
2iu Genotropin ed
500iu HCG ew (we he needs that)
He has prescription for everything

He added only 300mg Vet EQ ew

He is 230lbs 8-10% bf all year long.

That said I would stay on 250 TestE + 500 PrimoE or Test Deca Proviron, you will hold all your muscles and feel awesome. Use HCG to keep your testicles working.

 

[Crazy_jay]

Wow! I've never heard of anyone being that low. I would hate to see what I'm at now.

I've tried coming off test twice, ran dr scally hpta restart protocol. Bloodwork after 6 weeks and test levels 50-60, threw in the towel both times and went back on, that was a few years ago, I dont try to come off anymore. Wont say I felt terrible but zero sex drive, lack of strength, fatigue really fast from intense work, no energy.

Seems most fail to restart hpta after a couple years of blasting and cruising, and those that somewhat did were still only putting up low, in lab range numbers after a year, and multiple pct's.

Best of luck to op, I've been where he's at. I still blast and cruise, but blasting for me is 500mg test, usually nothing more.

 

[thewizkid]

send me your leftover gear

Unfortunately I’m canadian haha

I threw out about 100 vials of roids and 20 vials of GH after my heart attack.

dam, the gh too?

You can stop the extra drug use and just do TRT and continue to eat and train like a bodybuilder, and you’d still look damn good I bet and be healthy.

thats the plan if my natural testosterone doesn’t restart
[/QUOTE]

I've tried coming off test twice, ran dr scally hpta restart protocol. Bloodwork after 6 weeks and test levels 50-60, threw in the towel both times and went back on, that was a few years ago, I dont try to come off anymore. Wont say I felt terrible but zero sex drive, lack of strength, fatigue really fast from intense work, no energy.

Seems most fail to restart hpta after a couple years of blasting and cruising, and those that somewhat did were still only putting up low, in lab range numbers after a year, and multiple pct's.

Best of luck to op, I've been where he's at. I still blast and cruise, but blasting for me is 500mg test, usually nothing more.

if I ever use anything extra other than trt test it’ll be primo just to avoid having to take extra anti estrogen
But I don’t think I’d use it, I have no goals in terms of having a bodybuilding aesthetic

 

[little slice]

Unfortunately I’m canadian haha

im sorry to hear that..

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

stay on trt

 

[brutus69]

longer you use, the harder it is to recover of course. but as was said, if u do recover and you're within the 250-1100 range or whatever and ur closer to the bottom, that doesnt mean u NEED trt. base that on how u feel. so many guys think they need to be at the high end or higher to "feel good" but ive been at the low end and the high end and felt no different. its all in their heads sometime. extra high levels dont even mean more muscle mass. i know a guy 5'11 260 huge and ripped and he was diagnosed hypogonadic. i still dont know how he can have that mass at the low test levels but apparently to me, it means u can still be big if genetics are there. and u say u dont care bout that these days so.....do what the doc suggests, prolly hcg and clomid for 3 months. 6 weeks is nothing.

 

[maldorf]

Don't go on any kind of PCT. Get off and see the doctor. If you go on PCT it will stimulate more testosterone release but at the same time it will continue to supress your LH and FSH secretion and make your recovery that much longer. If the endocrinologist prescribes some then that's fine, but I doubt he will do that.

 

[thewizkid]

longer you use, the harder it is to recover of course. but as was said, if u do recover and you're within the 250-1100 range or whatever and ur closer to the bottom, that doesnt mean u NEED trt. base that on how u feel. so many guys think they need to be at the high end or higher to "feel good" but ive been at the low end and the high end and felt no different. its all in their heads sometime. extra high levels dont even mean more muscle mass. i know a guy 5'11 260 huge and ripped and he was diagnosed hypogonadic. i still dont know how he can have that mass at the low test levels but apparently to me, it means u can still be big if genetics are there. and u say u dont care bout that these days so.....do what the doc suggests, prolly hcg and clomid for 3 months. 6 weeks is nothing.

i can't say i can agree with that
its been looked at in studies that hormones play a huge part in body composition

higher testosterone levels is correlated with better insulin sensitivity, higher lean body mass, less body fat
and the opposite is true for lower testosterone levels

although i am not trying to bodybuild anymore, i do want to be healthy. high body fat, insulin resistance, visceral fat, etc is not healthy
i'll be going by my blood work and body composition vs how i feel

Don't go on any kind of PCT. Get off and see the doctor. If you go on PCT it will stimulate more testosterone release but at the same time it will continue to supress your LH and FSH secretion and make your recovery that much longer. If the endocrinologist prescribes some then that's fine, but I doubt he will do that.

really?

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Don't go on any kind of PCT. Get off and see the doctor. If you go on PCT it will stimulate more testosterone release but at the same time it will continue to supress your LH and FSH secretion and make your recovery that much longer. If the endocrinologist prescribes some then that's fine, but I doubt he will do that.

Yeah nah, that's not how it works. The basic idea of PCT is to suppress estrogen signaling in the brain (via SERMs) so that your body produces LH and FSH sooner, which then will get your balls produce test again. By the time you stop the SERMs, LH and FSH levels should ideally be normal, resulting in normal test levels, which, unless you destroyed your HPTA permanently, will maintain normal gonadotropin production in the brain.

PCT with SERMs is basically a means of doing TRT that does not "shut you down" so that once you stop it, your body's natural production can take over right away. It is a generally a good idea to do since it allows you to avoid spending weeks and months with low test after a cycle, which is neither healthy nor enjoyable.

 

[muscle96ss]

Yeah nah, that's not how it works. The basic idea of PCT is to suppress estrogen signaling in the brain (via SERMs) so that your body produces LH and FSH sooner, which then will get your balls produce test again. By the time you stop the SERMs, LH and FSH levels should ideally be normal, resulting in normal test levels, which, unless you destroyed your HPTA permanently, will maintain normal gonadotropin production in the brain.

PCT with SERMs is basically a means of doing TRT that does not "shut you down" so that once you stop it, your body's natural production can take over right away. It is a generally a good idea to do since it allows you to avoid spending weeks and months with low test after a cycle, which is neither healthy nor enjoyable.

I think he is referring to things like HCG or Clomid, which many people use under the false assumption that it will help kick-start their system. He is right, they will only further suppress your system and are counter-productive to restarting the HPTA.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I think he is referring to things like HCG or Clomid, which many people use under the false assumption that it will help kick-start their system. He is right, they will only further suppress your system and are counter-productive to restarting the HPTA.

Clomid is a SERM.

 

[muscle96ss]

Clomid is a SERM.

Yes, and it is also a weak estrogen. But my point was that using anything artificial to have a stimulatory(if that is a word) effect on the HPTA will in turn have an inhibitory effect on the HPTA natural state; which leaves you no better than you were before you started it.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Yes, and it is also a weak estrogen. But my point was that using anything artificial to have a stimulatory(if that is a word) effect on the HPTA will in turn have an inhibitory effect on the HPTA natural state; which leaves you no better than you were before you started it.

I disagree. Consider the following thought experiment: Take a 25 year old natural with normal test levels. Give him 40mg clomid per day for a month. During that time his LH, FSH, and test will be elevated. Once he goes off the clomid, these levels will not crash. Instead, they will return to normal prior levels. There is no " inhibitory effect on the HPTA natural state".

 

[maldorf]

Yeah nah, that's not how it works. The basic idea of PCT is to suppress estrogen signaling in the brain (via SERMs) so that your body produces LH and FSH sooner, which then will get your balls produce test again. By the time you stop the SERMs, LH and FSH levels should ideally be normal, resulting in normal test levels, which, unless you destroyed your HPTA permanently, will maintain normal gonadotropin production in the brain.

PCT with SERMs is basically a means of doing TRT that does not "shut you down" so that once you stop it, your body's natural production can take over right away. It is a generally a good idea to do since it allows you to avoid spending weeks and months with low test after a cycle, which is neither healthy nor enjoyable.

Yeah, youre right. I was thinking about guys using HCG for PCT. I did that in the past and it seemed like it drew out the recovery process as it mimics LH if I am not mistaken. Suppresses LH production.

 

[maldorf]

To continue down the road self prescribing meds like you have been all along isn't going to help matters any. That's what got you to this point to begin with. Doing a PCT isn't going to force your body to magically start its own natural production of testosterone once you get off of the PCT. Eventually youre going to be off everything and IMO taking a PCT is just going to prolong how long it is before you reach that point. Usually what happens is you get off the PCT and then feel like shit, just as bad as if you had done nothing to begin with. That was my experience anyhow. I felt great on the PCT, but it just prolonged the process for me. My advice is to follow the instructions given to you by the MD.

 

[LEEGASPARI]

Quit? Impossible for me. I did try to quit some twenty years ago, but couldn't. It was just so hard to adjust to how I was feeling and my lack of sex drive. I just could not live like that. Now 20 years later I'm having some heart issues been thru 5 surgeries due to heavy lifting and my connective tissues couldn't handle my strength. Still doing test and gH, and sometimes Tren and some orals. Yes, I've made health issues because of my usage, but I've accepted it for what it is. No regrets, none whatsoever.

 

[muscle96ss]

I disagree. Consider the following thought experiment: Take a 25 year old natural with normal test levels. Give him 40mg clomid per day for a month. During that time his LH, FSH, and test will be elevated. Once he goes off the clomid, these levels will not crash. Instead, they will return to normal prior levels. There is no " inhibitory effect on the HPTA natural state".

Your missing the fact that Clomid has its own effects on the HPTA axis(i.e. GNRH, SHBG, LH, etc..); so of course its going to have some suppression; how can it not? And when you stop taking the clomid, you still haven't done anything to restore the natural HPTA; you have just been artificially stimulating it via the Clomid(just the same as HCG but via a different pathway).

In other words, the HPTA is a big feedback loop and anything you take to artificially stimulate it is going to have numerous other effects and throw it off its natural rhythm. Taking Clomid isn't going to throw it off enough that it won't recover quickly but its recovery will be back to its suppressed state it was prior to taking the Clomid and you will still be at square one and just have wasted a bunch of time. Hope that makes sense as I am not sure I articulated well.

 

[muscle96ss]

To continue down the road self prescribing meds like you have been all along isn't going to help matters any. That's what got you to this point to begin with. Doing a PCT isn't going to force your body to magically start its own natural production of testosterone once you get off of the PCT. Eventually youre going to be off everything and IMO taking a PCT is just going to prolong how long it is before you reach that point. Usually what happens is you get off the PCT and then feel like shit, just as bad as if you had done nothing to begin with. That was my experience anyhow. I felt great on the PCT, but it just prolonged the process for me. My advice is to follow the instructions given to you by the MD.

This is what I was trying to say but in a less technical manner!

 

[pickapeck]

Personally, I think it's worth a shot to try and restart. I went off after cycling for over 3 years back in the early 90s. It took over a year to recover. I cycles again for over 3 years and again stopped. It again took over a year to recover. Then when I turned 46 I started to ahve the normal mid life slowdown so I started cycling again. After every run I went off for at least 12 weeks and up to 6 months. I always tested before going back on and always tested in the mid 500s to mid 600s. The difference between the way we did it back in the 80s and 90s is that a lot of us actually CYCLED. That means we went on and off meaning we took months and months off between cycles. We didn't always recover between cycles and the longer you cycle the longer it takes to completely recover. But if you take time off your HPTA at least comes back on line. It might limp along but you are exercising it. If you blast and cruise you can put it to sleep and maybe permanently. I recovered into my mid 50s. Now not so much. But I did it successfully for a long long time. Those periods that I ws off I felt great. I stayed in shape and once things were back on line a lot of the muscle came back and it sure was liberating to not have to be dependent on some shot. I'm not sure why so many men have trouble restarting. My guess is blast and cruise puts the boys to sleep and maybe they never wake up. Most of the guys that cycled from back in my day seem to have recovered. They went off, had kids and went on to other things in life. Some continued to train and some didn't. Seems to me like the 70s through the 90s were the best far as habits of abuse that let recovery happen. Now with internet candy stores, blast and cruise and long long cycles it seems like we are having more issues. In the 80s-90s there was no common TRT or clinics. We just went off. Often concentrated on other things in life like masters degree etc. A year went by and recovery happened. No wringing of the hands. No clinic looking to sell TRT. No boards yelling "you're doing it wrong". Just stopped and eventually recovered.