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R.I.P. RICH

Very sad news. It just shows that our time can be up at any moment so enjoy life as much as possible.
 
I have to disagree with this somewhat. I think the vascularity look only comes if you have those genetics or you just happen to eat really strict all the time. Most likely both. Great genetics and strict eating. I say this because steroids have done ZERO for me as far as changing how my muscle "looks". I have gotten bigger and stronger over the years but that is it. As far as how my muscle looks it has changed none. Or I guess more directly how my skin looks.

In full disclosure I don't eat strictly. I'm sorry but I like to live. And how some of you guys eat the exact same shit every day and nothing else is beyond me. I have a friend at the gym and he eats like that. And yes he has that "look" to his muscle and skin. But he also has 20 inch lean arms. Once again genetics and yes his strict eating. But its mainly his genetics. He literally has not had any type of fast food in over 5 years. Not even one french fry. Fuck that. I gotta live. I stand by what I always say. Genetics are 98% of it all. Everything else is only 2%. At least when it comes to that "look" and how big you get. Drugs won't do shit to help you get that "look" if you don't have the genetics. I am proof of it.

Maybe try a diet and you will find steroids more effective:lightbulb:
 
I have to disagree with this somewhat. I think the vascularity look only comes if you have those genetics or you just happen to eat really strict all the time. Most likely both. Great genetics and strict eating. I say this because steroids have done ZERO for me as far as changing how my muscle "looks". I have gotten bigger and stronger over the years but that is it. As far as how my muscle looks it has changed none. Or I guess more directly how my skin looks.

In full disclosure I don't eat strictly. I'm sorry but I like to live. And how some of you guys eat the exact same shit every day and nothing else is beyond me. I have a friend at the gym and he eats like that. And yes he has that "look" to his muscle and skin. But he also has 20 inch lean arms. Once again genetics and yes his strict eating. But its mainly his genetics. He literally has not had any type of fast food in over 5 years. Not even one french fry. Fuck that. I gotta live. I stand by what I always say. Genetics are 98% of it all. Everything else is only 2%. At least when it comes to that "look" and how big you get. Drugs won't do shit to help you get that "look" if you don't have the genetics. I am proof of it.

You must eat quite bad then. Yes genetics are everything and you can't look like anyone you want with different drug stacks. However, strict dieting and aas can give a certain look to everyone. They will all look different but that look you can't really mistake. Some look vascular at 15% and others need to be 5% but you can still obtain a certain look if everything is in place. You said it yourself you don't eat strictly and that is a fundamental part of achieving that look. I guarantee if you ate and trained 100% and took the needed drugs for a long period you would look completely different but you won't so you will never know. Nothing wrong with not wanting to eat strict all year and I understand but that's what separates guys in the gym. But sure if your genetics are amazing you really don't have to try as much in the other departments to achieve a certain look.
 
Bodybuilder Profiles
Curtis Leffler
NameCurtis Leffler


Participated in the following shows*
ContestPlacePics?

1996 IFBB North American Championships7th


1996 NPC USA Bodybuilding & Figure Championships10th


1995 NPC Nationals5th


1995 IFBB North American Championships
When I googled his name an old thread popped up. Guys on the thread were arguing on whether or not steroids had anything to do with his death. I guess little has changed in 19 years.https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/misc.fitness.weights/b1jjcsDzWsU
 
When I googled his name an old thread popped up. Guys on the thread were arguing on whether or not steroids had anything to do with his death. I guess little has changed in 19 years.https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/misc.fitness.weights/b1jjcsDzWsU

Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....

I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc
 
Last edited:
Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....

I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc

DC i really respect your opinion, although i usually am the quiet lurker i have completely changed and evolved my opinion of what it means to ME to be healthy and in shape over the past 6 months. Do you think that the majority of these deaths are due to the WEIGHT of the bodybuilder that is putting so much pressure on other organs?

I had bloodwork and a doctor appointment on May 15th of this year and at that point i weighed 236 (a decent amount of fat), with high triglycerides, good hdl was low. I somewhat freaked out when I put all of these together being that i was 31 and just running TRT for the past year. So since then i've only done weights once a week with 30-45 mins of cardio 5-6 days a week. I now weigh the least i have weighted since i can remember, at 209. My goal is to get to 200 and to maintain that body weight. Supplements i have been taking are:
Citrus Burgamot
Krill Oil
Circumin
Aspirin
CoQ10.

I can barely fit into clothes that i use to wear, and if i do it looks silly, but I wanted to evolve my thinking on what I wanted to look like and what was sexy. I keep telling myself skinny is sexy lol
 
Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....

I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc

in all respect bud...
so what is it you the propose?
should we make steroids MORE illegal? :rolleyes:

again in all respect to the 4 points they are not entirely true.

yes you provide some examples of ppl we know who died. for every one of those im sure we have 10 unknown drugs monkies doing exactly or more then one of if not all of those 4 things combined. and livign until who knows when.

im not arguing and do not disagree with the fact that doing all those things are dumb, but we keep beating that horse, nothing changes. lol

i am sort of playing devils advocate but seriously where are you taking this?

since steroids became ILLEGAL use and availability has INCREASED.

sooooooooo????

what then?

:cool:
;)
:D

again to my tobacco point. we have how many examples of how it will kill us, yet entirely free to use.

school us please.

:sta:-wars
 
I think he just wants to make it aware to guys that may be unaware or trying to look the other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I think he just wants to make it aware to guys that may be unaware or trying to look the other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i mean this in the best way possible. lol
:love:

but we know!

we
we here
lol

so how do we, this tiny retard group of online durg nerds how do we show society at large some shit that is basically known and available? we for the most part all grow up with... drugs are bad, dont take them, they are illegal and bad for you.

and...
here we are.

lol

and then?
 
Not trying to save the world but look out for each other a bit. We share our experiences and help each other it's what the forum is for. There is not rite or wrong, winner or loser. We share our thoughts and experiences and guys can decide as adults.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....

I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc

Let's add, you can't walk around at 300Lbs and live very long whether you take steroids or not. Both Piana and Dallas were way to damn heavy. That requires eating too much food and over stresses the heart. And how did both die? Think about it... common sense shows little guys generally live much longer. Anyone here who is pushing 40, get over the size game or prepare to die. It's a big mental wall to over come, but once you drop the ego weight you'll feel much healthier. I'm down to 198Lbs in cloths at the gym. When I weighed 265Lbs I could barely walk to my car. I'd stop when I got there, all 50 feet, and huff and puff while holding my car door.
 
in all respect bud...
so what is it you the propose?
should we make steroids MORE illegal? :rolleyes:

again in all respect to the 4 points they are not entirely true.

yes you provide some examples of ppl we know who died. for every one of those im sure we have 10 unknown drugs monkies doing exactly or more then one of if not all of those 4 things combined. and livign until who knows when.

im not arguing and do not disagree with the fact that doing all those things are dumb, but we keep beating that horse, nothing changes. lol

i am sort of playing devils advocate but seriously where are you taking this?

since steroids became ILLEGAL use and availability has INCREASED.

sooooooooo????

what then?

:cool:
;)
:D

again to my tobacco point. we have how many examples of how it will kill us, yet entirely free to use.

school us please.

:sta:-wars

Yes....things like tobacco and alcohol are totally legal. Keep in mind that thousands die every year from cancer due to smoking. AA meetings are going on every night of the week for people that want to stop drinking. Rehab centers are full of alcoholics too. Jails have thousands of inmates in for DUI or alcohol related offenses. The steroid user deaths people talk about are mostly current or former bodybuilding competitors, but I can think of 5 members of this board that have died since I joined ProM in 2008. Yes....some people are going to use large gear dosages no matter what you tell them...just like some people are going to smoke,drink,do rec drugs etc....but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with warning people about possible negative effects of using these things.
 
Last edited:
I think I was on 500mg test and 400mg EQ and around 240 when my ex-wife recorded me sleeping and showed it to me in the morning.

From that day on, I stay between 100 and 200mg of test a week and sprinkle some dry anabolic on top of that for a few weeks each year.

But again, it's a personal decision. Who am I to say the guy using 5g and 20iu of hgh plus slin is wrong?
 
Yes....things like tobacco and alcohol are totally legal. Keep in mind that thousands die every year from cancer due to smoking. AA meetings are going on every night of the week for people that want to stop drinking. Rehab centers are full of alcoholics too. Jails have thousands of inmates in for DUI or alcohol related offenses. The steroid user deaths people talk about are mostly current or former bodybuilding competitors, but I can think of 5 members of this board that have died since I joined ProM in 2008. Yes....some people are going to use large gear dosages no matter what you tell them...just like some people are going to smoke,drink,do rec drugs etc....but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with warning people about possible negative effects of using these things.

Warning people i agree 100 percent, preaching and name dropping everyday gets old. Warning people and being as safe as possible i agree, the preaching is a little much
 
Last edited:
DC i really respect your opinion, although i usually am the quiet lurker i have completely changed and evolved my opinion of what it means to ME to be healthy and in shape over the past 6 months. Do you think that the majority of these deaths are due to the WEIGHT of the bodybuilder that is putting so much pressure on other organs?



I had bloodwork and a doctor appointment on May 15th of this year and at that point i weighed 236 (a decent amount of fat), with high triglycerides, good hdl was low. I somewhat freaked out when I put all of these together being that i was 31 and just running TRT for the past year. So since then i've only done weights once a week with 30-45 mins of cardio 5-6 days a week. I now weigh the least i have weighted since i can remember, at 209. My goal is to get to 200 and to maintain that body weight. Supplements i have been taking are:

Citrus Burgamot

Krill Oil

Circumin

Aspirin

CoQ10.



I can barely fit into clothes that i use to wear, and if i do it looks silly, but I wanted to evolve my thinking on what I wanted to look like and what was sexy. I keep telling myself skinny is sexy lol


Hopefully he will answer you but here is my take:

It is possible to find out for yourself where you stand on the health spectrum with respect to weight. Get the necessary bloodwork, get heart, liver, or kidney scans, make sure blood pressure is low, don't have sleep apnea (and if you do, get a cpap), and make sure resting heart rate is below 70. If you check all these boxes, chances are you are fine. I do think that the heavier you are now compared to your starting point will negatively effect these things though eventually.
 
Not trying to save the world but look out for each other a bit. We share our experiences and help each other it's what the forum is for. There is not rite or wrong, winner or loser. We share our thoughts and experiences and guys can decide as adults.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

to some degree i am playing devils advocate, but i am also serious.

to try to save the world is idolistic bs talk, just like all these threads essentially.

more is possible.

I would like to know what HIS suggestion is.
i know he is serious and has good intents, i think most here do too.

denial and laws have made things worse.
just facts.

more ppl will die and more bad shit will happen from all the aas abuse. fact? idk, probably. lol

so, do we just watch n post R.I.P. bro?

guide us.

lol
;)
 
DC i really respect your opinion, although i usually am the quiet lurker i have completely changed and evolved my opinion of what it means to ME to be healthy and in shape over the past 6 months. Do you think that the majority of these deaths are due to the WEIGHT of the bodybuilder that is putting so much pressure on other organs?

I had bloodwork and a doctor appointment on May 15th of this year and at that point i weighed 236 (a decent amount of fat), with high triglycerides, good hdl was low. I somewhat freaked out when I put all of these together being that i was 31 and just running TRT for the past year. So since then i've only done weights once a week with 30-45 mins of cardio 5-6 days a week. I now weigh the least i have weighted since i can remember, at 209. My goal is to get to 200 and to maintain that body weight. Supplements i have been taking are:
Citrus Burgamot
Krill Oil
Circumin
Aspirin
CoQ10.

I can barely fit into clothes that i use to wear, and if i do it looks silly, but I wanted to evolve my thinking on what I wanted to look like and what was sexy. I keep telling myself skinny is sexy lol

Ive said it before on another thread...if longevity is the goal then bodyBUILDING is the wrong way to go about it. With that said we all decided to be bodybuilders and Im not changing my mind either. Alot of these guys dying were massive but pro bodybuilders are all massive so.... if it was just about bodyweight....I think we would see alot more retired pro football players dropping dead of heart attacks and kidney failure than we do. I think bodyweight has something to do with it yes...but its more about massive amounts of steroids and to a bigger extent steroids and rec drugs, steroids and painkillers nsaids. I tend to think a 240 lb Jay Cutler walking around lean at 5'9" is way better off than some guy at 5'9" who is 240 at 25-30% bodyfat. I see alot of these young guys keep saying the same thing too..."everyone over 40 years of age should drop down to 200lbs"...LOLOL yea let me know how that works out for you when you get to 40. You are going to give up 20 years of hard earned muscle at that point? No you wont. Now if you want to talk about becoming a lean cardio machine and getting bodyfat percentage in a very low percentage Im with you but give up lifting for the sake of a bodyweight? No thats unhappiness for the majority of longtime lifters. Any bodybuilder past 40 years of age who wants to do lower dosage and keep his bodyfat somewhat around with Dwayne Johnson is doing...more power to you man....you keep doing your thing
 
in all respect bud...
so what is it you the propose?
should we make steroids MORE illegal? :rolleyes:

again in all respect to the 4 points they are not entirely true.

yes you provide some examples of ppl we know who died. for every one of those im sure we have 10 unknown drugs monkies doing exactly or more then one of if not all of those 4 things combined. and livign until who knows when.

im not arguing and do not disagree with the fact that doing all those things are dumb, but we keep beating that horse, nothing changes. lol

i am sort of playing devils advocate but seriously where are you taking this?

since steroids became ILLEGAL use and availability has INCREASED.

sooooooooo????

what then?

:cool:
;)
:D

again to my tobacco point. we have how many examples of how it will kill us, yet entirely free to use.

school us please.

:sta:-wars

Your looking to far into what i said. I propose that people simply proceed with caution...because alot of guys have been brainwashed by social media "stars" that nothing can happen to them even if they use grams upon grams of stuff....when thats not the truth of the matter. I not in the least talking about legality or anything like that.
 
Warning people i agree 100 percent, preaching and name dropping everyday gets old. Warning people and being as safe as possible i agree, the preaching is a little much

thousands of nameless faceless people have died over the years directly related to steroid use. I know of 20 guys alone personally, that I started in the game with or were in it a few years prior, that are dead today -cause they never took that step to save themselves.
All Dante is saying is to look at things realistically and take care of health, people can still use anabolics but not the reckless shit going on today.

Dallas and Rich are both dead from steroids and nobody wants to admit it.
 
i mean this in the best way possible. lol
:love:

but we know!

we
we here
lol

so how do we, this tiny retard group of online durg nerds how do we show society at large some shit that is basically known and available? we for the most part all grow up with... drugs are bad, dont take them, they are illegal and bad for you.

and...
here we are.

lol

and then?

Great posts from LK3 above.

I respect the message of sensible usage and it needs to be repeated. Putting training and diet before drugs needs to be promoted by all. But we constantly get guys are in denial etc. Maybe elsewhere but they would have to be completely brain dead to be in denial on here as the same thing is posted again and again. Most of it is common sense too.

JJ highlighted what I always state about weight (aas make big weight more possible). Some guys literally think if they are on TRT most of the year weighing 250+ and older they are fine and no you will die young too. Common sense guys and yes let's promote health and sensible usage and warn of the dangers but the constantly your in deniel posts get very old.

Personally I also don't like it when guys get flamed for using high doses on here. Yes warn them and explain you don't need so much but some guys know and are happy to play that risk and this is a steroid/bodybuilding board with many wannabee freaks so it's their life even if you disagree with it. Granted some may give the rest of us a bad name but for the majority it's simply their way and constantly demonizing them is wrong.

We all know steroids are bad as are many things such as smoking. If some guy wants to use 5 grams and/or smoke 50 per day that's his issue.
 

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