I have to disagree with this somewhat. I think the vascularity look only comes if you have those genetics or you just happen to eat really strict all the time. Most likely both. Great genetics and strict eating. I say this because steroids have done ZERO for me as far as changing how my muscle "looks". I have gotten bigger and stronger over the years but that is it. As far as how my muscle looks it has changed none. Or I guess more directly how my skin looks.
In full disclosure I don't eat strictly. I'm sorry but I like to live. And how some of you guys eat the exact same shit every day and nothing else is beyond me. I have a friend at the gym and he eats like that. And yes he has that "look" to his muscle and skin. But he also has 20 inch lean arms. Once again genetics and yes his strict eating. But its mainly his genetics. He literally has not had any type of fast food in over 5 years. Not even one french fry. Fuck that. I gotta live. I stand by what I always say. Genetics are 98% of it all. Everything else is only 2%. At least when it comes to that "look" and how big you get. Drugs won't do shit to help you get that "look" if you don't have the genetics. I am proof of it.
I have to disagree with this somewhat. I think the vascularity look only comes if you have those genetics or you just happen to eat really strict all the time. Most likely both. Great genetics and strict eating. I say this because steroids have done ZERO for me as far as changing how my muscle "looks". I have gotten bigger and stronger over the years but that is it. As far as how my muscle looks it has changed none. Or I guess more directly how my skin looks.
In full disclosure I don't eat strictly. I'm sorry but I like to live. And how some of you guys eat the exact same shit every day and nothing else is beyond me. I have a friend at the gym and he eats like that. And yes he has that "look" to his muscle and skin. But he also has 20 inch lean arms. Once again genetics and yes his strict eating. But its mainly his genetics. He literally has not had any type of fast food in over 5 years. Not even one french fry. Fuck that. I gotta live. I stand by what I always say. Genetics are 98% of it all. Everything else is only 2%. At least when it comes to that "look" and how big you get. Drugs won't do shit to help you get that "look" if you don't have the genetics. I am proof of it.
When I googled his name an old thread popped up. Guys on the thread were arguing on whether or not steroids had anything to do with his death. I guess little has changed in 19 years.https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/misc.fitness.weights/b1jjcsDzWsUBodybuilder Profiles
Curtis Leffler
NameCurtis Leffler
Participated in the following shows*
ContestPlacePics?
1996 IFBB North American Championships7th
1996 NPC USA Bodybuilding & Figure Championships10th
1995 NPC Nationals5th
1995 IFBB North American Championships
When I googled his name an old thread popped up. Guys on the thread were arguing on whether or not steroids had anything to do with his death. I guess little has changed in 19 years.https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/misc.fitness.weights/b1jjcsDzWsU
Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....
I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc
Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....
I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc
I think he just wants to make it aware to guys that may be unaware or trying to look the other way.
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Damn Ive been around forever....Im on that thread. He was a good dude...it was very shocking when he died. We used to talk on the phone alot, he had some ideas unique to himself. What happened in that thread is the same thing that is happening now. People who juice dont want to hear that anything bad can come from it so they will argue til they are blue in the face to convince themselves and others everything is going to be A-OK. Dont worry, Its congenital, its this its that. Alot of people are getting pissed at the older guys saying "Hey watch out here"...and the younger guys are "its bullshit it wont happen to me"...its very easy for some anonymous name guy on a message board to have no "skin in the game" here......they are just some anonymous guy who nobody knows from Adam and these people are just pictures and names to them. Imabadman knew Rich, Emeric knew alot of these people....myself I knew Curtis, talked to Curtis alot in the 90's. I saw Mattarrazzo out at clubs, he and I dated the same girl, Matt Duvall inquired with me to train him, I used to see Nasser down here in San Diego here and there, I ran into and talked to Art Atwood in Vegas, my gf handed Anthony D'arrezzo his trophy at a major show, I did the last interview with Don Ross.....these guys are all dead. The repetitiveness of it starts adding up and its not just pics and names on a computer. Its a big difference when people start dropping that you personally know over the years than it is when you just read their name on the computer screen.
I think there is something like 400 plus pro bodybuilders...I believe there has been something close to 40 who have died of heart and kidney complications now. Im not even counting the guys who are still living with heart complications like David Dearth, Marcus Haley etc etc etc... in my graduating class in high school i think there were close to 400 people in that class....I know of one guy who is dead...from cancer. I mean its not hard to look at the numbers and draw some conclusions....
I feel incredibly strongly about the following. You can bury your head in the sand or you can OBSERVE and make some definitive conclusions.
This is your choices and again all you have to do is observe and the truth is very very clear.
You need to choose whether you are an athlete in this bodybuilding endeavor or you are a (ill say it differently for you P) a polypharmacy addict. Because in my opinion these down below are facts.
1) You cannot take steroids and take recreational drugs and live long..it wont happen and a slew of the guys who are on the deceased list took speed drugs, GHB, downers, heroin etc with steroids (even previous to steroids in some cases they exchanged recreational drugs for huge amounts of steroids...and paid the piper)
2) You cannot take steroids and take a bunch of nsaids or painkillers longterm and live long...been proven without a shadow of a doubt by both bodybuilders and wrestlers
3) You cannot take massive amounts of steroids even with a clean lifestyle otherwise and live long...{Nasser and a bunch of these other guys were not using recreational drugs...but they were thinking no amount of juice could hurt them and got proven otherwise in spades}
4) You can use this stuff and be an athlete with it and be respectable to yourself and your health, and do everything in your power to counter the adverse side effects and (probably) live a long life...bloodwork, cardio, mostly clean eating etc, concentrating on being lean as a bodybuilder as you age etc
in all respect bud...
so what is it you the propose?
should we make steroids MORE illegal?
again in all respect to the 4 points they are not entirely true.
yes you provide some examples of ppl we know who died. for every one of those im sure we have 10 unknown drugs monkies doing exactly or more then one of if not all of those 4 things combined. and livign until who knows when.
im not arguing and do not disagree with the fact that doing all those things are dumb, but we keep beating that horse, nothing changes. lol
i am sort of playing devils advocate but seriously where are you taking this?
since steroids became ILLEGAL use and availability has INCREASED.
sooooooooo????
what then?
again to my tobacco point. we have how many examples of how it will kill us, yet entirely free to use.
school us please.
:sta:-wars
Yes....things like tobacco and alcohol are totally legal. Keep in mind that thousands die every year from cancer due to smoking. AA meetings are going on every night of the week for people that want to stop drinking. Rehab centers are full of alcoholics too. Jails have thousands of inmates in for DUI or alcohol related offenses. The steroid user deaths people talk about are mostly current or former bodybuilding competitors, but I can think of 5 members of this board that have died since I joined ProM in 2008. Yes....some people are going to use large gear dosages no matter what you tell them...just like some people are going to smoke,drink,do rec drugs etc....but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with warning people about possible negative effects of using these things.
DC i really respect your opinion, although i usually am the quiet lurker i have completely changed and evolved my opinion of what it means to ME to be healthy and in shape over the past 6 months. Do you think that the majority of these deaths are due to the WEIGHT of the bodybuilder that is putting so much pressure on other organs?
I had bloodwork and a doctor appointment on May 15th of this year and at that point i weighed 236 (a decent amount of fat), with high triglycerides, good hdl was low. I somewhat freaked out when I put all of these together being that i was 31 and just running TRT for the past year. So since then i've only done weights once a week with 30-45 mins of cardio 5-6 days a week. I now weigh the least i have weighted since i can remember, at 209. My goal is to get to 200 and to maintain that body weight. Supplements i have been taking are:
Citrus Burgamot
Krill Oil
Circumin
Aspirin
CoQ10.
I can barely fit into clothes that i use to wear, and if i do it looks silly, but I wanted to evolve my thinking on what I wanted to look like and what was sexy. I keep telling myself skinny is sexy lol
Not trying to save the world but look out for each other a bit. We share our experiences and help each other it's what the forum is for. There is not rite or wrong, winner or loser. We share our thoughts and experiences and guys can decide as adults.
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DC i really respect your opinion, although i usually am the quiet lurker i have completely changed and evolved my opinion of what it means to ME to be healthy and in shape over the past 6 months. Do you think that the majority of these deaths are due to the WEIGHT of the bodybuilder that is putting so much pressure on other organs?
I had bloodwork and a doctor appointment on May 15th of this year and at that point i weighed 236 (a decent amount of fat), with high triglycerides, good hdl was low. I somewhat freaked out when I put all of these together being that i was 31 and just running TRT for the past year. So since then i've only done weights once a week with 30-45 mins of cardio 5-6 days a week. I now weigh the least i have weighted since i can remember, at 209. My goal is to get to 200 and to maintain that body weight. Supplements i have been taking are:
Citrus Burgamot
Krill Oil
Circumin
Aspirin
CoQ10.
I can barely fit into clothes that i use to wear, and if i do it looks silly, but I wanted to evolve my thinking on what I wanted to look like and what was sexy. I keep telling myself skinny is sexy lol
in all respect bud...
so what is it you the propose?
should we make steroids MORE illegal?
again in all respect to the 4 points they are not entirely true.
yes you provide some examples of ppl we know who died. for every one of those im sure we have 10 unknown drugs monkies doing exactly or more then one of if not all of those 4 things combined. and livign until who knows when.
im not arguing and do not disagree with the fact that doing all those things are dumb, but we keep beating that horse, nothing changes. lol
i am sort of playing devils advocate but seriously where are you taking this?
since steroids became ILLEGAL use and availability has INCREASED.
sooooooooo????
what then?
again to my tobacco point. we have how many examples of how it will kill us, yet entirely free to use.
school us please.
:sta:-wars
Warning people i agree 100 percent, preaching and name dropping everyday gets old. Warning people and being as safe as possible i agree, the preaching is a little much
i mean this in the best way possible. lol
but we know!
we
we here
lol
so how do we, this tiny retard group of online durg nerds how do we show society at large some shit that is basically known and available? we for the most part all grow up with... drugs are bad, dont take them, they are illegal and bad for you.
and...
here we are.
lol
and then?