Raloxifene

[Swifto]

I have pre existing gyno that Im putting off surgery for. I always took nolva in addition to an AI on all my blasts for several years. Sheer paranoia I guess. Last year, though, I had a bad blood clot which developed into a PE so Ive stayed away since recovering from that due to the increased risk of clots in people with a history. Ive noticed a significant boost in gains and pumps since then. Could very well be placebo but I tend to think my IGF1 levels have started peaking higher since dropping the nolva. No bloodwork to back it up. Pure broscience.

For those 2 reasons I will never use a SERM again. Just food for thought. I know many guys prefer nolva to AIs because of the lipid impact of AIs.

In this study comparing Tamoxifen and Raloxifene at varied doses, Tamoxifen lowered IGF-1 in healthy males at 25%.

Tamoxifen was dosed at 10mg/ED for 2 weeks and then 20mg/ED for 2 weeks.

Ralox 60mg/ED for 2 weeks, then 120mg/ED for 2 weeks.

Ralox did not significantly decrease IGF, unlike Tamox. So use 60mg/ED Ralox if you're worried about IGF.

What else can we take from this study?

Tamoxifen is better than Ralox at raising endogenous Test in healthy males (knew that anyway).

Tamox increased SHBG levels significantly. Ralox didn't.

 

[Swifto]

In this study comparing Tamoxifen and Raloxifene at varied doses, Tamoxifen lowered IGF-1 in healthy males at 25%.

Tamoxifen was dosed at 10mg/ED for 2 weeks and then 20mg/ED for 2 weeks.

Ralox 60mg/ED for 2 weeks, then 120mg/ED for 2 weeks.

Ralox did not significantly decrease IGF, unlike Tamox. So use 60mg/ED Ralox if you're worried about IGF.

What else can we take from this study?

Tamoxifen is better than Ralox at raising endogenous Test in healthy males (knew that anyway).

Tamox increased SHBG levels significantly. Ralox didn't.

I should not that the above is healthy eugondal males.

What happens in healthy males given exogenous testosterone of 300mg Test Enan and those given Nandrolone (Deca) to IGF? See below:

Study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7690364/

Clinical Trial

J Clin Endocrinol Metab

. 1993 Sep;77(3):776-9.
doi: 10.1210/jcem.77.3.7690364.
Testosterone Administration Increases Insulin-Like Growth factor-I Levels in Normal Men
C J Hobbs 1, S R Plymate, C J Rosen, R A Adler
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 7690364
• DOI: **broken link removed**

Abstract
Although testosterone (T) administration can increase insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) when administered to hypogonadal men, no studies have examined whether this occurs in normal men. The present study was undertaken to determine if an increase in IGF-I may be part of the anabolic effect of androgens. We enrolled 11 normal men in a randomized, double-blinded cross-over study. Subjects were assigned to receive either T enanthate (TE) (300 mg im, each week) or nandrolone (ND) decanoate (300 mg im, each week) for 6 weeks. After a washout period subjects were administered the alternate treatment. Pre- and posttreatment serum was analyzed for IGF-I by RIA after acid-ethanol extraction. Results expressed as mean +/- SEM (Table 1). IGF-binding protein-3 was measured by RIA and was unchanged in the TE treatment and decreased significantly after ND treatment. Although GH levels were not significantly different after either TE or ND treatment, they tended to increase after TE treatment (1.23 +/- 0.28 ng/mL vs. 3.3 +/- 1.03 ng/mL) but remained unchanged after ND treatment (1.68 +/- 0.68 ng/mL vs. 1.89 +/- 0.64 ng/mL). Serum total T levels increased 32 +/- 0.05 nmol/L in the TE-treated men, but fell by 7 +/- 0.02 nmol/L in the ND-treated men (P < 0.0001). Serum estradiol levels rose by 193.04 +/- 19.82 pmol/L in the TE-treated men although falling by 50.65 +/- 34.50 pmol/L in the ND-treated men (P < 0.0002). These data indicate that when normal men are given TE, serum IGF-I levels increase after 6 weeks of treatment. Treatment with ND did not change serum levels of IGF-I but did decrease the level of the major serum IGF-BP and therefore the level of bioavailable IGF-I may be increased in the ND group.

 

[phoenix2]

Ralox never worked for me. And i've taken up to 120 mg daily of pharma evista.
If i want my chest to look the best (i have pubertal gyno since i was 13) masteron + aromasin do wonders, but i have to say goodbye to my dick and joints.
So surgery is my only choice.

 

[DrBeefcake777]

Ralox never worked for me. And i've taken up to 120 mg daily of pharma evista.
If i want my chest to look the best (i have pubertal gyno since i was 13) masteron + aromasin do wonders, but i have to say goodbye to my dick and joints.
So surgery is my only choice.

I hear ya bro. I got some when I had cancer at 17 and luckily for me my chest is flat still and I had smaller nips before, so my chest still looks decent. However it does hurt every now and then and I think next year is the year Im gonna get it snipped out. Ive had it literally half of my life and hormones never worsen it.

I suppose when I had my testicular cancer my hormones went fucking crazy. Way crazier than any injectable hormone has ever made them. If Id known about anti-Es and anti-prog meds Id have stopped it then.

 

[phoenix2]

I hear ya bro. I got some when I had cancer at 17 and luckily for me my chest is flat still and I had smaller nips before, so my chest still looks decent. However it does hurt every now and then and I think next year is the year Im gonna get it snipped out. Ive had it literally half of my life and hormones never worsen it.

I suppose when I had my testicular cancer my hormones went fucking crazy. Way crazier than any injectable hormone has ever made them. If Id known about anti-Es and anti-prog meds Id have stopped it then.

Testicular cancer usually shots up hcg levels (yes the same hcg we take via injection) and hcg increase aromatase activity and estradiol.
I too have to go under knives because chronically crashing e2 levels just to not get sore nipples is not healthy at all.

 

[FrancisK]

I remember reading that Ralista failed quality control testing like 3 times in a row a few years back so most places didn't stock it. Doesn't look like Cipla has rectified the issue since then. Shame.

As in it was bunk or it had extra shit in it?

That would explain a lot, my stash of it feels like it doesn't do shit....

 

[hugostiglitz87]

MA has legit ralox

 

[Bluehighlighter]

Anecdotally I can tell you that Ralox cleared up existing gyno that taking 25-50mg of tamox for a week or two didn't. I prefer ralox as a treatment but tamoxifen is better as a preventative measure. That said, I hate how moody tamox makes me. I'd like to pretend it doesn't but it definitely has a negative effect.

 

[jaxino]

I don't know why but everytime I add 20mg Nolvadex to a cycle because gyno flare-up in 2 weeks I drop a lot of water weight.... It really drys me up like nothing else. I never use ais, only Seen but I would say... 4 weeks a year.

A couple of times I used Raloxifene (Evista), but it didn't do the same thing, gyno went back faster, I felt better than on Nolva which sometimes makes me feel a bit dizzy, but it didn't dry me up at all....

For what I remember Nolvadex is an inefficient estrogen and it binds everywhere on estrogen receptors... But no idea on how Raloxifene works...

 

[Stewie]

I don't know why but everytime I add 20mg Nolvadex to a cycle because gyno flare-up in 2 weeks I drop a lot of water weight.... It really drys me up like nothing else. I never use ais, only Seen but I would say... 4 weeks a year.

A couple of times I used Raloxifene (Evista), but it didn't do the same thing, gyno went back faster, I felt better than on Nolva which sometimes makes me feel a bit dizzy, but it didn't dry me up at all....

For what I remember Nolvadex is an inefficient estrogen and it binds everywhere on estrogen receptors... But no idea on how Raloxifene works...

Very similar to Tamoxifen. Has agonistic and antagonistic interactions with the estrogen receptor in different anatomical locations throughout the body.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I don't know why but everytime I add 20mg Nolvadex to a cycle because gyno flare-up in 2 weeks I drop a lot of water weight.... It really drys me up like nothing else. I never use ais, only Seen but I would say... 4 weeks a year.

A couple of times I used Raloxifene (Evista), but it didn't do the same thing, gyno went back faster, I felt better than on Nolva which sometimes makes me feel a bit dizzy, but it didn't dry me up at all....

For what I remember Nolvadex is an inefficient estrogen and it binds everywhere on estrogen receptors... But no idea on how Raloxifene works...

yeah its annoying when you add a SERM and then have to piss like 4 times that night. Literally pissing water weight out, which is nice as far as drying you out/appearance wise but annoying as far as needing to piss like 3x as normal for 24 hours lol

 

[jaxino]

yeah its annoying when you add a SERM and then have to piss like 4 times that night. Literally pissing water weight out, which is nice as far as drying you out/appearance wise but annoying as far as needing to piss like 3x as normal for 24 hours lol

Yesssss it's like a diuretic!
But if I run it with 300 TestE After a while I have foggy brain... Very annoying

 

[MR. BMJ]

Would a slightly lower dosed combo of Ralox/Tamox be a better choice, rather than using one by itself?

Figured i'd ask.

 

[b_cornelius]

The newer SERMs have sortta been deemed "not as good for gyno as tamoxifen, not as good for PTC as Clomid," but they don't lower your IGF as much as tamoxifen. They're sorta in between, each it's own.
I like to point out the fact that people used tamoxifen as an adjunct to Proviron because Proviron wasn't a solid aromatase inhibitor. Today we have better options for AIs.
Also I am interested in the properties of RAD140 as an ER modulator through "crosstalk" with the AR. There have already been legitimate investigations about breast cancer treatment.
Sorry, didn't address the point. I'd rather add RAD as another entire sort of estrogen modulator while being an effective androgen agonist. Or I'd get a better AI. Also consider your IGF, there are many other options than higher tamoxifen doses.