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RANT: Over-engineered equipment, the latest trend

interesting. i always found those to be rough on my rotator cuffs. pretty much all of the old Nautilus pec-deck machines were designed this way except the one that had long cylindrical pads and you could do rear delts pushing your elbows into them.
Luckily for myself I never felt any strain in my rotator cuff. With extended arm flys I feel it most in the clavicular head. With the bent arm equipment I can really target the inner pectoral attached to the sternum.
 
here's some food for thought and this is not to put down anyone on the functional bandwagon (just another take on it): some olympic weightlifters have some of the highest vertical jumps of all athletes across the board. most do very few lifts and some teams (Bulgarians) were noted for only doing three lifts in their training, none of which would be considered "functional" by today's standards.

I'm not sure i've ever heard a great definition for functional training actually yet. Is a squat more functional for volleyball player? Or is a lunge more functional for them? What if they have an injury and can't squat? or lunge? If the leg press is the only exercise you could safely and comfortably do and your sport requires quad strength wouldn't that be functional to an extent? If you had to walk a tightrope then wouldn't walking a tightrope be more advantageous than squattting on a Bosu ball? My point is, at least IMO, functional training, as I have heard it, is marketing and a "packaged" training philosophy (ie someone reinventing the wheel). I'd like to hear someone else's take on this.

Take the sport of wrestling for example and the poster boy right now for functional training is a two-time world champ in Freestyle and four time D1 champ. He believes functional training has made him a better wrestler and allowed him to focus on his wrestling without getting hurt in the weight room. The movements he performs are incredibly complex and one has to wonder at what point is that level of complexity extra for the sake of being extra?

Where do you draw the line for "too complex" for one's own good and also even reinventing the wheel vs. this is a fresh new take for the better? Mentzer's HIT IMO was a fresh new take for the better for many. Weider Training Principles not so much; recycled reinventing the wheel hype marketing packaged product. This industry really hasn't changed much over the decades with people trying to make a quick buck and maybe nobody did it better than Joe Weider (that's not to say he was totally evil, he did good things too).
 
here's some food for thought and this is not to put down anyone on the functional bandwagon (just another take on it): some olympic weightlifters have some of the highest vertical jumps of all athletes across the board. most do very few lifts and some teams (Bulgarians) were noted for only doing three lifts in their training, none of which would be considered "functional" by today's standards.

I'm not sure i've ever heard a great definition for functional training actually yet. Is a squat more functional for volleyball player? Or is a lunge more functional for them? What if they have an injury and can't squat? or lunge? If the leg press is the only exercise you could safely and comfortably do and your sport requires quad strength wouldn't that be functional to an extent? If you had to walk a tightrope then wouldn't walking a tightrope be more advantageous than squattting on a Bosu ball? My point is, at least IMO, functional training, as I have heard it, is marketing and a "packaged" training philosophy (ie someone reinventing the wheel). I'd like to hear someone else's take on this.

Take the sport of wrestling for example and the poster boy right now for functional training is a two-time world champ in Freestyle and four time D1 champ. He believes functional training has made him a better wrestler and allowed him to focus on his wrestling without getting hurt in the weight room. The movements he performs are incredibly complex and one has to wonder at what point is that level of complexity extra for the sake of being extra?

Where do you draw the line for "too complex" for one's own good and also even reinventing the wheel vs. this is a fresh new take for the better? Mentzer's HIT IMO was a fresh new take for the better for many. Weider Training Principles not so much; recycled reinventing the wheel hype marketing packaged product. This industry really hasn't changed much over the decades with people trying to make a quick buck and maybe nobody did it better than Joe Weider (that's not to say he was totally evil, he did good things too).
Very well said . I totally agree .
 
I am not nearly as strong as most competitive bodybuilders and somehow I can do nearly the entire stack on most Hoist machines. Perhaps there is a different line that you are speaking of, but I cannot imagine a legit strong bodybuilder being able to use these. And yes, the "functional" comment was made by a sales guy. He also told me this machine was the most functional in the gym since it involved a rope which you use in "real life" rather than a D-Handle or barbell. I told him that I would agree with him if I worked as a crew member on a sailboat.
View attachment 124098

LOL!!! That's part of the Hoist Mt. Everest series, right?... LOL

Yes, I use the full stack on most of their machines, too (which is why I like them best for Pump Sets in Fortitude training, which employ the lightest loads I'll use). I think the pulldown machine is relatively heavy and I use the full stack on the leg press for single leg movements.

TBH, I would say I use / have been using the full stack on most machine lines (50+% of selectorized machines in general) for decades now, so that limitation doesn't stand out me. That's a limitation for most selectorized (stack-based) machines.

Anyway, like many lines, some machines are better than others, and the Hoist Roc-It line is no exception... And I agree with you as far as not the machines not being "functional..." (That's a whole other topic, IMO, really, related to specificity of training.)

As far as commercial lines go, they are generally not made for those who are in the upper 10-20%-ile strength wise, so Hoist wasn't targeting this. Given maybe the top 10 most popular lines found in big box gyms to choose from in outfitting a gym, I'd pick a couple of the Hoist machines for personal use, but CERTAINLY not the entire line. I like the chest fly and the side lateral, which I wish were a bit heavier, but I think that could be remedied by adding weight to the seat / foot plates ala adding more body weight. I've use Hoist seated curl (and i think the dip machine) and added load by putting a fixed barbell across the foot rests on the platform in this way and it worked OK. Not an optimal solution, but neither is sticking a post welded to to pin in the stack to hold extra plates or pinning them to the stack.

-S
 
I have been a gym rat since 1984 and I have seen a LOT of trends come and go. The latest trend is for the worse. All the hoopla over "functional" training has somehow convinced the equipment manufacturers that you must multi-task when exercising. There are endless youtube videos of guys balancing on Bosu balls while doing a kettlebell, pistol squat/overhead press combo. As a result we now have machines that force you do random movements in the name of being "functional." I just visited a gym where the guy giving me a tour proudly said they replaced much of the "dated" Hammer Strength line for the more functional and modern Hoist Rockit line. This is where you do a curl, crunch, couch recline on every rep. And somehow every machine forces you to move...for the sake of moving. WTH is going on here! I understand I am a dinosaur who focuses on barbells and dumbbells. But, I am also a DC disciple so I really do appreciate good machines that allow me to hit failure without needing someone to pull the bar off my chest. Hammer Strength machines are a great example of very effective machines. But, this latest movement toward over-engineered equipment is a troubling trend in gyms that are trying to appear "modern." Here are some examples of what I see at commercial gyms in my area, and HOIST is the biggest offender. I think they somehow inked a deal with some major chains for a reduced price if they purchase in bulk, because I see older (good) machines being replaced with this stuff on a regular basis:

1_detail.gif (400×400) (sport-tiedje.com)

1_detail.gif (400×400) (sport-tiedje.com)

RS-1103-600.gif (600×600) (mjd.fr)

while I completely get your point, the machines in thepics ain’t toogood of an example of this. Youre not doing two things at once (curl and crunch) but instead the seat pivots because of that curl or pressing movement therefore changing the angle during the movement.

For some this might be irritating as fuck tho.
 
Tell ya what, i was on some first gen. Nautilus pieces recently, a double chest, triceps extension, and biceps curl (the one where your arms are basically parallel to the floor) and holy shit! These things weigh a ton and are like little tanks but man do they feel good. Excellent movement path and very smooth. A million times better than all of the Life Fitness crap i've seen all over the place. Ironically, Life Fitness, Hammer, Nautilus, and Startrac are all the same company presently.
 
Tell ya what, i was on some first gen. Nautilus pieces recently, a double chest, triceps extension, and biceps curl (the one where your arms are basically parallel to the floor) and holy shit! These things weigh a ton and are like little tanks but man do they feel good. Excellent movement path and very smooth. A million times better than all of the Life Fitness crap i've seen all over the place. Ironically, Life Fitness, Hammer, Nautilus, and Startrac are all the same company presently.
My first experience with nautilus back in 1977 was with these exact machines along with a pullover, double shoulder and double leg extension-leg press machines...they were awesome!...I gained 10 pounds of muscle in a few months using them in a typical nautilus fashion (1 all out set per machine 3 days a week)...I also remember the basic "universal" bench press, shoulder press and leg press machines...
 

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