Researching AI's, I'd like see opinions

[Macro]

I would consider myself repaid if when you eventually start using AAS and become built like tank you don't become a tool or a violent thug. Become an ambassador for intelligent AAS use and self-responsibility.

nice....

 

[Ashop]

I'm 19 years old, have my diet in check, have my training in check,I get a little stronger every workout, but still want some more help. I still want to wait before going to the dark side. I was wanting to know what you guys think about products like novedex xt as a standalone. I've done some searches and many people like it, but I'm not sure about whether someone as young as me can benefit from it or any other AI's.

I would imagine at our age your natural hormone production is roaring,,,take advantage of your youth. All you need is diet,,training,,and sleep. You will grow like a weed.

 

[gelatine]

iprimate, I saw in the referenced study in the paper you linked that these guys were on 25-50mg every day for only 10 days. Do you know of any followups to that regarding increased risk factors for anything?

Following up with your reference, I found this:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/88/12/5951


Check out page 3, holy crap!!!

Free testosterone went from 9.5 average initially to 19.1 after only 10 days!

It would be pretty amazing to basically be able to have permanently high test and lowish estrogen with no sides and no real rebound period when you go off for $20-40 a month, but that's what it looks like we have here.

 

[iprimate]

iprimate, I saw in the referenced study in the paper you linked that these guys were on 25-50mg every day for only 10 days. Do you know of any followups to that regarding increased risk factors for anything?

Following up with your reference, I found this:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/88/12/5951


Check out page 3, holy crap!!!

Free testosterone went from 9.5 average initially to 19.1 after only 10 days!

It would be pretty amazing to basically be able to have permanently high test and lowish estrogen with no sides and no real rebound period when you go off for $20-40 a month, but that's what it looks like we have here.

Thanks for the paper. Anthony Roberts reproduces those charts in his cut-and-paste book.

IIRC there are a few papers where the treatment with AIs was longer-term. I vaguely recall one or two papers where obese men with estrogenic fat distributions were given an AI. There may be issues with bone density and elevated LDLs from long-term use but this is just conjecture on my part. I will see if I can find anything relevant.

 

[gelatine]

After further reading, it seems that estradiol must not be permanently lowered for too long due to bone density issues. However, the period for bone density issues to occur appears to be measured in months to years, and the positive bone density effects of lifting may need to be considered.

Additonally, the following study (http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S8756328204000596) does not concur with this link between estrogen and bone density, though well known in women, saying that for males "There was no significant difference in estradiol levels between controls and osteroporosis patients. ... This study therefore suggests that SHBG may play a key role in male patients with idiopathic or secondary osteoporosis." Exemestane lowers SHBG.

One thing to note is that after ten days of exemestane administration, estradiol was lowered 32+-29% for the population, whereas a single day's administraton lowered it 58+-21%. But most importantly, "contrary to the significant increase in testosterone observed after 10-d daily dosing, this change did not achieve statistical significance after a single oral dose."

So many variables to consider...

 

[Macro]

After further reading, it seems that estradiol must not be permanently lowered for too long due to bone density issues. However, the period for bone density issues to occur appears to be measured in months to years, and the positive bone density effects of lifting may need to be considered.

Additonally, the following study (http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S8756328204000596) does not concur with this link between estrogen and bone density, though well known in women, saying that for males "There was no significant difference in estradiol levels between controls and osteroporosis patients. ... This study therefore suggests that SHBG may play a key role in male patients with idiopathic or secondary osteoporosis." Exemestane lowers SHBG.

One thing to note is that after ten days of exemestane administration, estradiol was lowered 32+-29% for the population, whereas a single day's administraton lowered it 58+-21%. But most importantly, "contrary to the significant increase in testosterone observed after 10-d daily dosing, this change did not achieve statistical significance after a single oral dose."

So many variables to consider...

there will be tremendous difference between levels of those using exogenous testosterone and "natural" users of aromatase inhibitors (in this case steroidal ai exemestane).

also one must consider the genetic (aromatase polymorphism), age and body fat impacts on effects.


IMHO people have often maligned SHBG as a limiter, and it can be, but it also acts as a hormone storage depot. HIV patients using anavar and test cyp had lower levels of testosterone (as compared to those not using anavar) because of SHBG suppression.


there is IMO a bit too much emphasis on free test, and pursuit to the extent that it may be detrimental.

 

[iprimate]

So many variables to consider...

Indeed. I looked at the AI regimen for women receiving adjuvant therapy for estrogen dependent breast cancer (i.e. therapy given after the primary therapy to increase the chances of effecting a cure) and it typically runs for years. At this stage I am inclined to believe that you wouldn't have any problems if you ran Exemestane for a few months.

I am interested in running Exemestane and Ostarine (SARM) between cycles. Hopefully Ostarine will become more widely available soon.

 

[Macro]

Indeed. I looked at the AI regimen for women receiving adjuvant therapy for estrogen dependent breast cancer (i.e. therapy given after the primary therapy to increase the chances of effecting a cure) and it typically runs for years. At this stage I am inclined to believe that you wouldn't have any problems if you ran Exemestane for a few months.

I am interested in running Exemestane and Ostarine (SARM) between cycles. Hopefully Ostarine will become more widely available soon.

IMO ability to run AI indefinitely is all about the dose. Also phytoestrogens, particularly entero-diol/dione intake will be determinative.

because exemestane/aromasin is primarily peripheral in its inhibition, it is certainly more usuable for extended periods (indefinitely really, in those with even moderately elevated aromatase)