Tren is over rated as a mass builder imo. However while I was dieting it made me hard as nails, and my chest and neck looked like a map. Never been so vascular in my life. However all in all I have a love/hate relationsip with tren. It makes me moody, it doesn't let me sleep, it fucks with my sex drive even when on test and it fucks with my hairline. But it does make me look my best!