Restoring HPTA after years of steroid use

[dutch]

Only time will help you. Could take over a year to recover completly. If you are thinking of getting back on there is no point going that route. If you are not, then man up and ride it out. You can be fertile while on if thats the reason to come off.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Only time will help you. Could take over a year to recover completly. If you are thinking of getting back on there is no point going that route. If you are not, then man up and ride it out. You can be fertile while on if thats the reason to come off.

I'm afraid that seems to be the most likely explanation. Can't imagine feeling like this for over a year. Just scheduled an appt with a primary care doc and will hopefully get a referral to an endo who specializes in hormone replacement.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

As promised here are my monthly labs.

Still not quite there yet but feeling WAY better.

Getting partial nocturnal erections, having a lot of sexual dreams, and thinking about sex again, I take those as goods signs.

At the beginning of this month I started a new clomiphene protocol.
Day 1: 300mg
Day 2-30: 100mg
Day 30-whenever: 50-25mg

I have dropped all other herbal and useless shit. I have an endocrinologist appt next month, maybe he can set me straight.

As always any feedback or suggestions are appreciated, I hope this thread is helpful to someone out there.

 

[G.I.Bro]

Great thread guys, lots of good info.

Not to hijack, but what do you think is a reasonable recovery time for an average 30 year old after 1 year "ON" with proper PCT and HPTA supportive diet and supplements.

I mean how much MORE shut down are you after 3 months versus say 12? Really comes down to level of testicular atrophy in terms of slower recovery, right?

 

[mike3000l]

Kudos to you for being able to have sexual thoughts and get partial nocturnal wood with Low T, I would be shut down completely.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

G.I.,

Just to give you an idea, I was on for nearly 6 straight years before starting this tread. I think if I can reach the level of recovery I'm at after that many years of being shut down you should be able to just as quickly, if not quicker. Everyone's body is different though.

mike,

Thanks dude, I'm happy with my progress so far. Glad I stuck it out through the really tough months.

One supplement I forgot. I've been taking 3g D-Aspartate qd and just bumped it up to 6g qd.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Did any one try a drug like caber? Just curious?

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

I have some pramipexole on hand but haven't felt like I need to use it.

 

[dutch]

Def all good signs man. Looks like u just need more time. I would have thought your LH would be higher on the clomid though. I know from experience that the numbers are important too you they were for me too. After a certain point you have to let go and go more be how you feel. T levels go up and down during the day anyway. Good luck at the doc.

 

[keith1569]

As promised here are my monthly labs.

Still not quite there yet but feeling WAY better.

Getting partial nocturnal erections, having a lot of sexual dreams, and thinking about sex again, I take those as goods signs.

At the beginning of this month I started a new clomiphene protocol.
Day 1: 300mg
Day 2-30: 100mg
Day 30-whenever: 50-25mg

I have dropped all other herbal and useless shit. I have an endocrinologist appt next month, maybe he can set me straight.

As always any feedback or suggestions are appreciated, I hope this thread is helpful to someone out there.

How long were you on for to have that be effective

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

dutch,

Thanks man. I feel tons better so that's a really good sign. Hopefully in another month or two I'll be back to normal.

keith,

I started that protocol at the beginning of January. I've been on clomid for a few months now though. I have it all laid out at the beginning of this thread.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

A small update for everyone. No new lab work, probably going to hold off on that for a while.
My endo prescribed me testosterone injections, 200mg every 2 weeks. I'm going to split that into 50mg 2x/week. She wants me to do this for 3 months then come back and see her. Then we will start to taper down and see if my body can take over.
I'm going to be running 250iu HCG 2x/week, 25mg clomid qd, and 5mg naltrexone qhs.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

I thought you came off a long time ago?

 

[MaineGuy]

A small update for everyone. No new lab work, probably going to hold off on that for a while.
My endo prescribed me testosterone injections, 200mg every 2 weeks. I'm going to split that into 50mg 2x/week. She wants me to do this for 3 months then come back and see her. Then we will start to taper down and see if my body can take over.
I'm going to be running 250iu HCG 2x/week, 25mg clomid qd, and 5mg naltrexone qhs.

???? Please explain the rational for this. I thought you are trying to restore your natural production of test.

 

[benzoj]

I came off after an extended period on aas and it took a good year before my junk was back to normal.

 

[Adonis89]

You are just digging yourself a deeper hole.

Think about how the HPTA works, GNRH stimulates production of LH, which leads to testosterone production, right? What feeds back and controls GNRH production? Estradiol. Now where does ALL estradiol come from? Aromatization of testosterone.

Ok now look at your first labs, testosterone is only double digits, but E2 is somehow 40! There is only one way this is possible: hyperactive aromatase.

Everything you are doing is just causing aromatase to be MORE hyperactive. All the "positive" results on your future labs are meaningless, you are just artificially stimulating testosterone production. You are SO hyperactive that even with the aromasin and natty test you are STILL pushing 40 E2. This is because of your hyperactive asromatase AND testicular aromatase is going crazy under those megadoses of HCG.

The idea of "PCT" is to minimize the impact of the TRANSITION from exo test to endo test. There isn't a way to "jumpstart" your HPTA once you are off. HCG helps you from become sterile during AAS or TRT use, but it just further shuts you down by stimulating testicular aromatase if used in PCT or later. You gotta go back 20 years before most people believed the dogma of megadosing HCG after a cycle.

The only thing I think you may have some success with is the triptorelin, if you don't destroy it's positive effects with further suppression by AIs and SERMS.

Sorry to be harsh and not very optimistic, but I wouldn't want others to get fooled by this...

I agree with all of this.

While certain things can help restore the balance based on what's happening (known via labs) when coming off of AAS, it's counter-intuitive to interfere with the body restoring it's own balance of endocrine function.

It's very important NOT to have high E as the AAS clear your system. This will prevent/delay recovery.

low doses of serms can be useful for short periods of time to give a little wake up call to the pituitary, but low E will do the same, as the only way the body can raise E is via making testosterone.

I don't see a point in tapering test C/E as the ester metabolism itself creates a taper. They is just to make sure E is low as the test clears.

There was some research done that has shown (in rats, and I think primates as well) that prolonged suppression of the gonadal axis until the rats/primates were quite old, provided for a "preservation" effect on the sensitivity of the testicles and their ability to produce testosterone once restored (the rats/primates regained testosterone levels similar to that when they were young). I'm not sure how long it lasted, but this is likely due largely to LH sensitivity being elevated due to low/no LH signals for so long.

All this PCT stuff just slams the body with mixed signals.

 

[Wesley Inman]

I tried everything you have for a solid year, truthfully did not touch a thing..and it was a struggle, this was 3 years ago...

I went from 37 nanograms at start, to around 3-400 on a regular basis, while on PCT...same thing, we tried HCG (even though my doctor didn't want to or know how to prescribe it)

...tried Cialis...

...tried a combo of Clomid, HCG, Nolva, etc, etc...

While I stayed on PCT, everything improved..as soon as I stopped, everything decreased...You have always heard about a potential "negative feedback loop" and it is definitively a possibility...

So from where I stand I think you are wasting your time and energy in an effort to return to "normal" at a 3-400 level, not counting Free Test levels which are far more important.

My experience has shown me that when coming off you have two options, stay on PCT and stay at a low healthy level or go on HRT and stay at a moderate healthy level...

For me it was a no-brainer, 200mgs of Cyp got me to a level of about 500nano's tested each month..(which is still IMO lower then I would like) My doctor assured me he would get me to the 700-900 nano range, but my guess would be that would take 3-400 of cyp per week and he would not prescribe it...

Consider this please...For now I believe you are "fighting the tide" the second you let off, things will go to hell...I believe you are fighting a losing battle unless you enjoy staying on PCT year round??

Whats wrong with HRT?

 

[gear-unit]

i am 32 i have been off for 17weeks now after been on for almost a year.
i did not do pct after 3 weeks i felt like shit and was getting weak and small and fat. i did tapper down and i think that help a lot going from 200mg to zero than from 1g to zero

and after the 8weeks mark it all started to get back
after week 12 i felt great again and my strength went up.

270pound dead lift feel so heavy
now i am back to 420pounds again.

 

[BoostedSil80]

A small update for everyone. No new lab work, probably going to hold off on that for a while.
My endo prescribed me testosterone injections, 200mg every 2 weeks. I'm going to split that into 50mg 2x/week. She wants me to do this for 3 months then come back and see her. Then we will start to taper down and see if my body can take over.
I'm going to be running 250iu HCG 2x/week, 25mg clomid qd, and 5mg naltrexone qhs.

If you want to come off then just come off. Why would you start TRT after being off? You took a step forward and now you are going backwards. You are way too young for TRT. I'm 28 too. We all have to come off sometimes, and it's not a good feeling. Last time I came off I got teary-eyed watching "The Lion King" that part when Mufasa died (Man thats sad). But you will feel better if you just stop. I always feel HEALTHIER when I'm off cycle, and so should everyone. Anyone who says otherwise is lying or in denial (Unless they have naturally low T, they will feel better on TRT)

You are going to put the brakes on any progress you have made thus far as soon as you inject that doc prescribed cyp. You are 28..... TRT?

 

[Elvia1023]

Some guys really over complicate things... wow. I agree with kaladryn and adonis 100%. This is an old thread but adding all those extra hormones is only gonna delay your recovery. You are sending your body 101 different signals and it's probably thinking wtf. Sometimes after all that use you may never be back to normal. However I think a more simple protocol incorporating a serm and hcg would have been more efficient. If your estrogen was high then an AI would have been beneficial but not bang every pct med you can think of for a long duration

I done a blast and 8 month cruise then another blast and came off and I was fine doing it my way. Not saying that will work for everyone. Tapering down is good but banging in all those things when your still on test and dbol is pretty much pointless imo. I will say nolvadex sometimes gets forgotten about as we are always after the new and best thing but to me it is an amazing tool for recovery and a must to have on hand for any aas user. Goodluck with your recovery.. sounds like your doing much better

Damn just noticed your going on trt now... what was the point in coming off :banghead: You haven't given it enough time cos you have been running test etc so if you truly want to come off give it more time actually off hormones to see if you recover. If you can't fully recover then sure go on trt... I just think doing trt defeats your whole objective.