Restoring HPTA after years of steroid use

[MaineGuy]

Some guys really over complicate things... wow. I agree with kaladryn and adonis 100%. This is an old thread but adding all those extra hormones is only gonna delay your recovery. You are sending your body 101 different signals and it's probably thinking wtf. Sometimes after all that use you may never be back to normal. However I think a more simple protocol incorporating a serm and hcg would have been more efficient. If your estrogen was high then an AI would have been beneficial but not bang every pct med you can think of for a long duration

I done a blast and 8 month cruise then another blast and came off and I was fine doing it my way. Not saying that will work for everyone. Tapering down is good but banging in all those things when your still on test and dbol is pretty much pointless imo. I will say nolvadex sometimes gets forgotten about as we are always after the new and best thing but to me it is an amazing tool for recovery and a must to have on hand for any aas user. Goodluck with your recovery.. sounds like your doing much better

Damn just noticed your going on trt now... what was the point in coming off :banghead: You haven't given it enough time cos you have been running test etc so if you truly want to come off give it more time actually off hormones to see if you recover. If you can't fully recover then sure go on trt... I just think doing trt defeats your whole objective.

Elvia, it is even worse than that if you read it closely. His endo is putting him on TRT, then after 3 months start to taper him off and back on to his own production. I am still clueless as to this train of thought.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

What it came down to is that I was tired of feeling like shit. This is a temporary protocol. I'm not sure if she has seen this work or not before but we're going to give it a try.

 

[Adonis89]

I tried everything you have for a solid year, truthfully did not touch a thing..and it was a struggle, this was 3 years ago...

I went from 37 nanograms at start, to around 3-400 on a regular basis, while on PCT...same thing, we tried HCG (even though my doctor didn't want to or know how to prescribe it)

...tried Cialis...

...tried a combo of Clomid, HCG, Nolva, etc, etc...

While I stayed on PCT, everything improved..as soon as I stopped, everything decreased...You have always heard about a potential "negative feedback loop" and it is definitively a possibility...

So from where I stand I think you are wasting your time and energy in an effort to return to "normal" at a 3-400 level, not counting Free Test levels which are far more important.

My experience has shown me that when coming off you have two options, stay on PCT and stay at a low healthy level or go on HRT and stay at a moderate healthy level...

For me it was a no-brainer, 200mgs of Cyp got me to a level of about 500nano's tested each month..(which is still IMO lower then I would like) My doctor assured me he would get me to the 700-900 nano range, but my guess would be that would take 3-400 of cyp per week and he would not prescribe it...

Consider this please...For now I believe you are "fighting the tide" the second you let off, things will go to hell...I believe you are fighting a losing battle unless you enjoy staying on PCT year round??

Whats wrong with HRT?

Do you have knowledge of any family predisposition to hypogonadism? I realize that HRT/TRT is a relatively new practice, and that depending on your age, it may be unlikely that your father had any testing done with respect to his sex hormone endocrine function.

what's your age?

Are you eating a very low fat/low cholesterol diet?

Where are your E2 levels?

Do you have adrenal fatigue or elevated cortisol levels?

200mg cyp and only 500T - everyone's different but something seems off. Do you inject only once per week? Try 2-3x per week.

You may want to consider going back on at TRT levels for a bit, getting your E2 low, and then stopping the test, keeping E2 low and as the test clears try very low dose nolvadex maybe 25mg for 1-2 weeks. If your E2 rebounds you won't recover so keep it low throughout.

Take some Forskolin (high % extract) and some Bulbine.

Eat whole eggs, grass fed beef, cook in grass fed butter, eat a few brazil nuts before bed.

HCG will interfere with recovery

Recover starts in the mind.

Don't give up bro!

 

[Ben Stiller]

What it came down to is that I was tired of feeling like shit. This is a temporary protocol. I'm not sure if she has seen this work or not before but we're going to give it a try.

Based on your last bloodwork you were nearly there. All you need is a low dose serm and time. All your efforts will have been in vain when you start cycling test C and HCG now. Your doc is a dick. 200 mgs is not a trt dose by the way.

You were feeling like shit because you dosed the clomid way too high.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

How is it possible that 200 mg got you to only 500.

 

[ripped358]

Not to bring down hope but after my accident I came off after being on for years I tried everything for yes 5 years and nothing my levels were at 14 yes test levels after 5 years of pct and going to endocrinologist for a second opinion since i have my own degree .
Well basically I will need hrt for the rest of my life
So that being said I'm back to the drawing board .
I. Will just continue to cycle cause it makes me feel better both mentally and hgh physically.
So good luck .

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

Not to bring down hope but after my accident I came off after being on for years I tried everything for yes 5 years and nothing my levels were at 14 yes test levels after 5 years of pct and going to endocrinologist for a second opinion since i have my own degree .
Well basically I will need hrt for the rest of my life
So that being said I'm back to the drawing board .
I. Will just continue to cycle cause it makes me feel better both mentally and hgh physically.
So good luck .

What kind of accident did you have?

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Head injury?

 

[Elvia1023]

Elvia, it is even worse than that if you read it closely. His endo is putting him on TRT, then after 3 months start to taper him off and back on to his own production. I am still clueless as to this train of thought.

Just read again... your spot on... 10x worse.

OP people online like to play doctor and I am 99% saying go to your doctor and not use someones advice online effect that. However your doc really doesn't have a clue and I am shocked that is her plan for you. So you took all those things and of course felt crap. Now she wants to put you on trt for 3 months and back off again. I don't see her logic... perhaps going on trt and feeling better and trying again without all the hormones you used this time. I still don't see the logic. I would just use a serm at a low dose and see how you are in a few months.

 

[Wesley Inman]

How is it possible that 200 mg got you to only 500.

Good question If I knew then I would fix it...I have the "metabolic Doctor" you may have seen in MuscleMag, etc...He told me that mine and one other case he has seen this...Out of 300 clients. His other patient is worse,where 2-300mgs only got this guy to 400 levels and sub par Free Test levels...It is very possible, even if rare.

Everyone responds differently, and even when I used AAS I was a low responder, meaning 1K of test and after a few months I would only put on a few pounds...

Some people just don't respond well, while other's do...

That's the issue, there is not an exact science for each person's body...Metabolism, and many other factors come into play...also who knows if length of time, built immunity, etc, etc..has a role..

I think we are in unchartered territory..but I hope you don't think I would make such a thing up...I have far too much repor on forums and in my career to present such a claim unless it were true.

And it is 100mgs every 4 days to be exact....Watson.

 

[pesty4077]

In 33 years of BB, I have never ran that many things together. You are over thinking things. Stick to basics.

 

[kloan]

is it even worth it? what if after all that time trying to get things back to normal, nothing recovers? then what?

id rather just ride it out for as long as i can. my fear is that steroids may become less and less available in the future. then any of us who are always on (trt, blast n cruise, etc) are gonna be truly fucked.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Good question If I knew then I would fix it...I have the "metabolic Doctor" you may have seen in MuscleMag, etc...He told me that mine and one other case he has seen this...Out of 300 clients. His other patient is worse,where 2-300mgs only got this guy to 400 levels and sub par Free Test levels...It is very possible, even if rare.

Everyone responds differently, and even when I used AAS I was a low responder, meaning 1K of test and after a few months I would only put on a few pounds...

Some people just don't respond well, while other's do...

That's the issue, there is not an exact science for each person's body...Metabolism, and many other factors come into play...also who knows if length of time, built immunity, etc, etc..has a role..

I think we are in unchartered territory..but I hope you don't think I would make such a thing up...I have far too much repor on forums and in my career to present such a claim unless it were true.

And it is 100mgs every 4 days to be exact....Watson.

No I don't think you would make that up. I'm wonder if you a hyper excreter or a hypo metabolizer. I wonder if you would fair better doung ED Cyp injects or weekly undeconate injects
When you say metabol doc are you referring to Mario d Pasquale or whatever his name is, I heard him in super human radio and he knew his shit.
Crisler has talked a lot about hyper excreters before, he told with endogenous test I might be one since my levels were low but urinary levels were way above range. Meaning I was making it and then dumping it, but he said it was possible it was the St. John's wort I was taking at the time.
I think you should try a long water split very often. Maybe have a Rheims test to see the pathways the hormones are going in.
I am confused about who is who since memory people have told stories since the OP started the thread. I'm far from an expert in the least and know Less than others in this thread but just trying to hypothesize.

 

[Kaladryn]

There are mega studies on TRT, go check them out, you will see the standard deviation on dosage and test level is very low.

Although people are very different on the 'macro' level, at the molecular level, we are all nearly identical. If you DID metabolize testosterone much faster than than the average person, it would be easily identifiable by metabolites. This same hyper metabolism would also manifest many other effects.

This is an old debate, I suspect it generally comes from people trying to get doctors to prescribe them more test. It is MUCH more likely that pharm grade test would be underdosed, the doctor would lie and give you less than he says, or you hit scare tissue and the test gets stuck there, than anything else- and all of those things are HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[Wesley Inman]

Metabolic Doc, aka Doctor O'Connor, Here is a link to a discussion he has, he picks up around 33 minutes in the convo...
DASHOW104 THE METABOLIC DOCTOr THOMAS OCONNOR 05/03 by DASHOW10 | Blog Talk Radio

Simply- I am right there with ya on this, I believe I am metabolizing extremely quickly...and I wish I weren't because I am "self pay" meaning I pay everything in cash...My Script is $110 dollars so it makes no sense for me to try and get prescribed more..If I wanted to I'd just pay $30 bucks for UG test and blast that, but I am doing everything by the books and legal..On one note, I would much rather have 500 levels on the books then the 50-100 range I was at without HRT. If I could get away with 50mgs per week getting me to a 700..you better believe I would accept that..I'm all about cost effectiveness.

For the OP I think what Kaladryn is saying is pretty accurate 90% of the time..I think you can try a simple 200mgs per week regimen and it will work for 9 out of 10 users..

And also to add something meaningful to this thread for the OP...

In all my years of being on HRT and having bloodwork, I have never been prescribed more then 200mgs per week. I have never had any bad labs as far as liver values, triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, etc.. Never once has HRT shown to be bad for me in any way, shape or form...Just the opposite, my labs have been phenomenal as far as general health.

The only report I have heard otherwise is Charlie Sheen..He ran HRT cream and it made him wreck hotel rooms, his career and sleep with a bunch of hookers

So on a good note, you can go into your HRT optimistic...The whole 3 months on and off to me would just indicate an inexperienced endocriniologist.

 

[Kaladryn]

It is interesting to note that people who drink a lot often cause their liver to go into "high gear" and metabolize other things also much faster than normal. I'm definitely not saying it's impossible, just more rare than most might think.

 

[AnAboliKPiKe]

And also to add something meaningful to this thread for the OP...

In all my years of being on HRT and having bloodwork, I have never been prescribed more then 200mgs per week. I have never had any bad labs as far as liver values, triglycerides, cholesterol, etc, etc.. Never once has HRT shown to be bad for me in any way, shape or form...Just the opposite, my labs have been phenomenal as far as general health.

The only report I have heard otherwise is Charlie Sheen..He ran HRT cream and it made him wreck hotel rooms, his career and sleep with a bunch of hookers

So on a good note, you can go into your HRT optimistic...The whole 3 months on and off to me would just indicate an inexperienced endocriniologist.

Thanks dude, I'm just glad to be feeling more like myself now. This may not be the best plan of action but I'm OK with it until we figure something better out.

 

[KROD]

ok , i got a weird one for you guys. Ive been on for almost 2 years nonstop, first year on high doses and the last 8 months on trt doses using prop only ...a couple of months ago i noticed my body was feeling weird , shortness of breath , anxiety , no sexual drive so i said fuck this ..i got off EVERYTHING almost cold turkey and took my chances , regarless of how long and if i ever was going to recover ,im 34 btw..no PTC , i only took 1000ius of hcg the day i after i quit...it has been 2 weeks off everything and for the first time ever in 2 years im waking up with a hard on and been having nocturnal wood...test gotta be out of my system because i used prop and prop only for the last 8 months...anxiety gone , breathing back to normal, sexual drive came back..in just 2 weeks and no PTC after 2 years on...dont ask me how or what happened i have no idea...i'll get blood work done in another 3 weeks ....im only taking tribulus, fish oils , vitaminn c , u know otc shit...i might also add im eating a lot of healthy fats, seeds ,nuts , MD diet type

 

[Adonis89]

ok , i got a weird one for you guys. Ive been on for almost 2 years nonstop, first year on high doses and the last 8 months on trt doses using prop only ...a couple of months ago i noticed my body was feeling weird , shortness of breath , anxiety , no sexual drive so i said fuck this ..i got off EVERYTHING almost cold turkey and took my chances , regarless of how long and if i ever was going to recover ,im 34 btw..no PTC , i only took 1000ius of hcg the day i after i quit...it has been 2 weeks off everything and for the first time ever in 2 years im waking up with a hard on and been having nocturnal wood...test gotta be out of my system because i used prop and prop only for the last 8 months...anxiety gone , breathing back to normal, sexual drive came back..in just 2 weeks and no PTC after 2 years on...dont ask me how or what happened i have no idea...i'll get blood work done in another 3 weeks ....im only taking tribulus, fish oils , vitaminn c , u know otc shit...i might also add im eating a lot of healthy fats, seeds ,nuts , MD diet type

What happened is you did things right. You let the exogenous hormones clear, and the endogenous hormone re-balance themselves. Since you were on prop, and a low dose, E2 wasn't likely high. I'm not a fan of HCG, since it can shoot up estrogen levels, further suppress the hypothalamus-pituitary signalling and mess up recovery, but it looks like it did not cause complications for you.

You went "cold turkey" in the sense that you stopped abruptly, but you're dose was low and had been for some time. I think tapering off slowly is the key to better recovery. Not all this crazy dead-stop and take a bunch of other drugs PCT stuff.

 

[KROD]

What happened is you did things right. You let the exogenous hormones clear, and the endogenous hormone re-balance themselves. Since you were on prop, and a low dose, E2 wasn't likely high. I'm not a fan of HCG, since it can shoot up estrogen levels, further suppress the hypothalamus-pituitary signalling and mess up recovery, but it looks like it did not cause complications for you.

You went "cold turkey" in the sense that you stopped abruptly, but you're dose was low and had been for some time. I think tapering off slowly is the key to better recovery. Not all this crazy dead-stop and take a bunch of other drugs PCT stuff.

Well, your post makes a lot of sense.. but I honestly was expecting from 6 months to a year if i was gonna to recover 100% .. my erections sucked while on TRT doses , i do not think i achieved a full hard on if it wasnt for cialis or viagra..Now 2 weeks off everything im back 100% ...i do not get it...why test wasnt working for me in that aspect?? i will never know...shit , i might never be 240 again but i take this sex drive and erections anyday over a few pounds of muscle i tell you that much. ..plus i feel better overall...definitely roids were giving me anxiety big time and im not getting any younger..I will eat, exercise , and live a lifestyle that will recover if not actually better my HPTA....all the money i spent on juice through the year iwill now spend it on organic foods and stuff...hopefully i will never have to see another bottle of test in my future or at least in long time from now.