Restoring HPTA after years of steroid use

[benzoj]

KROD...I agree! I feel the same way about cycles, it was great while it lasted but cant do that shit forever without permanent damage to your sex drive. I stick with hgh & IGF for now who knows what the future holds. Unfortunatly it took me a lot longer than 2 weeks for my junk to come back, probably about a year.

 

[matt1164]

Well, your post makes a lot of sense.. but I honestly was expecting from 6 months to a year if i was gonna to recover 100% .. my erections sucked while on TRT doses , i do not think i achieved a full hard on if it wasnt for cialis or viagra..Now 2 weeks off everything im back 100% ...i do not get it...why test wasnt working for me in that aspect?? i will never know...shit , i might never be 240 again but i take this sex drive and erections anyday over a few pounds of muscle i tell you that much. ..plus i feel better overall...definitely roids were giving me anxiety big time and im not getting any younger..I will eat, exercise , and live a lifestyle that will recover if not actually better my HPTA....all the money i spent on juice through the year iwill now spend it on organic foods and stuff...hopefully i will never have to see another bottle of test in my future or at least in long time from now.

I agree with this. I have been running 120mgs of prop a week and my test levels came back a 2250 so I have real gear but I don't feel any libido boost at all anymore.

I have been debating coming off completely also. its not worth damaging myself long term. I'd rather be having sex everyday without using caber or viagra.

 

[Bump]

Good question If I knew then I would fix it...I have the "metabolic Doctor" you may have seen in MuscleMag, etc...He told me that mine and one other case he has seen this...Out of 300 clients. His other patient is worse,where 2-300mgs only got this guy to 400 levels and sub par Free Test levels...It is very possible, even if rare.

I've read all of his articles and a lot of his posts over at MD (when he used to post). I spoke with him and considered seeing him as a patient but the 3.5 hour drive stopped me.
He seems like a really cool guy. From watching his videos i'd guess that he's down to earth and a "no bullshit" type of guy in person?
He always came across as being very honest and having a sincere passion for his profession.
Have you found that to be the case?

 

[Bump]

Good question If I knew then I would fix it...I have the "metabolic Doctor" you may have seen in MuscleMag, etc...He told me that mine and one other case he has seen this...Out of 300 clients. His other patient is worse,where 2-300mgs only got this guy to 400 levels and sub par Free Test levels...It is very possible, even if rare.

Everyone responds differently, and even when I used AAS I was a low responder, meaning 1K of test and after a few months I would only put on a few pounds...

I recently figured out this balancing act. After going back and forth with my primary care Dr for several months trying to get my test levels down to an acceptable range. 6 months ago I was on 250mgs/week and after having blood drawn 4 days after my weekly injection my serum test was north of 1500.
4 rounds of bloodwork later (decreasing dose every time) I finally figured out that I need to drop down to 100mgs every 6 days and have blood drawn on the 3rd or 4th day in order to get my serum levels down in the upper 600's.
I agree with you that everyone is different and that everyone on HRT needs to figure out how they react to Test and what dose is going to keep them in a healthy range.
I'll be the first one to admit that I was taking too big of a dose for long-term HRT. I think a lot of guys make the same mistake.
I think that 90% of guys on self-administered HRT make the same mistake that I made- thinking that 200-250mgs is a healthy HRT dose and will put them in the 900-1000 range.
It seems that what I read for years and didn't want to accept is true- 75-100mgs of long-estered Test per week is a HRT dose and anything more than that is going to put your test numbers North of anything that your body could ever produce. I admit it, I was wrong, I learned a lesson.
In regards to you needing 200mgs to get you into the 500's, I believe it. I think you're definitely the exception to the rule but as you mentioned, everyone is different.
If you had 5-6 posts and hadn't mentioned Mr O'connor I'd be calling bullshit

 

[ChelseaNYC]

What happened is you did things right. You let the exogenous hormones clear, and the endogenous hormone re-balance themselves. Since you were on prop, and a low dose, E2 wasn't likely high. I'm not a fan of HCG, since it can shoot up estrogen levels, further suppress the hypothalamus-pituitary signalling and mess up recovery, but it looks like it did not cause complications for you.

You went "cold turkey" in the sense that you stopped abruptly, but you're dose was low and had been for some time. I think tapering off slowly is the key to better recovery. Not all this crazy dead-stop and take a bunch of other drugs PCT stuff.

I am new to this board, but this is one of the BEST threads I have read in a while.

I have always thought the PCT thing seemed a little off. I mean, they were using steroids for 40 years before people started doing this stuff, and many are alive today who look normal and have families. I sometimes wonder if the PCT dream does more harm than good.

All that said, I am considering Triptorelin if I have a had time recovering.

 

[Adonis89]

I am new to this board, but this is one of the BEST threads I have read in a while.

I have always thought the PCT thing seemed a little off. I mean, they were using steroids for 40 years before people started doing this stuff, and many are alive today who look normal and have families. I sometimes wonder if the PCT dream does more harm than good.

All that said, I am considering Triptorelin if I have a had time recovering.

Most people cycle medicines of all types. Medicines disrupt balances in the body. The body generally recovers afterward. While some things can prevent that if left unchecked, most things balance out again over time. Do doctors prescribe "post cycle therapy" for all other types of medicine? Generally no.

One can take steps to prevent a long post cycle recovery by keeping E2 LOW LOW LOW at the end of the cycle. A little bit of a SERM with some HCG can help bring things back IF recovery isn't happening on it's own with some diet and herbal support.

^^That's my approach.

 

[spartan]

Very interesting. I always like learning about how to recover effectively

 

[Zoobster]

There is 3 total tests for testosterone. What does the free bound one mean?? And than it gives a percentage.

 

[DK0223]

Very interesting. I always like learning about how to recover effectively

agreed

 

[DK0223]

Most people cycle medicines of all types. Medicines disrupt balances in the body. The body generally recovers afterward. While some things can prevent that if left unchecked, most things balance out again over time. Do doctors prescribe "post cycle therapy" for all other types of medicine? Generally no.

One can take steps to prevent a long post cycle recovery by keeping E2 LOW LOW LOW at the end of the cycle. A little bit of a SERM with some HCG can help bring things back IF recovery isn't happening on it's own with some diet and herbal support.

^^That's my approach.

well said. the body is a truly amazing thing and has the ability to recover from a lot of abuse/imbalances of hormones over a long period of time. that said, pct does have its place i believe. for someone who decides to come off for good, say some clomind and hcg, maybe sprinkle a little DAA in there as well could surely help to speed the recovery process up. now is all that 100% absolutely without a doubt NEEDED....my opinion is NO. just my .2, carry on now

 

[sauliuhas]

You are just digging yourself a deeper hole.

Think about how the HPTA works, GNRH stimulates production of LH, which leads to testosterone production, right? What feeds back and controls GNRH production? Estradiol. Now where does ALL estradiol come from? Aromatization of testosterone.

Ok now look at your first labs, testosterone is only double digits, but E2 is somehow 40! There is only one way this is possible: hyperactive aromatase.

Everything you are doing is just causing aromatase to be MORE hyperactive. All the "positive" results on your future labs are meaningless, you are just artificially stimulating testosterone production. You are SO hyperactive that even with the aromasin and natty test you are STILL pushing 40 E2. This is because of your hyperactive asromatase AND testicular aromatase is going crazy under those megadoses of HCG.

The idea of "PCT" is to minimize the impact of the TRANSITION from exo test to endo test. There isn't a way to "jumpstart" your HPTA once you are off. HCG helps you from become sterile during AAS or TRT use, but it just further shuts you down by stimulating testicular aromatase if used in PCT or later. You gotta go back 20 years before most people believed the dogma of megadosing HCG after a cycle.

The only thing I think you may have some success with is the triptorelin, if you don't destroy it's positive effects with further suppression by AIs and SERMS.

Sorry to be harsh and not very optimistic, but I wouldn't want others to get fooled by this...

Does triptorelin not further supress lh, and his lh is super mega low?
I was guessing that clomid, hmg, aromasin low dose, maybe would help?!

 

[b_cornelius]

Does triptorelin not further supress lh, and his lh is super mega low?
I was guessing that clomid, hmg, aromasin low dose, maybe would help?!

Triptorelin, at therapeutic doses, doesn't suppress LH. Therapeutic doses are from 100-200mcg (0.1-.2mg). That said, if you take an overdose of the stuff, then it overloads the system and suppresses LH. An overdose is considered several milligrams.

For cases such as this, even Triptorelin can fall short of complete HPTA restoration. In such a case, it is acceptable to administer a monthly injection of Triptorelin.