Revamping my training, how did you know it was time to jump off of the high intensity, train, and go the higher volume route?

[qbkilla]

I made the switch this year after watching an old ESPN video profiling Serge Nubret from the 90s. I was blown away by the size and condition he had maintained into his 50s and then dug deeper and saw that he maintained it until he was 70 and I was blown away. The training sounded fun, short rest times, big pumps! My physique has responded extremely well to this type of training as I’m rocking easily the best physique of my life and my brother has taken really well to it as well. I feel so much less beat up and just feel so good after every training session! I think it’s also worth noting that Lee Priest, Jay Cutler and Robbie Robinson train similarly and have maintained fantastic physiques post-retirement and in Robby’s case, at a very advanced age. Really just seems like a great way to train for longevity in the sport.

What's your volume like? I did nubrets arm workout once, holy hell, it made mountaindog arms feel like low volume lol

 

[davetheanimal]

What's your volume like? I did nubrets arm workout once, holy hell, it made mountaindog arms feel like low volume lol

Yeah the volume is crazy high. I do 16-32 sets per body part per session depending on what body part and how I’m doing that day. I am generally hitting every body part twice a week.

 

[Flocci]

Yeah the volume is crazy high. I do 16-32 sets per body part per session depending on what body part and how I’m doing that day. I am generally hitting every body part twice a week.

Could you give an example of how a a leg and a chest workout looks? hows your rest times looking, are you strict with them? how has the progress and gains been with this compared to your past training methodologies? how did you train before this higher volume type programming?

what do you see as potential drawbacks? any advice to anyone starting out with a routine like this be it progressing the the volume/rest times slowly to adapt to it and progress it over time, exercise selection, things to take into consideration for recovery or the most effective workout depending on the bodypart?

 

[davetheanimal]

Could you give an example of how a a leg and a chest workout looks? hows your rest times looking, are you strict with them? how has the progress and gains been with this compared to your past training methodologies? how did you train before this higher volume type programming?

Usually a quad and chest day will look something like this:

Squat 8x12
Leg Press 6x12
Leg Extension 6x12

Bench 8x12
Incline Db 6x12
Machine Press 6x12
Cable Crossover 6x12

I will cycle through different movements but you can think of this as the core Day. Sometimes if I’m really feeling good I’ll have like a decline cable press in there as well. I am pretty strict about the rest times. I usually go 30 seconds on everything Upper Body and about a minute on lower body. As for the gains, they’ve been very nice and have breathed new life into my training and physique. I feel like I had been totally stagnant the past year or two and I’ve definitely noticed improvements in my legs and chest particularly since beginning to train this way. I had done Fortitude, DC and Big Beyond Belief in the lead up to the switch up. I’ve done a lot of Mountain Dog programs but I had never done Volume like this before. I had generally been attracted to more intensity focused routines. And I really love Fortitude. I was just craving a change.

The drawbacks would be that you will be humbled by how much lighter of a weight that you’ll have to use to train this way and your conditioning may be humbled at first too. Doing squats for that many reps and sets is just brutal. It’s still a very hard way of training but in a different kind of way compared to a single set to failure. If you’re just getting into it, definitely start lighter than you’d expect. Serge Nubret himself would talk about starting at 3 sets and then work your way up each week. I think it also helps to be very in tune with your body and use some auto regulation to help determine your volume on a given day, what exercises you’ll use and when to take a rest day. You’ll definitely want to make sure your protein intake is on point(1 gram per pound absolute bare minimum) and make sure you’re getting ample sleep every night.

 

[pimpman]

Man I think age and injuries through the years of hard training will. Either make you go lighter and more reps or completely to the point anything you do regards to that body part is spent and only surgery will helps. The body can’t physically talk to you. But it does when it tells you hey this hurts. So it’s telling you something is wrong or not normal.

It’s a hard pill to swallow.when your a hard ass workout person . But once you feel pain . The body alarm goes off telling you YO I’m struggling here take a look at me.

 

[Cerberus777]

Im 50. I train the DC 2 way with some added volume. My girl is 15 years younger into power lifting. So we've added 5/3/1 to the big 3. Then a rest pause set or 2 sets to failure on big muscle lifts. Arms and shoulders get Rest pause or down the rack as well but higher rep ranges. The volume is higher but still intense. Still progress. Ive slowed down the negative. im getting denser and stronger. If I upped the Calories id gain faster. But 200 5'6" is the point id have joint pain walking, biking and living.
I do a lot of mini cuts and rebound. Less meals (5 max) same Calories keep blood sugar better.

 

[Josefein421]

Dorian’s take on Dr Mike and RP.

“If you’re a bag of shit and you get bigger you’re just a bigger bag of shit.”

Hahahahaha

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[traininsane11]

On the topic of higher volume

Casual 35 sets for chest

 

[qbkilla]

Dorian’s take on Dr Mike and RP.

“If you’re a bag of shit and you get bigger you’re just a bigger bag of shit.”

Hahahahaha

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Lmao. Quote should be on the front door of every gym in the world.

 

[kadafi2]

Lmao. Quote should be on the front door of every gym in the world.

That wasn't very smart from a business point of view....

 

[mimo]

Did you end up changing your training style to a higher volume approach?

How's it going?

 

[Aikman56]

Dorian’s take on Dr Mike and RP.

“If you’re a bag of shit and you get bigger you’re just a bigger bag of shit.”

Hahahahaha

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All of these reactions to Mike really baffle me… He never once said that he was a better bodybuilder and Mike Mentzer. He said that he was bigger and stronger. Objectively, both are true.
Neither can I understand the speed at which people are racing to jump to the defense of someone who devolved into insanity and methamphetamine addiction just because he lost a bodybuilding competition. That isn't exactly the personality that I would rush to glaze.

Besides, all of that, Mike has brought plenty of value to the space and he's (to me) really entertaining. And the Solomon guy that spent all the time tearing him down is pretty pathetic. The dude's entire personality is wrapped up and running down a single person? Yeah, really strong look. Off-topic, but kind of related, it's like Mike Arnold… A brilliant guy with tons of knowledge, but he can't make it through a paragraph without saying something about Israetel.
These guys are as annoying as Dave Palumbo, every time he defaults to his nasally Steve Blackman impression. It was funny in 2005, but it's been two decades… Find a new schtick.

Anyway, I would bet my next quarterly bonus that Dore never even watched a video of what Mike Anyway, I would bet my next quarterly bonus that Dorian never even watched a video of what Mike said, just went by what someone told him.ACTUALLY said, just went by what someone told him.

 

[Aikman56]

Did you end up changing your training style to a higher volume approach?

How's it going?

Sort of? I'm in my HRT/health phase right now, so I'm not really pushing anything. I pulled back to four days per week, but my volume is slightly higher on those days. So I guess over the course of an entire week my volume is about the same, but I'm going a little higher on my rep ranges and giving myself an additional rest day.

I have been doing that for about three weeks and definitely feel fresher and I'm seeing what seems to be accelerated progress versus five days.

My next blast is scheduled to begin on December 14, so I may push volume after a few weeks, but I think I'm going to stay on the four day training schedule for as long as it is feasible.

 

[mimo]

Sort of? I'm in my HRT/health phase right now, so I'm not really pushing anything. I pulled back to four days per week, but my volume is slightly higher on those days. So I guess over the course of an entire week my volume is about the same, but I'm going a little higher on my rep ranges and giving myself an additional rest day.

I have been doing that for about three weeks and definitely feel fresher and I'm seeing what seems to be accelerated progress versus five days.

My next blast is scheduled to begin on December 14, so I may push volume after a few weeks, but I think I'm going to stay on the four day training schedule for as long as it is feasible.

Are you doing more a meadows' style volume on those 4 days or is that your plan when you start your blast?

Honestly every time i drop my volume to a more progressive overload top set back off with an intensifier, i don't progress as fast strengthwise and seem to just deflate a bit. The training is fun and my joints are fine, but at 45, it seems that my body just thrives on more volume and i end up going back to a push pull legs meadows style training

 

[comedycentral]

For a long time I slowed my reps down positive and negative and would try to do 4-5 seconds each way but had to count and it would slightly take my focus away from the set. Couple of weeks ago I tried @Big Dave Smith method of thinking your grandma is in the car. Slow pull away smooth to the top and slowly back down on th brakes type analogy. Worked great and works out about 4 seconds each way.

 

[Aikman56]

Are you doing more a meadows' style volume on those 4 days or is that your plan when you start your blast?

Honestly every time i drop my volume to a more progressive overload top set back off with an intensifier, i don't progress as fast strengthwise and seem to just deflate a bit. The training is fun and my joints are fine, but at 45, it seems that my body just thrives on more volume and i end up going back to a push pull legs meadows style training

I’m not going to necessarily adhere to any set type of P,P,L/bro split or anything like that… My volume is going to be constructed purely around where I need to make improvements. Since my priorities right now are quads and back, those will be getting more volume than something that can sit still, like shoulders or chest. As far as training style, I’m not going to bother with intensifiers or back off sets. I’m going to do one or two sets of each exercise to failure, and that’s it. I will still look for progression, albeit in ref ranges that are a bit higher than the typical 6 to 10. I feel like I’ve been over-complicating things. The goal for now is simplicity While being reasonably strategic with allocating volume throughout the week.

I’m also starting Neubie therapy on my left quad and left lateral this week, and possibly calves (if the therapist thinks there’s any hope there!) this week, so there will be some considerations made to accommodate that volume, as well.

 

[kadafi2]

He said that he was bigger and stronger. Objectively, both are true.

Stronger? Maybe. I don't know the strength results of either of them, and I'm not really interested, because I judge them based on their appearance/bodybuilding.

But I don't think he's bigger than Mike Mentzer. I mean in terms of lean tissue. If you put them side by side on stage and weighed them, I think Mike Mentzer would be bigger.

I know you like Dr. Mike, but it was Mike Mentzer who—based on Arthur Jones's theories—created principles that are still successfully used today. The same can't be said about Dr. Mike, which is why Mentzer is so respected by millions of exercisers worldwide. In today's hypocritical world of pseudo-experts and celebrities, few people can build trust that will stand the test of time. Besides, the best has already been invented; I don't think science will invent some special, new training system. And even if it does, it will be based on principles from the last century.

A muscle must be forced to do something it has not done before in order to develop, and this can be summed up in any training method.

 

[Aikman56]

Stronger? Maybe. I don't know the strength results of either of them, and I'm not really interested, because I judge them based on their appearance/bodybuilding.

But I don't think he's bigger than Mike Mentzer. I mean in terms of lean tissue. If you put them side by side on stage and weighed them, I think Mike Mentzer would be bigger.

I know you like Dr. Mike, but it was Mike Mentzer who—based on Arthur Jones's theories—created principles that are still successfully used today. The same can't be said about Dr. Mike, which is why Mentzer is so respected by millions of exercisers worldwide. In today's hypocritical world of pseudo-experts and celebrities, few people can build trust that will stand the test of time. Besides, the best has already been invented; I don't think science will invent some special, new training system. And even if it does, it will be based on principles from the last century.

A muscle must be forced to do something it has not done before in order to develop, and this can be summed up in any training method.

Mike I is objectively larger and heavier per inch of height than Mike Mentzer was… That objective. It’s not debatable. He’s not prettier. He never claimed to be in better shape… And no one in the right mind would compare aesthetics.He never said he was a better bodybuilder.
This has nothing to do with how much I do or don’t like someone he… It’s just looking at facts.
Another fact that people don’t stop to think about when they rush to defend the sanctity of all things Mentzer is that he was as much of a charlatan as anyone. He even admitted to Lee Priest that part of his motivation for recommending such low volume was so he could train more clients in an hour than someone taking them through a typical training session.
And Lee mentioning in that interview was not the first time I’ve heard this.

What Mentzer actually did in practice was vastly different than what he was exposing as the cheese slowly slid off his cracker later in life.
Dr. Mike is nuttier than squirrel shit, to be sure. And the fact of the matter is, I’ve taken probably about the same amount of information/influence from one as I have the other. This just goes back to me finding humor in people completely misconstruing/misquoting what Dr. Mike actually said and turning it into something they wanted him to say.

I don’t have a dog in the hunt, I’m just calling what I see.

 

[alfresco]

Mike I is objectively larger and heavier per inch of height than Mike Mentzer was… That objective. It’s not debatable. He’s not prettier. He never claimed to be in better shape… And no one in the right mind would compare aesthetics.He never said he was a better bodybuilder.
This has nothing to do with how much I do or don’t like someone he… It’s just looking at facts.
Another fact that people don’t stop to think about when they rush to defend the sanctity of all things Mentzer is that he was as much of a charlatan as anyone. He even admitted to Lee Priest that part of his motivation for recommending such low volume was so he could train more clients in an hour than someone taking them through a typical training session.
And Lee mentioning in that interview was not the first time I’ve heard this.

What Mentzer actually did in practice was vastly different than what he was exposing as the cheese slowly slid off his cracker later in life.
Dr. Mike is nuttier than squirrel shit, to be sure. And the fact of the matter is, I’ve taken probably about the same amount of information/influence from one as I have the other. This just goes back to me finding humor in people completely misconstruing/misquoting what Dr. Mike actually said and turning it into something they wanted him to say.

I don’t have a dog in the hunt, I’m just calling what I see.

Met him in person a few times, seen him train with his brother and talked to him on the phone a few times. I am not going to speak ill of the dead, but will say you might be onto something

 

[Flocci]

What Mentzer actually did in practice was vastly different than what he was exposing as the cheese slowly slid off his cracker later in life.
Dr. Mike is nuttier than squirrel shit, to be sure. And the fact of the matter is, I’ve taken probably about the same amount of information/influence from one as I have the other. This just goes back to me finding humor in people completely misconstruing/misquoting what Dr. Mike actually said and turning it into something they wanted him to say.

I don’t have a dog in the hunt, I’m just calling what I see.

Which interview is this, do you mind sharing the link to the interview where they talk about this?


If anyone wants to hear more anecdotes about mentzer, larry pollock talks a lot about mentzer on his podcast, they trained and lived together back in the day and there are some wild stories including amphetamines, deca and heavy training