Reverse banded hack squats

[slayer37]

I see a lot of top pros and top amateurs on IG reverse banding the hack. What is the benefit of this over traditional banding from the bottom and why is this so prevalent nowadays? Is it strictly to take the load off the knee in the fullly-flexed position?

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

That's why we do it....don't have great knees nowadays. Allows for a heavy load through the top half while progressively taking pressure off the knees toward the bottom

 

[buck]

Instead of the most muscle fibers being activated in bottom part of the movement which is what EMG studies tend to show. With less activity as the weight is lifted. With banded there should be more recruited it would seems as the weight is lifted. With less being recruited in the bottom. Which way will recruit more fibers would still depend on the weight but could be beneficial as far as wear and tear.

 

[FK86]

You guys are giving these people too much credit. While there are some who are using it to work around an injury or take stress off the knees, a lot of men and women are doing it to show off and try to get a following. Pay attention to the colour, thickness, and number of bands. When I see people doing sets with six plates a side on the Cybex with the steep angle I question how much they're muscles are even involved.

It's just like how the pros love to film themselves doing Hammer Strength Pulldowns with the Gym Pin extenders and all the plates in the gym but you couldn't get any of them to do a set of pull-ups.

 

[lookslikesausage]

You guys are giving these people too much credit. While there are some who are using it to work around an injury or take stress off the knees, a lot of men and women are doing it to show off and try to get a following. Pay attention to the colour, thickness, and number of bands. When I see people doing sets with six plates a side on the Cybex with the steep angle I question how much they're muscles are even involved.

It's just like how the pros love to film themselves doing Hammer Strength Pulldowns with the Gym Pin extenders and all the plates in the gym but you couldn't get any of them to do a set of pull-ups.

Each rep takes half a second because of the almost non-existent ROM but hey...he's got seven plates on each side. It's all about the views. I read a long time ago, and also heard Charles Poliquin talk about this; he had guys who lacked back development hold the contraction finish on rows for a good two seconds. You should be able to hold the full contraction (elbows as far back as possible) for at least a second on row movements and if you can't do that you're probably using too much weight.

 

[FK86]

I read a long time ago, and also heard Charles Poliquin talk about this; he had guys who lacked back development hold the contraction finish on rows for a good two seconds. You should be able to hold the full contraction (elbows as far back as possible) for at least a second on row movements and if you can't do that you're probably using too much weight.

I'm not entirely in agreement with him on that. I think really sloppy form on those exercises is dumb, but utilizing explosive contractions, a controlled negative, and a little bit of leg drive is good on barbell and t-bar rows. Going super strict will really limit the weight being used and compromise the amount of overload the back can handle. It may also run the risk of placing too much emphasis on the biceps, making it an arm exercise.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

I guess mostly I've only seen people like Hunter and Iian (can't ever spell his fucking name) Valliere do them and they both will give a very good explanation as to the why.

 

[juggy38]

There’s two camps….pros…..easier on the old knees, and better matched strength curve, as the weight will get heavier as your joints stack ankles, knees, hips. As they stack you gain leverage.

Cons….some research shows stretch mediated hypertrophy, and training at long muscle lengths cause more hypertrophy than in a shortened position. When you unload at the bottom, your lowering tension at your most quad stretched position.

This is fucking nuts to try, but rotate banded and non banded work week to week…..

 

[juggy38]

And I don’t think it’s all for views…..PLs have been using bands and chains since…..forever……

Accommodated resistance has its place. And I don’t know about y’all, but mini bands and 4PPs hacks are still heavy as fuck. It’s not like a small band is gonna bump you up to 6pps.

On English and back movements…..there’s something to just massively loading the back any way you can….rack dead’s, krock rows, bent rows (dusty Haneshaw, Jordan peters, bla bla)

I’m not saying branch warren the T bar row….that fucker had tendons made of Kevlar to withstand his training. I’m sure most of us do NOT.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

I'm not entirely in agreement with him on that. I think really sloppy form on those exercises is dumb, but utilizing explosive contractions, a controlled negative, and a little bit of leg drive is good on barbell and t-bar rows. Going super strict will really limit the weight being used and compromise the amount of overload the back can handle. It may also run the risk of placing too much emphasis on the biceps, making it an arm exercise.

There’s a difference between overly strict and anal vs biasing the lats/back.

All forms of leg drive will lessen tension on what you’re training. There’s just no way around it.

The leg drive is what takes away, it does not contribute.

If you can’t forcefully pull with your lats from a stretched position, your lats just aren’t strong enough to use the weight you want to use. It’s the rowing version of bouncing a bar off our chest while bench pressing.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Bands allow people to use uncontrolled eccentrics and bounce out of the hole.

If that is the technique you’re using, you WILL have knee issues.

Most people don’t “just have knee pain”. Most people cause their own knee pain/injuries. Banding just contributes to the problem.

 

[Dens228]

When I was powerlifting I used bands that added tension at the top of the lift. At a certain point my max's stalled.
I then started using them reverse banded for the three main lifts and my max's took off.
Of course this was for equipped max's and from a powerlifting point of view. I've never used bands in a bodybuilding type of workout but the best way to find out what works and doesn't work is to give it an honest try.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Bands allow people to use uncontrolled eccentrics and bounce out of the hole.

If that is the technique you’re using, you WILL have knee issues.

Most people don’t “just have knee pain”. Most people cause their own knee pain/injuries. Banding just contributes to the problem.

Well I would LOVE for someone to go through what I do and explain to me how I am fucking up my own knees and don't "just have knee pain". I've heard Dr. Mike say that crap too and also disagree with him.

 

[juggy38]

Well I would LOVE for someone to go through what I do and explain to me how I am fucking up my own knees and don't "just have knee pain". I've heard Dr. Mike say that crap too and also disagree with him.

Knee pain is most likely due to something OTHEzr than the knee itself.

Ankle mobility, tibial rotation, hip internal/external rotation/weak glutes

And this is me vomiting squat university. Go watch him and do his little home tests. I found out my right hip had SHIT external rotation compared to my left. Cleared it out with drills and stretches, knee pain slowly going down.

But there are instances of structural damage, like damaged miniscus which is the cause.

I think that’s what Dave is getting at

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

Knee pain is most likely due to something OTHEzr than the knee itself.

Ankle mobility, tibial rotation, hip internal/external rotation/weak glutes

And this is me vomiting squat university. Go watch him and do his little home tests. I found out my right hip had SHIT external rotation compared to my left. Cleared it out with drills and stretches, knee pain slowly going down.

But there are instances of structural damage, like damaged miniscus which is the cause.

I think that’s what Dave is getting at

My hips essentially don't internally rotate. I am largely swede and genetically we have deep as fuck hips that don't like to move about.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

Bands allow people to use uncontrolled eccentrics and bounce out of the hole.

If that is the technique you’re using, you WILL have knee issues.

Most people don’t “just have knee pain”. Most people cause their own knee pain/injuries. Banding just contributes to the problem.

This indeed is the case for most people. We all know and see people in the gym who bounce of the catchers during the hacksquat even when banded. Those are just morons.

However, there are a lot of us who, like myself, can't even do a deep 1 plate hacksquat without bands purely due to the knees or possibly in my case the machine ( we have matrix and it blows). In order to do a hacksquat I reverse band it. No knee issues, great quad stimulus.

 

[luki7788]

I also use a reverse band in hack squat but a very thin band which I don't think takes off more than 10kg at the bottom - I've had problems with my knees for years and it allows me to train without pain - additionally I use a foam roller which I put under the upper part of my back which changes the mechanics movement and mobilizes the hip a little more - something like a linear hack squat

 

[juggy38]

This indeed is the case for most people. We all know and see people in the gym who bounce of the catchers during the hacksquat even when banded. Those are just morons.

However, there are a lot of us who, like myself, can't even do a deep 1 plate hacksquat without bands purely due to the knees or possibly in my case the machine ( we have matrix and it blows). In order to do a hacksquat I reverse band it. No knee issues, great quad stimulus.

Matrix hack is definitely shit.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Well I would LOVE for someone to go through what I do and explain to me how I am fucking up my own knees and don't "just have knee pain". I've heard Dr. Mike say that crap too and also disagree with him.

No you wouldn’t. You’re being sarcastic because you wouldn’t handle the constructive criticism and help very well.

If you aren’t being sarcastic, make a few videos and link us. We’d be glad to help.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

The reality is most people will list every excuse imaginable not to change and/or disagree with advice provided by using one of a handful of logical fallacies.

If you don’t post your movements/execution/technique, you’re just hiding to save face… but you’ll waste tons of time arguing pettily instead.

We trust you bros.