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Reverse banded hack squats

Well I would LOVE for someone to go through what I do and explain to me how I am fucking up my own knees and don't "just have knee pain". I've heard Dr. Mike say that crap too and also disagree with him.
As i see it the faster a weight moves the more force it picks up and the more compensation is needed to get it moving in the opposite direction. The tendons can take up a lot of that force by acting as a spring of sorts. Having a 500 pound weight sitting on my shoulders is a different amount of force to support it then having the same weight dropped from 1 foot onto my shoulders. Poor example but just for illustration.
 
I'm not entirely in agreement with him on that. I think really sloppy form on those exercises is dumb, but utilizing explosive contractions, a controlled negative, and a little bit of leg drive is good on barbell and t-bar rows. Going super strict will really limit the weight being used and compromise the amount of overload the back can handle. It may also run the risk of placing too much emphasis on the biceps, making it an arm exercise.
I think it's more for seated variations. I've never head him talk specifically about bent over versions, but my own opinion is that holding the contraction on the bent over versions might not be the best idea in terms of retaining the integrity and health of the lower back. I can attest though to getting tendonitis of the elbows and I'm sure enough volume with rows where the finish is held for seconds didn't help matters. Even so, I still think it's a valuable practice for people who need to bring up their upper backs.
 
I’m with @Big Dave Smith here. Dive bombing the shit out of the squat just to rebound out of the bottom off the band is not helping your knees.

A very thin reverse band such as an elitefts red mini band or light band(orange) at the very most is all anyone would need to get a benefit out of relieving some stress out of the bottom of a hack.

I have kids at my gym using 2 thick average bands on the hack which is literally taking off over 250’lbs out of the bottom or more. I just can’t get on board with this.
 
I’m with @Big Dave Smith here. Dive bombing the shit out of the squat just to rebound out of the bottom off the band is not helping your knees.

A very thin reverse band such as an elitefts red mini band or light band(orange) at the very most is all anyone would need to get a benefit out of relieving some stress out of the bottom of a hack.

I have kids at my gym using 2 thick average bands on the hack which is literally taking off over 250’lbs out of the bottom or more. I just can’t get on board with this.
Have you ever ventured over and suggest that they try the 15-30lb resistance bands instead? Politely explaining that they’re losing far too much weight resistance by using heavy bands. Also, I realize some people are lost causes and a waste of time.

Cage
 
I think it's more for seated variations. I've never head him talk specifically about bent over versions, but my own opinion is that holding the contraction on the bent over versions might not be the best idea in terms of retaining the integrity and health of the lower back. I can attest though to getting tendonitis of the elbows and I'm sure enough volume with rows where the finish is held for seconds didn't help matters. Even so, I still think it's a valuable practice for people who need to bring up their upper backs.

That sounds reasonable. On any pulldown, plate-loaded row, chest-supported t-bar row, incline dumbbell row etc I select a load that could be paused at the top if I wanted. For me the barbell, smith, and free weight t-bar row are a chance to expose the back to a heavier negative than if I was strict. Leg drive may have been the wrong term.

I do them like this

Not like this


Have you ever ventured over and suggest that they try the 15-30lb resistance bands instead? Politely explaining that they’re losing far too much weight resistance by using heavy bands. Also, I realize some people are lost causes and a waste of time.

Cage

Not to speak for TommyJ, but I would bet they don’t care about that whatsoever. A lot of the younger people don’t have a passion for training. They take up going to the gym because they want to upload pictures and videos to their social media. Training the target muscle takes a backseat to how many plates are piled on and how many likes they can get.
 
Have you ever ventured over and suggest that they try the 15-30lb resistance bands instead? Politely explaining that they’re losing far too much weight resistance by using heavy bands. Also, I realize some people are lost causes and a waste of time.

Cage

Yes, always. I’ve signed up 5 clients in the gym in the last few months from leading by example and offering kind advice. I’ve also run into a lot of skinny legged guys with bad knees and no tear drop or outer sweep argue “it works for me bro.
 
Side note-

When I did traditional style TBar Rows, BB Rows, and rack deads I could handle tremendous load, but my back got nowhere. My lats were hot garbage. Erectors were great, but that’s not what makes a wide back.

When I slowed the negative down, I felt as if my biceps were doing way too much of the work to reduce the speed. TBar Rows inherently suck for arm positioning (angle is too acute at the top) and they also stress your erectors/discs unnecessarily. Carrying the load stretched out in front of you like that limits the load your lats can control.

A fully lengthened (but not overly stretched) arm position allows the lats to move the shoulders first, then the arms follow. A controlled descent is better than a fast drop or a slow neg. If you release it too slowly, your arms tighten and take over more so than the lat.

If I’m trying to bias lats for rows, nothing beats DB rows face down on a low incline bench. Takes the ego right out of it.
 

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My hips essentially don't internally rotate. I am largely swede and genetically we have deep as fuck hips that don't like to move about.
Side note-

When I did traditional style TBar Rows, BB Rows, and rack deads I could handle tremendous load, but my back got nowhere. My lats were hot garbage. Erectors were great, but that’s not what makes a wide back.

When I slowed the negative down, I felt as if my biceps were doing way too much of the work to reduce the speed. TBar Rows inherently suck for arm positioning (angle is too acute at the top) and they also stress your erectors/discs unnecessarily. Carrying the load stretched out in front of you like that limits the load your lats can control.

A fully lengthened (but not overly stretched) arm position allows the lats to move the shoulders first, then the arms follow. A controlled descent is better than a fast drop or a slow neg. If you release it too slowly, your arms tighten and take over more so than the lat.

If I’m trying to bias lats for rows, nothing beats DB rows face down on a low incline bench. Takes the ego right out of it.

Jesus Christ.

What are your favorite movements for that mid and upper back? It’s crazy developed
 
Side note-

When I did traditional style TBar Rows, BB Rows, and rack deads I could handle tremendous load, but my back got nowhere. My lats were hot garbage. Erectors were great, but that’s not what makes a wide back.

When I slowed the negative down, I felt as if my biceps were doing way too much of the work to reduce the speed. TBar Rows inherently suck for arm positioning (angle is too acute at the top) and they also stress your erectors/discs unnecessarily. Carrying the load stretched out in front of you like that limits the load your lats can control.

A fully lengthened (but not overly stretched) arm position allows the lats to move the shoulders first, then the arms follow. A controlled descent is better than a fast drop or a slow neg. If you release it too slowly, your arms tighten and take over more so than the lat.

If I’m trying to bias lats for rows, nothing beats DB rows face down on a low incline bench. Takes the ego right out of it.
As for T bar rows or anything else that is moving at an angle to gravity. You are actually lifting less weight from the math i have seen. The weight needs to be taken then multiplied by the sine of the angle. On a 45 degree leg press for example the sine is .7 so you are only lifting 70% of the weight. And as Big Dave pointed out the angle for the T-bar increase. A skinny kid can keep a fat kid up in the air on a teeter totter as his weight is being transferred down the board and less work is needed the steeper the angle is to keep his fat ass in the air. The fulcrum ends up supporting more load
 
I love-hate “Hack Squats” as it is but, there isn’t a machine exercise quite like it. It hits so many areas depending on foot stance and depth. It’s the only machine I had to be physically removed from by employees….I was unable to walk or stand, lol . For real 😂💪

Max
 
Yes, always. I’ve signed up 5 clients in the gym in the last few months from leading by example and offering kind advice. I’ve also run into a lot of skinny legged guys with bad knees and no tear drop or outer sweep argue “it works for me bro.
Never ceases to amaze me… I remember when I was new in the gym. Still a virgin to AAS. I was doing incline bench presses on a f’n Monday. I know right!!!

Well I had too much weight and was only coming down half way. This large fella in the rack next to me tells me I’ll get more outta that workout if I lower the pounds and let the bar slowly touch my chest and then explode upwards.

So I listened. Tried to do it with the weight I had already been using. My ego!! Needless to say the large fella had to help pull the bar off my chest. Dropped 50lbs and did the movement correctly with him giving me pointers. I was embarrassed at first, but grateful afterwards and thanked him for his input!

That was probably 25 years ago or more and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

Cage
 
Have you ever ventured over and suggest that they try the 15-30lb resistance bands instead? Politely explaining that they’re losing far too much weight resistance by using heavy bands. Also, I realize some people are lost causes and a waste of time.

Cage
Yeah cage I actually did and one kid took my advice and continues to thank me. The others were smug fu**ing punks. Probably pissed because I always move their tripods out of the way.

I always live learn and pass on. So many guys helped me as I was learning… so I give my attempts to give back every chance I get

It’s receptive maybe 1/6 times but if I can help 1/6 that’s a win for me.

I may need to work on my delivery at times, but I simply ask if they have ever considered trying to make the movement harder than easier. I don’t say it with an attitude ….although, I could see it coming across like that.

At this point in my life I generally ask “hey is it ok if I make a small suggestion?”

If the answer is no….great, no problem and I go on my way.

Part of me thinks passion is a loss art or disease….whatever you want to call it. But, I’m still sick with it and I know you all are too.
 
Well I would LOVE for someone to go through what I do and explain to me how I am fucking up my own knees and don't "just have knee pain". I've heard Dr. Mike say that crap too and also disagree with him.
Maybe I need to clarify. "uncontrolled eccentric" isn't part of my vocabulary, it may have been 10 or 15 years ago, but when I do these (and essentially anything) I slowly drop to the bottom of the movement.
Not sure how there was a claim that this band technique lowers range of motion either, it extends it, because you may not be ABLE to handle the weight in question all the way to the bottom without injury. Every rep doing this should touch the bottom of most machines range of motion.
 

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