Safe approach of PED use

[Crom]

lol
glad someone beat me to this. lol
didn't see it before. I was in shock. :banghead:

I think a big part of the problem with aas is we go from hearing that they are the devil to seeing dumb shit on the internet about how relatively safe they are...

the real problem is people failing to do more work then 3 mins on google.

Agreed! I think the key denominator here is humans. We do stupid shit, some of us more then others.

 

[swim15]

Are there any human studies showing neurodegeneration with tren? Wouldn't apply rats directly to humans

 

[jay_dub]

Best bets (nothing is for sure) in maintaining your health is simple really

Regular bloodwork
Consistent use of health related supplements to keep immune system, heart health, and CNS as strong as possible
Consistent healthy food choices (limit cheats and steer clear of sugar)
Maintain healthy sleep patterns
Stay in good cardiovascular shape year round
BLOODWORK
Listen to your body
Surround yourself with positivity, eliminate negative people and things



Not much more you can do than that...



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[p-lethal]

Best bets (nothing is for sure) in maintaining your health is simple really

Regular bloodwork
Consistent use of health related supplements to keep immune system, heart health, and CNS as strong as possible
Consistent healthy food choices (limit cheats and steer clear of sugar)
Maintain healthy sleep patterns
Stay in good cardiovascular shape year round
BLOODWORK
Listen to your body
Surround yourself with positivity, eliminate negative people and things



Not much more you can do than that...



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so what are some health related supps you take year long? i need to get much better at this


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[jay_dub]

so what are some health related supps you take year long? i need to get much better at this


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These have been my staples currently...

Ubiquinol
D3
Humanofort
Multivitamin

Short list i know, funds can only go so far at the moment.

Waiting to hear back from a sponsor here on getting injectable curcumin, reversatrol, and glutathione....

 

[nothuman]

I'll make this more specific. In no particular order of importance, since all are just as important.

- blood pressure. Ideally under 120/80. The lower, the better (unless it's TOO low).

- resting heart rate. Yes it will probably be higher when on gear and peptides, but don't let that get high when you're cruising or on TRT. People really don't seem concerned enough about this in my opinion. Again, the lower, the better.

- blood work, BUT don't just go to your doctor and ask for bloodwork. All that will happen is you'll get your blood drawn and get results of some things you definitely need to know about, but not all the most important ones. Ask for CRP, homocysteine, fibrinogen, lp(a), IL6, and A1C. If you don't, then sure you'll find out important stuff like your RBC panel, triglycerides, and LDL, but you'll be omitting the REAL stuff you want to know about. I feel like a broken record sometimes since 95% of the people who post their blood work don't have these tests done.

- keep your blood sugar down! Pre-diabetes is a real threat. You want your insulin sensitivity maximized Having high blood sugar is a fast track down the road of heart problems.


Guess what helps improve everything I just listed? Cardio. Not that walking bullshit, but challenging cardio. If your knees are too fucked up to run, find another form of cardio that doesn't impact your knees that much. HIIT is the best even though a lot of you choose to be in denial about how effective it is. Just get that heart rate up and challenge yourself.

 

[eaglecall]

Eaglecall - I read a lot of your posts and appreciate your opinion/perspective, thanks for sharing. Question on what you've said above regarding TRT: what would the negative impacts be of replacing endogenous testosterone with exogenous? If we are merely inserting the same endogenously produced substance into the body at the same doses that are naturally produced endogenously, I am thinking that the main/only potential negative impact would be HPTA "shutdown" so to speak. I would then think that - to the extent we don't care about pinning test for life - the negative impact would be other effects (some unknown potentially) of decreased HPTA function.

I would like to get your thoughts on this. Thanks.



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Well, your example of negative impact on the HPTA is bad enough to begin with. The HPTA. Disrupting the HPTA will throw estrogens out of balance, progesterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, prolactin, DHT, etc. And EACH ONE OF THOSE HORMONES serve a purpose. So what people do when that happens? THROW ANOTHER DRUG in to force that other hormone back into place. Thats like trying to put a fire down with more fire to contain it. Beyond that, the pituitary is not only in charge testosterone and sex hormones. The pituitary also produces TSH to stimulate your thyroid which in turn produces T3 and T4 to control metabolism of EVERY single tissue in your body.

I stand with my opinion that drugs are poison. The body simply don't need all this crap starting from the base of a healthy human body. The reason why drugs are used and we relay so much on drugs, is because our health habits, nutrition and diet are DEPLORABLE. We live surrounded from external toxic factors like radiation, radio waves, micro waves, processed foods, GMO's, excess sugar, preservatives, diet coke, etc. Add that to a deficiency in the proper nutrients responsible to combat all this oxidative damage, and you have a time bomb. Its a matter of time until something breaks in pretty much every human body. And what is the last resort? A drug

Now with all that being said, I am not against anabolic steroids or growth agents. I support them, they give great results, but to me is a matter of being educated and aware that using drugs for vanity purposes, is not the most brilliant decision to make. After all, to each his own. I ALWAYS prefer to maximize the capabilities of my own health and body instead of replacing it with an exogenous synthetic form. Pay attention for example to people asking for advice on how to recover after a cycle, or how to recover from low testosterone. Rather than giving time to the body to heal itself, rather than researching nutrient therapy to provide the body the raw materials, rather than strengthening the body's own capabilities to fix itself, people are ALWAYS asking which drug to take to improve symptoms. That is the twisted wrong approach that is the common denominator in society today when it comes to health.

 

[supertesty]

Well, your example of negative impact on the HPTA is bad enough to begin with. The HPTA. Disrupting the HPTA will throw estrogens out of balance, progesterone, DHEA, pregnenolone, prolactin, DHT, etc. And EACH ONE OF THOSE HORMONES serve a purpose. So what people do when that happens? THROW ANOTHER DRUG in to force that other hormone back into place. Thats like trying to put a fire down with more fire to contain it. Beyond that, the pituitary is not only in charge testosterone and sex hormones. The pituitary also produces TSH to stimulate your thyroid which in turn produces T3 and T4 to control metabolism of EVERY single tissue in your body.

I stand with my opinion that drugs are poison. The body simply don't need all this crap starting from the base of a healthy human body. The reason why drugs are used and we relay so much on drugs, is because our health habits, nutrition and diet are DEPLORABLE. We live surrounded from external toxic factors like radiation, radio waves, micro waves, processed foods, GMO's, excess sugar, preservatives, diet coke, etc. Add that to a deficiency in the proper nutrients responsible to combat all this oxidative damage, and you have a time bomb. Its a matter of time until something breaks in pretty much every human body. And what is the last resort? A drug

Now with all that being said, I am not against anabolic steroids or growth agents. I support them, they give great results, but to me is a matter of being educated and aware that using drugs for vanity purposes, is not the most brilliant decision to make. After all, to each his own. I ALWAYS prefer to maximize the capabilities of my own health and body instead of replacing it with an exogenous synthetic form. Pay attention for example to people asking for advice on how to recover after a cycle, or how to recover from low testosterone. Rather than giving time to the body to heal itself, rather than researching nutrient therapy to provide the body the raw materials, rather than strengthening the body's own capabilities to fix itself, people are ALWAYS asking which drug to take to improve symptoms. That is the twisted wrong approach that is the common denominator in society today when it comes to health.

Ok so thats more clear not and you have good approach. now do you think is it safe to recover after a cycle just by yourself and take the risk to have low testostetone for too much time wich is very bad for cholesterol immune system and mineral bones density ?

 

[Swifto]

New study showing Nandrolone's negative cardiovascular effects (rodents).

[Rats] The Effect of Nandrolone Treatment with and Without Enforced Swimming On Histological and Biochemical Changes in The Heart and Coronary Artery

OBJECTIVE: Chronic anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) consumption increases incidence of cardiovascular abnormalities in athletes and mechanisms underlying those abnormalities continue to be investigated. This study examines whether nandrolone consumption induced cardiac and coronary artery wall abnormalities via oxidative stress. It was also designed to determine whether enforced swimming augmented possible cardiotoxic effects of nandrolone in rat heart.

METHODS: Twenty-four male Wistar rats were divided into 3 groups: control, nandrolone, and nandrolone with enforced swimming. Nandrolone group received 10 mg/kg body weight nandrolone 3 times a week for 6 weeks. Nandrolone group with enforced swimming received the same amount of nandrolone and was forced to swim with excess weight of 20% body weight.

RESULTS: After 6 weeks of treatment, results indicated proliferation of heart muscle and coronary smooth muscle cells and lipid peroxidation; significant rise in levels of 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine (8-OHdG), nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate oxidase, homocysteine (Hcy), apolipoprotein B, low-density lipoprotein, and cholesterol, as well as severe fibrosis in heart tissue and around coronary arteries of nandrolone and nandrolone with enforced swimming groups compared with control group.

CONCLUSION: These findings strongly support idea that nandrolone intake by sedentary rats and exercised rats induced heart abnormality mediated by oxidative stress, which was manifest in increased lipid peroxidation, Hcy, and 8-OHdG in heart tissue.

Tofighi A, Shirpoor M, Ansari MH, Shirpoor A, Zerehpoosh M. The effect of nandrolone treatment with and without enforced swimming on histological and biochemical changes in the heart and coronary artery of male rats. Anatol J Cardiol. The effect of nandrolone treatment with and without enforced swimming on histological and biochemical changes in the heart and coronary artery of m... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[eaglecall]

Ok so thats more clear not and you have good approach. now do you think is it safe to recover after a cycle just by yourself and take the risk to have low testostetone for too much time wich is very bad for cholesterol immune system and mineral bones density ?

A lot of people actually are of the idea that "PCT" is obsolete and not needed. My opinion, drugs like HCG and Clomid are proven to stimulate the HPTA to restart natural production. HOWEVER, as I pointed out before, it is imperative the education on these medications. Is not a matter of reading a protocol on a website and doing it. It is more a matter of fully understanding what they do, how they work, and the fact that the only reason why one might use them, is because we caused harm to ourselves with other drugs to begin with. Small doses of HCG can be very effective at stimulating the pituitary gland to start producing its own.

HOWEVER, nothing of this recovery will happen without nutrients. Absolutely nothing. The body does not produce Testosterone from air or pixie dust. Every single biochemical process in the body is performed thanks to essential nutrients. If the essential nutrients are not present, the body can only do so much. In the case of sex hormones, ALL YOUR SEX HORMONES without exception, are made from cholesterol. Up to 75% of your brain is made of fat and cholesterol. Therefore with or without PCT, without proper nutrition recovery will slowly happen, or in several cases NEVER happen. And when never happens what people do? Throw a drug on it

In order to not deviate this thread, if you wanna hear my opinions and what I have learned from doctors just PM me.

 

[Crom]

New study showing Nandrolone's negative cardiovascular effects (rodents).

[Rats] The Effect of Nandrolone Treatment with and Without Enforced Swimming On Histological and Biochemical Changes in The Heart and Coronary Artery

OBJECTIVE: Chronic anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) consumption increases incidence of cardiovascular abnormalities in athletes and mechanisms underlying those abnormalities continue to be investigated. This study examines whether nandrolone consumption induced cardiac and coronary artery wall abnormalities via oxidative stress. It was also designed to determine whether enforced swimming augmented possible cardiotoxic effects of nandrolone in rat heart.

METHODS: Twenty-four male Wistar rats were divided into 3 groups: control, nandrolone, and nandrolone with enforced swimming. Nandrolone group received 10 mg/kg body weight nandrolone 3 times a week for 6 weeks. Nandrolone group with enforced swimming received the same amount of nandrolone and was forced to swim with excess weight of 20% body weight.

RESULTS: After 6 weeks of treatment, results indicated proliferation of heart muscle and coronary smooth muscle cells and lipid peroxidation; significant rise in levels of 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine (8-OHdG), nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate oxidase, homocysteine (Hcy), apolipoprotein B, low-density lipoprotein, and cholesterol, as well as severe fibrosis in heart tissue and around coronary arteries of nandrolone and nandrolone with enforced swimming groups compared with control group.

CONCLUSION: These findings strongly support idea that nandrolone intake by sedentary rats and exercised rats induced heart abnormality mediated by oxidative stress, which was manifest in increased lipid peroxidation, Hcy, and 8-OHdG in heart tissue.

Tofighi A, Shirpoor M, Ansari MH, Shirpoor A, Zerehpoosh M. The effect of nandrolone treatment with and without enforced swimming on histological and biochemical changes in the heart and coronary artery of male rats. Anatol J Cardiol. The effect of nandrolone treatment with and without enforced swimming on histological and biochemical changes in the heart and coronary artery of m... - PubMed - NCBI

10mg Nandrolone pr kg bodyweight is 1000mg for a 100kg (220lb) male. 3 times pr week makes it 3gr Nandrolone pr week. Did they need a study to find out that it would be detrimental to the heart? Any AAS will be detrimental at 3 gr pr week.

 

[Swifto]

10mg Nandrolone pr kg bodyweight is 1000mg for a 100kg (220lb) male. 3 times pr week makes it 3gr Nandrolone pr week. Did they need a study to find out that it would be detrimental to the heart? Any AAS will be detrimental at 3 gr pr week.

If you're going to make sarcastic comments to me, make sure you get your conversion rate from an animal to human model correct - because you didn't and now look like the idiot.

HED (Human Equivalent Dosage) is not calculated on bodyweight but surface area.

Its not 1000mg or 3000mg per week - try again.

 

[Crom]

If you're going to make sarcastic comments to me, make sure you get your conversion rate from an animal to human model correct - because you didn't and now look like the idiot.

HED (Human Equivalent Dosage) is not calculated on bodyweight but surface area.

Its not 1000mg or 3000mg per week - try again.

If you're going to assume I am making sarcastic comments about you you should ease up on the agression. I used "they" about the study, not "you". Relax!

Animal physiology is not the same as human but nevertheless, high doses is detrimental not matter what the AAS.

 

[Swifto]

If you're going to assume I am making sarcastic comments about you you should ease up on the agression. I used "they" about the study, not "you". Relax!

Animal physiology is not the same as human but nevertheless, high doses is detrimental not matter what the AAS.

Dam dyslexia! Read it aimed at me, I apologise

 

[Crom]

Dam dyslexia! Read it aimed at me, I apologise

No worries, mate! I learnt something new thanks to you, I was not aware of the conversion rate!