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See What Extended Slin Use Ultimately Does

I remember a guy on this site finding out about his from his hernia surgeon. Doctor told him he had several inches of visceral fat even though he had visible abs. It's thought that androgens play a role in visceral fat along with insulin resistance.
 
as a surgeon i can tell you...visceral fat can be damn impressive and I see guys quite often who have enorous "bellies" with very little subQ fat, then you cut 'em open and they have inches of fat around their viscera. It's disgusting, and a surgeon nightmare.

The "distended from over eating" doesn't make any sense. If his guy is fairly empty the day of the show then it doesn't matter how stretched it gets when he overfeeds.

I won't say it's insulin...but if I were a bettin' man, I'd say insulin + GH --> poor insulin sensitivity .
 
as a surgeon i can tell you...visceral fat can be damn impressive and I see guys quite often who have enorous "bellies" with very little subQ fat, then you cut 'em open and they have inches of fat around their viscera. It's disgusting, and a surgeon nightmare.

The "distended from over eating" doesn't make any sense. If his guy is fairly empty the day of the show then it doesn't matter how stretched it gets when he overfeeds.

I won't say it's insulin...but if I were a bettin' man, I'd say insulin + GH --> poor insulin sensitivity .

All very true but I don't get were you state "If his guy is fairly empty the day of the show then it doesn't matter how stretched it gets when he overfeeds". Yes visceral fat could be a major contributing factor for some but I think for most bodybuilders it shouldn't be too bad. It is true though many of these guys also have distended stomachs through the year.

However, how can you not think over eating could contribute to things? Yes it won't change the visceral fat that is or is not there in the short term. But in regards to many bodybuilders who mess with water and mineral (diuretics) levels I think carb loading is the major reason for many having bloated abs on stage. Some are far from depleted in a carb sense. Many are having approx 1000g carbs daily leading up to the show. It 100% makes a difference and I see it all the time on myself too. If it wasn't why do so many turn up for the Sat show much tighter.

I do think visceral fat is a problem for some. I have even seen a tv programme about surgery on fat people and it showed the many inches of visceral fat and it was horrible. But some of these bodybuilders have huge stomachs then weeks later they are gone so it's definitely not visceral fat which would take much longer to get rid of.
 
u know how outa shape these guys are. all that flexing and prancing, its tiring.
maybe.....maybe....he's just taking really deep breaths when those pics were taken.
 
So how do you get rid of the visceral fat? I have the same issue, lean and veiny everywhere, abs and obliques outlined but got the distension going on. Colonoscopy and CT scan for a recent issue were all clear so it's definitely inside fat. There's gotta be a way to remove it.

Insulin did it to me years ago, of that I'm sure because never had it before the slin. But I haven't touched it in a long ass time.
 
Hard to pin anything you see here on insulin. There are comparatively small changes happening here. If you have a small hernia it can and will stretch out with time, just from all the food and lifting. And stomach bloat at one small particular time widow can be due to whatever you just ate.

A few years ago we were arguing about Phil's use or non-use of insulin. "Skip" who knows Phil said Phil doesn't and never did use insulin (back then). Not much GH either, GH only came after many pro wins. :D

doesnt look like a particular time window and food prob. he CONSISTENTLY looks worse and worse year to year in the midsection. that pic proves it.
-F2S
 
Just looks like hes been training for a long time and each year he grew a little.

Each year he is either better or worse. Depending on condition. Hes not always grtting worse 2016 he was awesome. People are such haters. Ya its the slin. Not years of training and eating its just the slin

so Arnold should have a gut? Ferrigno? Sarcev? Cedric? Cuz of lifting heavy and eating? lol. yeah cuz phil is the first guy to lift alot and eat alot:rolleyes:
-F2S
 
The stretching from food theory kills me. It's visceral fat in there.

agreed. ridiculous isnt it? so the asian food eating champion should have a huge bubble gut? lmao. smart guys on here... use some logic.
-F2S
 
So how do you get rid of the visceral fat? I have the same issue, lean and veiny everywhere, abs and obliques outlined but got the distension going on. Colonoscopy and CT scan for a recent issue were all clear so it's definitely inside fat. There's gotta be a way to remove it.

Insulin did it to me years ago, of that I'm sure because never had it before the slin. But I haven't touched it in a long ass time.

Visceral fat is sensitive to androgens, high adrogens mean more visceral fat and it is harder if not impossible to lose vesceral fat if androgens are high:


The best or maybe the only way to lose the visceral fat is to go all natty and diet when hormones are super low, obviously not an option for MR.Olympia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17945484

"Men are usually characterized by the android type of obesity, with accumulation of fat in the abdominal region"

"Accordingly, the amount of fat located inside the abdominal cavity (intra-abdominal or visceral adipose tissue) is twice as high in men compared to women"
 
All very true but I don't get were you state "If his guy is fairly empty the day of the show then it doesn't matter how stretched it gets when he overfeeds". Yes visceral fat could be a major contributing factor for some but I think for most bodybuilders it shouldn't be too bad. It is true though many of these guys also have distended stomachs through the year.

However, how can you not think over eating could contribute to things? Yes it won't change the visceral fat that is or is not there in the short term. But in regards to many bodybuilders who mess with water and mineral (diuretics) levels I think carb loading is the major reason for many having bloated abs on stage. Some are far from depleted in a carb sense. Many are having approx 1000g carbs daily leading up to the show. It 100% makes a difference and I see it all the time on myself too. If it wasn't why do so many turn up for the Sat show much tighter.

I do think visceral fat is a problem for some. I have even seen a tv programme about surgery on fat people and it showed the many inches of visceral fat and it was horrible. But some of these bodybuilders have huge stomachs then weeks later they are gone so it's definitely not visceral fat which would take much longer to get rid of.


Its not Phils first show. He also has a pro trainer. You'd think they would know not to over eat and bloat the stomach before a show... i figured it out in 2 shows prob. 3 at most. dont eat too much:lightbulb:
-F2S
 
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Visceral fat is sensitive to androgens, high adrogens mean more visceral fat and it is harder if not impossible to lose vesceral fat if androgens are high:


The best or maybe the only way to lose the visceral fat is to go all natty and diet when hormones are super low, obviously not an option for MR.Olympia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17945484

"Men are usually characterized by the android type of obesity, with accumulation of fat in the abdominal region"

"Accordingly, the amount of fat located inside the abdominal cavity (intra-abdominal or visceral adipose tissue) is twice as high in men compared to women"

I was not aware of this at all. Very interesting.
 
Its not Phils first show. He also has a pro trainer. You'd think they would know not to over eat and bloat the stomach before a show... i figured it out in 2 shows prob. 3 at most. dont eat too much:lightbulb:
-F2S

I understand what guys are stating and that's why I have stated in this thread I think with Phil there are other reasons/factors. The stuff I wrote about distention on stage is more in general terms but it still applies to Phil too. His waist as looked much better in previous years... it's not just got worse. It was much better last year for example to now.

Regarding the doing it for years and having a pro trainer well there are some pro's who pretty much come in off nearly every show now. So you would think with the pro trainer and messing up so much in the past it wouldn't happen but they still do. Added to the fact the judges are not penalizing bloated guts much so some still would rather come in as big and full as possible and risk the gut then come in too flat. I don't mean to insult any pro's as they are pro's and I am a nobody but there are many of them who consistently come in off when it's obvious to even a regular guy what there issue is (usually loading too much).

Again though there are definitely other factors with Phil and something is definitely going on in there!
 
Visceral fat is sensitive to androgens, high adrogens mean more visceral fat and it is harder if not impossible to lose vesceral fat if androgens are high:


The best or maybe the only way to lose the visceral fat is to go all natty and diet when hormones are super low, obviously not an option for MR.Olympia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17945484

"Men are usually characterized by the android type of obesity, with accumulation of fat in the abdominal region"

"Accordingly, the amount of fat located inside the abdominal cavity (intra-abdominal or visceral adipose tissue) is twice as high in men compared to women"

While it is true that supraphysiological levels of test will make it VERY difficult to lose visceral fat; one does not necessarily need to go the extreme opposite to remedy this issue.

Simply getting down to TRT will make it EXTREMELY easy to lose visceral fat. In fact, visceral fat goes out EASIER and FASTER than other types of fat (according to Lyle Mcdonald).

If you feel you've got some bad visceral fat (any is dangerous), it might be wise to drop down to TRT and diet your way out.
 
as a surgeon i can tell you...visceral fat can be damn impressive and I see guys quite often who have enorous "bellies" with very little subQ fat, then you cut 'em open and they have inches of fat around their viscera. It's disgusting, and a surgeon nightmare.

The "distended from over eating" doesn't make any sense. If his guy is fairly empty the day of the show then it doesn't matter how stretched it gets when he overfeeds.

I won't say it's insulin...but if I were a bettin' man, I'd say insulin + GH --> poor insulin sensitivity .

As a surgeon, I would be awesomely interested in hearing more from you on this. I understand you're probably not educated in endo or physiological adaptations to these drugs but, accurate medical insight in any form is a welcome voice.
Can you elaborate on your age/when you went through med and what your exposure has been to any person that is close to our demographic?
Thanks in advance for contributing!
 
Visceral fat is sensitive to androgens, high adrogens mean more visceral fat and it is harder if not impossible to lose vesceral fat if androgens are high:


The best or maybe the only way to lose the visceral fat is to go all natty and diet when hormones are super low, obviously not an option for MR.Olympia

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17945484

"Men are usually characterized by the android type of obesity, with accumulation of fat in the abdominal region"

"Accordingly, the amount of fat located inside the abdominal cavity (intra-abdominal or visceral adipose tissue) is twice as high in men compared to women"

Holy fuck. You didn't even read abstract did you? Just saw something and posted a link.

" Association studies have shown that circulating androgens are negatively associated with intra-abdominal fat accumulation in men, which explains an important portion of the link between low androgens and features of the metabolic syndrome."

YOU are part of the reason there's broscience around.
 
Holy fuck. You didn't even read abstract did you? Just saw something and posted a link.

" Association studies have shown that circulating androgens are negatively associated with intra-abdominal fat accumulation in men, which explains an important portion of the link between low androgens and features of the metabolic syndrome."

YOU are part of the reason there's broscience around.

I did read it and spent lots of time researching this a few years back:
You are not understanding the context of the sentence you pulled out above

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866448/

"In multivariate models, bioavailable testosterone was associated with VF independent of age, race, percent total body fat, and other cardiovascular risk factors. Bioavailable testosterone was a stronger predictor than estradiol and was interchangeable in its strength of association with sex hormone–binding globulin (SHBG). As bioavailable testosterone was associated with VF even after adjusting for insulin resistance, this suggests that it plays an important role in regional fat distribution. Our findings may have direct implications in explaining the effect of menopause-related testosterone predominance on VF accumulation and subsequent cardiovascular risk."

"As young adults, women on average have less visceral fat than men, but that changes with menopause. In a four-year study at Louisiana State University tracking healthy middle-aged women, every one of them put on some subcutaneous belly fat, but only those who entered menopause added significant amounts of visceral fat. Lowered estrogen levels (which increase the proportional influence of testosterone) contribute to the shift toward a male pattern."
 
Holy fuck. You didn't even read abstract did you? Just saw something and posted a link.

" Association studies have shown that circulating androgens are negatively associated with intra-abdominal fat accumulation in men, which explains an important portion of the link between low androgens and features of the metabolic syndrome."

YOU are part of the reason there's broscience around.

**broken link removed**

"Long-Term Testosterone Administration Increases Visceral Fat in Female to Male Transsexuals"

The amount of intraabdominal (visceral) fat is an important determinant of disturbances in lipid and glucose metabolism. Cross-sectional studies in women have found associations between high androgen levels and visceral fat accumulation. The causal relation between these phenomena is unknown. We, therefore, studied prospectively the effect of testosterone administration on body fat distribution in 10 young, nonobese, female to male transsexuals undergoing sex reassignment.

We conclude that long term testosterone administration in young, nonobese, female subjects increases the amount of visceral fat. In addition, an increase in weight in this hyperandrogenic state leads to a preferential storage of fat in the visceral depot.
 
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