Seeking Small Permanent Gain (Older Guy)

[old timer]

I'm a 52 year old who has been lifting naturally since ~18 with one short cycle 30 years ago and a few 12 week 300mg T cycles within the last few years separated by many months of just TRT which basically returned me back to my pre-cycle weight. I'm 5-10, 173 lbs @ 12-14% BF. Here's me now doing some pull-ups:

I'm not looking to get huge, but is it possible to add even just 5-10 lbs of muscle that can be retained afterward with TRT (my TRT protocol is 15 mg ED which keeps my total T ~950 and me E2 in range too). I'm thinking of maybe 2 months @ 300mg (maybe 400mg later) ON and 2 months OFF where I return to TRT and then repeat for 18 months. ON months would consist of a modest bulk and then the first TRT month would be @ maintenance and the second TRT month @ slight deficit just to keep from getting sloppy fat.

I know that my general health will be compromised somewhat during the ON months but I'd like to keep the affects/sides to a minimum which is what has prompted me to consider the above, but what do you think? Again, I'd like to just be able to carry a few pounds more of quality weight at the end of this period with just TRT.

 

[Bio]

You keep mentioning Test dosage and weight but mentioned nothing about your diet/eating habits. What does it consist of? I have a feeling what you're looking for can be had by adjusting your diet.

 

[Biggerp73]

Try adding GH to your permanent HRT

 

[little slice]

nothing is permanent in this wicked world.... not even our troubles.

 

[LK3]

I'm a 52 year old who has been lifting naturally since ~18 with one short cycle 30 years ago and a few 12 week 300mg T cycles within the last few years separated by many months of just TRT which basically returned me back to my pre-cycle weight. I'm 5-10, 173 lbs @ 12-14% BF. Here's me now doing some pull-ups:

I'm not looking to get huge, but is it possible to add even just 5-10 lbs of muscle that can be retained afterward with TRT (my TRT protocol is 15 mg ED which keeps my total T ~950 and me E2 in range too). I'm thinking of maybe 2 months @ 300mg (maybe 400mg later) ON and 2 months OFF where I return to TRT and then repeat for 18 months. ON months would consist of a modest bulk and then the first TRT month would be @ maintenance and the second TRT month @ slight deficit just to keep from getting sloppy fat.

I know that my general health will be compromised somewhat during the ON months but I'd like to keep the affects/sides to a minimum which is what has prompted me to consider the above, but what do you think? Again, I'd like to just be able to carry a few pounds more of quality weight at the end of this period with just TRT.

lil slice is as on point as it gets!
you need to eat and train to gain weight, it inst just about drugs.
so eat and train to gain, then keep working your ass off so it stays.
only girls get gifts

 

[old timer]

You keep mentioning Test dosage and weight but mentioned nothing about your diet/eating habits. What does it consist of? I have a feeling what you're looking for can be had by adjusting your diet.

I tracked macros for years, and I suppose I could bring myself to do it again, but I haven't in the last few. Since I have a bias for protein--and even though I no longer track--I'm sure that I eat ~200g most days. Today's food, which is somewhat typical, included oatmeal with a scoop of whey for breakfast, 5 oz of chicken with bean soup for lunch, a 5 oz hamburger, turkey sandwich, and a bowl of honey nut cheerios for dinner, and before I go to bed I'll eat a turkey burger or salmon patty.

Thanks for the other replies guys.

 

[EWRECK]

300 test E, 200 tren E, double your calories, basic lifts as heavy as possible with good form.

 

[Girth]

Small changes can almost always be done via diet/training alone. But your age brings up something that should be considered by all who are unwilling to yield to the cane of Father Time. HRT/AAS will surely help in activating nerves to allow for greater strength achievements and higher muscle mass. But the aged lifter will lack the GH/igf-1 levels needed to keep that muscle around. Declining GH can be more to blame than low T. Sleep...important....why.....???

I'm not suggesting you jump on GH. I'm simply throwing this out there for all who are getting up in "experience", and that such can't be ignored. GH can be a god send simply because it fixes your sleep and allows for the nervous system to support all that muscle.

 

[mario2901]

I think diet + training is the issue. Are you still progressing on lifts? Not talking about deads/squats/...I'd bump up the rep range and make progress. 20-35 Rep, Rest Pause sets have been great for me and easier(for me ) to keep progressing on than other type of training.

 

[Hiram1st]

I’m 50 and on trt brother and gains come and go with the type of gear, diet and training I do. If you put on mass then you’ll need to continue to eat and train and supplement to keep it.
I gave that up years ago. Having the mentality that I look good a feel good works for me. I’m going to add HGH within the next week and looking forward to the new body composition that comes with it.

 

[j4ever]

if i were you I would work on that diet

 

[IronLion2]

My suggestion is get new socks and find a new gym. Gains will be limitless.

 

[old timer]

Are you still progressing on lifts?

Heck no. Right or wrong, I attribute my stagnation to hitting my genetic limit (if I may use that term after acknowledging that I'm on HRT).

What prompted this thread is that my brother in law (who is 10 years younger) was my workout partner for a few years. We had to quit lifting together when he got a new job and our schedules no longer aligned, but he used AAS for a period of time later (to be honest, I'm not sure how long) and now he still looks like a beast on what I really believe is true TRT doses.

 

[Wonton]

Heck no. Right or wrong, I attribute my stagnation to hitting my genetic limit (if I may use that term after acknowledging that I'm on HRT).

What prompted this thread is that my brother in law (who is 10 years younger) was my workout partner for a few years. We had to quit lifting together when he got a new job and our schedules no longer aligned, but he used AAS for a period of time later (to be honest, I'm not sure how long) and now he still looks like a beast on what I really believe is true TRT doses.

I took time off from lifting after getting frustrated as well - 4 years and one year no hrt - and everyone swore I lifted lol - but if your older - I don't see anyreason why you cant gain 7 lbs and keep it - as long as you can keep your hrt up - a lot of gains you will be mislead from water weight but yep

 

[Bio]

I tracked macros for years, and I suppose I could bring myself to do it again, but I haven't in the last few. Since I have a bias for protein--and even though I no longer track--I'm sure that I eat ~200g most days. Today's food, which is somewhat typical, included oatmeal with a scoop of whey for breakfast, 5 oz of chicken with bean soup for lunch, a 5 oz hamburger, turkey sandwich, and a bowl of honey nut cheerios for dinner, and before I go to bed I'll eat a turkey burger or salmon patty.

Thanks for the other replies guys.

Oatmeal (1/2 cup 5 grams) with a scoop of whey (25 grams) - Let's say 1 cup oatmeal, 10 grams.
5oz of Chicken with bean soup - 35 grams - I didn't count the beans...add an extra 5 grams if you want.
5oz of Hamburger - 25 grams
Turkey Sandwich - 20 grams
Bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios - 1 cup 3.3 grams - Let's say 2 cups, 6.6 grams
Turkey Burger (22 grams) or Salmon Patty (23 grams) - We'll go with the Salmon for the extra gram of protein

This is a grand total of 144.6 grams of protein, not 200.

Here's the thing, if you're not gaining weight, then you're only eating enough to maintain your current weight...the proof is in the pudding. It's a very individual thing. You could have a friend who eats that and gains. In my opinion you need more protein and a more carbs...you don't look overweight, so the extra carbs shouldn't be an issue unless you're diabetic. If you're not diabetic, a small dose of GH along with your TRT seems like it could be helpful, especially if you're adding more carbs and worrying about putting on fat.

 

[Rogue]

Find a variable you are convinced of and change it.
Adopt a new strategy for say 3 month. Training, diets, supplements etc...
something that convinces you and implement it. That will keep you motivated and pushing...
3 month latter if that variable made a change keep it and change another aspect of your program.
This whole sport is one of micro experiments trying to find the variables or combination off that works for you.
There is no right or wrong way to do things, and there an there are 100's of different philosophies about training, dieting, supplements... gear.
Find something that MENTALLY convinces works and implement it.
Being convinced of what your doing will give you progressive gains, and those should never stop because there is always something to be changed.

 

[johnjuanb1]

nothing is permanent in this wicked world.... not even our troubles.

Does this mean I’ll lose my virginity one day?

 

[Biggerp73]

If you havent done low rep, strength focused, powerlifting type of training for a while, you may benefit from doing that and adding some strength before going back to a bodybuilder style routine. Generally speaking, the physical size of a muscle is proportional to it's strength capacity. Adding strength will allow for new growth when you switch back to a bodybuilding routine.

 

[j4ever]

Oatmeal (1/2 cup 5 grams) with a scoop of whey (25 grams) - Let's say 1 cup oatmeal, 10 grams.
5oz of Chicken with bean soup - 35 grams - I didn't count the beans...add an extra 5 grams if you want.
5oz of Hamburger - 25 grams
Turkey Sandwich - 20 grams
Bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios - 1 cup 3.3 grams - Let's say 2 cups, 6.6 grams
Turkey Burger (22 grams) or Salmon Patty (23 grams) - We'll go with the Salmon for the extra gram of protein

This is a grand total of 144.6 grams of protein, not 200.

Here's the thing, if you're not gaining weight, then you're only eating enough to maintain your current weight...the proof is in the pudding. It's a very individual thing. You could have a friend who eats that and gains. In my opinion you need more protein and a more carbs...you don't look overweight, so the extra carbs shouldn't be an issue unless you're diabetic. If you're not diabetic, a small dose of GH along with your TRT seems like it could be helpful, especially if you're adding more carbs and worrying about putting on fat.

yep, that why I just stated fix that diet, more so fix it to accomplish your goal, I am 54 and I would not eat that diet, more carbs, whole eggs, lean beef, he can do whatever but that diet will bring him back to where he started.

 

[j4ever]

Does this mean I’ll lose my virginity one day?

damn we all hope so