Self administered TRT/HRT guys and "time off"

[Slyder190]

Quick question for guys who run self administered TRT/HRT.....how do you feel running it during your time off (and I am inquiring about normal rx doses), do you feel better or keep gains better as compared to when you used to run a standard PCT and come off? Thanks.

 

[MaineGuy]

Quick question for guys who run self administered TRT/HRT.....how do you feel running it during your time off (and I am inquiring about normal rx doses), do you feel better or keep gains better as compared to when you used to run a standard PCT and come off? Thanks.

Absolutely. Going any amount of time without producing (or injecting) test will not be good for your previous gains. I felt like a girl in PCT, and I did not bounce back, so TRT for me. I feel great and love being in my 40's and still have that hard look like when in 20's.

 

[blacktoppete]

I'm 46 been on Trt for 6yrs 100mgs a wk. I love it, don't fall asleep in my recliner at 8 o clock anymore. I Blast a few times a year and go right back to my trt dose. No pct just run my adex and keep caber handy

 

[Slyder190]

Do you find you keep gains any better than when you did standard PCT waiting to come back on your own?

 

[blacktoppete]

Do you find you keep gains any better than when you did standard PCT waiting to come back on your own?

Def keep gain better and when I use to come off and pct I would always get sick and run down that doesn't seem to happen anymore.

 

[Kaladryn]

Do you find you keep gains any better than when you did standard PCT waiting to come back on your own?

It will never come back all the way on its own, that is a well established myth, if you just do one short cycle, AND you are lucky, it might come back most of the way, but the more you do and the longer you stay on, the more permanently lowered your natty production will be. PCT doesn't change this fact.

I will say this, IF you do decide to "cruise" on TRT, they you will REALLY be permanently shut down, so make sure you ready to marry the needle for the rest of your life. As one friend of mine put it, it's a permanently chemical umbilical cord.

 

[DK0223]

It will never come back all the way on its own, that is a well established myth, if you just do one short cycle, AND you are lucky, it might come back most of the way, but the more you do and the longer you stay on, the more permanently lowered your natty production will be. PCT doesn't change this fact.

I will say this, IF you do decide to "cruise" on TRT, they you will REALLY be permanently shut down, so make sure you ready to marry the needle for the rest of your life. As one friend of mine put it, it's a permanently chemical umbilical cord.

But cruising is definitely healthier/better for gains, im sure you agree. Also triptorelin.... Haven't ppl had success restoring HPTA with this?

 

[Slyder190]

^^^

 

[ManoftheWorld]

I think triptorelin is the only chance for a proper reset but remember its still age dependant since we all decline in all hormonal function with age... so if you cruised thru your 30's and wanted to go natural when you hit 40 and attempted a reset with trip its only going to bring u up to speed as you would at your age since everything in the hormonal loop continued to decline as you aged...

best part of of HRT/TRT is its proven that men decline as they age so why not just avoid all the issues from yo-yo levels and just overall decline... yeah its all subjective to the individual and the ratios of various hormonal levels are also individual ie, total test, free test, e2, shbg, dht/psa.. so obviously it takes legit methodical approach thru a solid open minded doc to make sure your protocol is unique to your own body...

when it comes to doses and keeping gains... one thing to keep in mind especially in regards to genetics is your body is only going to be able to retain a certain amount of lean mass on a certain amount of drugs so even if you cruise on legit HRT doses your still capable of losing to some extent whatever phenomenal size and shape you were maintaining on higher amount of drugs regardless of diet/training/etc.. and thats just life...

 

[Kaladryn]

But cruising is definitely healthier/better for gains, im sure you agree. Also triptorelin.... Haven't ppl had success restoring HPTA with this?

I suspect triptorelin just has a lingering stimulatory effect on the HPGA, this is why everyone thinks clomid works so well.

Estrogen (E2) is what controls testosterone production, and no PCT drugs address increased aromatization from supraphysiological levels of test.

 

[DK0223]

I suspect triptorelin just has a lingering stimulatory effect on the HPGA, this is why everyone thinks clomid works so well.

Estrogen (E2) is what controls testosterone production, and no PCT drugs address increased aromatization from supraphysiological levels of test.

so in other words you think it(trip) only gives your system a temporary boost that isnt permanent?

my plans are to blast/cruise for as long as health permits, then when the day comes look into trip, or whatever may be the best option in the future. i would hope i can get my levels back to a respectable level, but realize trt is pretty common in older men anyway so....

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I suspect triptorelin just has a lingering stimulatory effect on the HPGA, this is why everyone thinks clomid works so well.

Estrogen (E2) is what controls testosterone production, and no PCT drugs address increased aromatization from supraphysiological levels of test.

Kal, so if I am following you correctly, running steroid cycles increases the aromatase enzyme which increases the ratio of estrogen conversion. When you go off steroids the increased aromatase exists still and drives estrogen out of balance with the (now low) levels of testosterone, creating an estrogen dominant environment, which suppresses testosterone production through a negative feedback loop.

Is that close to the mark???

 

[MAS81]

Kal, so if I am following you correctly, running steroid cycles increases the aromatase enzyme which increases the ratio of estrogen conversion. When you go off steroids the increased aromatase exists still and drives estrogen out of balance with the (now low) levels of testosterone, creating an estrogen dominant environment, which suppresses testosterone production through a negative feedback loop.

Is that close to the mark???

If this is correct, wouldn't a low dose AI eliminate this problem and help recovery?

 

[KUVinny]

I try to read most of Kal's posts for their great content. I believe he has discussed how AI's do not impact testicular aromatase. That would be an issue I believe.

 

[308power]

I definently feel a ton better now that I blast and cruise. You keep gains a lot better and it is actually healthier than bottoming out when you come off. You will never restore your HPTA after you have been on for a few years though. But I feel anabolics are a lifetime commitment anyways.

 

[Knight9]

I am NOT even understanding why there is a question on which method keeps gains better? (pct vs cruise) LOL DUH!
Triptorelin is your best shot/hope but youre still limited by your body and what it can produce after being shut down.

 

[Slyder190]

Interesting replies. Keep in mind I'm talkin about cruising on a test dose that would be within natural levels. I wouldn't expect to keep all gains, but was curious if you can keep them better this way.

 

[dt1600]

As a side thought...in my readings regarding trt as opposed to pct is that its actually healthier to do as opposed to using the various drugs at various dosages to get you back on line so to speak.....and then one just goes back on...and then repeat....vicious circle and yo yoing...

 

[ManoftheWorld]

Interesting replies. Keep in mind I'm talkin about cruising on a test dose that would be within natural levels. I wouldn't expect to keep all gains, but was curious if you can keep them better this way.

Yes... when you are artificially supplementing your test to keep levels steady and stable your taking it out of the equation of other factors like stress etc which effect your natural production being inhibited and cause other issues with the body's stress response and increased levels of cortisol etc...

altho your body could still compensate in other ways by altering your aromatase and shbg processes..which is ultimately why labs and going thru a doc is the best way obviously..

suggested range is 100-200/wk but realistically the 75-160/wk range is more common from everybody I've encountered on legit TRT

 

[Kaladryn]

Kal, so if I am following you correctly, running steroid cycles increases the aromatase enzyme which increases the ratio of estrogen conversion. When you go off steroids the increased aromatase exists still and drives estrogen out of balance with the (now low) levels of testosterone, creating an estrogen dominant environment, which suppresses testosterone production through a negative feedback loop.

Is that close to the mark???

Yep, exactly.

If this is correct, wouldn't a low dose AI eliminate this problem and help recovery?

It is well established that AIs just further stimulate aromatase. The body is trying to break down testosterone and reach homeostasis, when the feedback loop isn't working, it increases aromatase activity. You can see this in people who take AIs, when they start the AI is super effective at very low doses, over time they find it necessary to take more AI to maintain low E2. I know what you are thinking, but it makes zero difference if the AI is suicidal or not.

Interesting replies. Keep in mind I'm talkin about cruising on a test dose that would be within natural levels. I wouldn't expect to keep all gains, but was curious if you can keep them better this way.

GH is the key to cruising on TRT and keeping gains, it's the most magical thing ever at this.