Self coaching VS having a coach?

[cm]

Why would I not be able to opine?

Criteria for being a good pro varies by division. Placings are probably the biggest determining factor.

ok - sort of getting somewhere, but back to the discussion. placings- what place what division etc etc

I don’t know a single good pro or national level bodybuilder who doesn’t have a coach in both offseason and prep.

this is what you said
I know what my initial reaction is/was to it, but i want to clarify what a "single good pro is" that has a coach or as you say doesnt have a coach. I understand Im being argumentative, but I really want to know where your opinion is coming from, based on the criteria. top 5? only a show winner? only olympia comp? has won money at s show?

its a curious take, and one I dont really see it, but Im just seeing if I can be convinced to agree or disagree

 

[TheOtherOne55]

ok - sort of getting somewhere, but back to the discussion. placings- what place what division etc etc

I don’t know a single good pro or national level bodybuilder who doesn’t have a coach in both offseason and prep.

this is what you said
I know what my initial reaction is/was to it, but i want to clarify what a "single good pro is" that has a coach or as you say doesnt have a coach. I understand Im being argumentative, but I really want to know where your opinion is coming from, based on the criteria. top 5? only a show winner? only olympia comp? has won money at s show?

its a curious take, and one I dont really see it, but Im just seeing if I can be convinced to agree or disagree

The top 5 at any and every NPC national level show, in the major weight classes like HW and SHW. 165 is correct. There are no self coached BBers in there, that’s a fact.

 

[cm]

The top 5 at any and every NPC national level show, in the major weight classes like HW and SHW. 165 is correct. There are no self coached BBers in there, that’s a fact.

well that isnt what he said now is it?, so he's not correct. I dont know if your facts are right either, but you called out only 2 weight classes of only one division of the npc. Hardly inclusive, and to say those are major divisions??? to who are they major? and what gives those who have that strange belief, makes it a "rule" or guide for others to follow or share that belief?? I can tell you, straight up, I dont subscribe to that thought that the HW and SHW are major divisions, not at all, but again, that doesnt mean much, that I dont, because you do believe that.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

well that isnt what he said now is it?, so he's not correct. I dont know if your facts are right either, but you called out only 2 weight classes of only one division of the npc. Hardly inclusive, and to say those are major divisions??? to who are they major? and what gives those who have that strange belief, makes it a "rule" or guide for others to follow or share that belief?? I can tell you, straight up, I dont subscribe to that thought that the HW and SHW are major divisions, not at all, but again, that doesnt mean much, that I dont, because you do believe that.

Oh semantics, how fun lol

HE said bodybuilder, then I mentioned 2 NPC classes. And I’d be willing to bet the top 3 of each BODYBUILDING CLASS has a coach. The only thing you miiight be able to challenge is what you define is good. Because you’re right, it’s subjective. But we do know that most IFBB pro BBers, at least those who win shows or are in the first callout have coaches. Maybe that’s “good” for ya.

No one has said it’s a rule or guide, somehow you’ve shoved that into this discussion. We all were simply talking about the common norm between the elite. Thanks for your contribution tho.

 

[165StateChamp]

ok - sort of getting somewhere, but back to the discussion. placings- what place what division etc etc

I don’t know a single good pro or national level bodybuilder who doesn’t have a coach in both offseason and prep.

this is what you said
I know what my initial reaction is/was to it, but i want to clarify what a "single good pro is" that has a coach or as you say doesnt have a coach. I understand Im being argumentative, but I really want to know where your opinion is coming from, based on the criteria. top 5? only a show winner? only olympia comp? has won money at s show?

its a curious take, and one I dont really see it, but Im just seeing if I can be convinced to agree or disagree

Strangely argumentative but I’ll try to explain for you. I’m talking open men’s bodybuilding btw - masters is not competive anymore and I’m not interested in classic or MP nor do I honestly consider 90% of those pro cards to be legitimate.

National level is a little easier to stratify for the US - has placed top 5 in the big 3 US pro qualifiers in the LHW, HW or SHW classes. There’s a handful of decent guys below that but for the most part classic killed those weights.

Pro level - a little tougher here as there’s more judgement involved but I’ll set the criteria as ‘has placed top 5 in an open or 212 pro show’.

There’s also an element of ‘what have you done lately’ and consistency of your placings as well of the depth of the lineups in which you earned your placings.

 

[165StateChamp]

Oh semantics, how fun lol

HE said bodybuilder, then I mentioned 2 NPC classes. And I’d be willing to bet the top 3 of each BODYBUILDING CLASS has a coach. The only thing you miiight be able to challenge is what you define is good. Because you’re right, it’s subjective. But we do know that most IFBB pro BBers, at least those who win shows or are in the first callout have coaches. Maybe that’s “good” for ya.

No one has said it’s a rule or guide, somehow you’ve shoved that into this discussion. We all were simply talking about the common norm between the elite. Thanks for your contribution tho.

There is also the additional extra subjective criteria of - do you look like a pro or do you have to tell people you’re one - but that’s going to hurt feelings.

 

[cm]

Oh semantics, how fun lol

Maybe that’s “good” for ya.

No one has said it’s a rule or guide, somehow you’ve shoved that into this discussion. We all were simply talking about the common norm between the elite. Thanks for your contribution tho.

no, not fun.
no, not good for me

thanks again for showing you have the massive ego and qualities most basic gym bros share. good luck to you and yours

 

[cm]

Strangely argumentative but I’ll try to explain for you. I’m talking open men’s bodybuilding btw - masters is not competive anymore and I’m not interested in classic or MP nor do I honestly consider 90% of those pro cards to be legitimate.

and here it is - finally. now that I now you take this stance, i wouldnt even need to discuss this with you or anyone here. Now I know i should not have even posted. I knew the answer would be this, but was hoping it might be something else.

 

[165StateChamp]

and here it is - finally. now that I now you take this stance, i wouldnt even need to discuss this with you or anyone here. Now I know i should not have even posted. I knew the answer would be this, but was hoping it might be something else.

Damn, looks like I hurt some feelings.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

no, not fun.
no, not good for me

thanks again for showing you have the massive ego and qualities most basic gym bros share. good luck to you and yours

Massive ego?

U derailed the thread by being self admittedly argumentative. Thanks again for showing that you should go back to lurking in the shadows. Good luck to you cm.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I never saw the need because I would rather learn it for myself. Let's be honest finances are the most important thing and of course a coach that you trust think that'll help you.

Say person a comes from a wealthy family has been given a lot of wealth and it's like dropping two cents on the ground , to hirer a trainer , nutrition coach, for the last 4 months of prep obviously that would make sense for them.

Person b comes from a low middle class family it struggles with his budget to make other ends meet once again investing has to save up for that for a mortgage payment and a house has a lot of responsibilities it's just not in the cards for him and he plans on doing this a long time would rather figure out in himself.

Now if you're a professional or even a amateur sponsored athlete making 50,000 to 100 k a year, just from sponsorships alone, I can see where it's worth it to you. At the end of the day comes down to you and your decision.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I never saw the need because I would rather learn it for myself. Let's be honest finances are the most important thing and of course a coach that you trust think that'll help you.

Say person a comes from a wealthy family has been given a lot of wealth and it's like dropping two cents on the ground , to hirer a trainer , nutrition coach, for the last 4 months of prep obviously that would make sense for them.

Person b comes from a low middle class family it struggles with his budget to make other ends meet once again investing has to save up for that for a mortgage payment and a house has a lot of responsibilities it's just not in the cards for him and he plans on doing this a long time would rather figure out in himself.

Now if you're a professional or even a amateur sponsored athlete making 50,000 to 100 k a year, just from sponsorships alone, I can see where it's worth it to you. At the end of the day comes down to you and your decision.

I don’t think finances are a part of the equation. I mean of course they are when trying to hire a famous coach costs money. But that’s not quite the point of the discussion.

Everyone, no matter who u are, started off as a gym rat by themselves. If u didn’t, you’re lucky. We all spent years learning the ropes for ourselves in the gym, reading, learning, etc and making the best progress we could do BY OURSELVES. But at a certain point, you need guidance. No one is saying that needs to be someone u pay. But whether that be a vet in the gym or a good buddy, an unbiased eye will allllways rule over your own. The poor guy from a lower class family needs that just as much as the rich kid, especially if they are trying to take their physique to the next level. Basically, everyone needs another eye/another opinion to continue to make progress in a timely matter.

 

[marssel]

6/7 check ins working 6 days a week is fine for me.

But the “worst” part is time between check ins. Sometimes your WhatsApp/messenger just burn.

Also the energy you have to give to other guys when it’s comes about mental health, it’s good to listen, it’s good to say something good but don’t even try to keep it inside of you, one year and you will be f*cked.

Don’t keep others problems inside of you.

Anyway, today many guys hire coach for the name.

“I’m coached by…” my ego is in the sky, a lot of bullshit and they do nothing.

Coaching is a long story.

Yea a lot of people overpay for a coach’s name and those coach’s imo only give a shit about their famous clients and just pocket the cash of guys trying to do their first show, regional shit, etc.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I don’t think finances are a part of the equation. I mean of course they are when trying to hire a famous coach costs money. But that’s not quite the point of the discussion.

Everyone, no matter who u are, started off as a gym rat by themselves. If u didn’t, you’re lucky. We all spent years learning the ropes for ourselves in the gym, reading, learning, etc and making the best progress we could do BY OURSELVES. But at a certain point, you need guidance. No one is saying that needs to be someone u pay. But whether that be a vet in the gym or a good buddy, an unbiased eye will allllways rule over your own. The poor guy from a lower class family needs that just as much as the rich kid, especially if they are trying to take their physique to the next level. Basically, everyone needs another eye/another opinion to continue to make progress in a timely matter.

Great point. I've learned from a guy when first starting basic splits, he did a lot of stuff incorrect, and still grew. Now a days learning online is where it's at, at least how I perfected training. Then there's nutrition, supplements, learned a lot on this board, other stuff like Milos promoted, watching him on video. While I don't agree with everything Dave Palumbo said and a lot of it, he's helped.

 

[TrenGoblin23]

There is also the additional extra subjective criteria of - do you look like a pro or do you have to tell people you’re one - but that’s going to hurt feelings.

Are you a pro ?

 

[luki7788]

Are you a pro ?

he's not a pro but I think it's a matter of a year and the pro card will be in his hands - now he's a top level amateur

 

[5Noles]

Based off your guys responses… seems like my past coach experience was just shit lol.

My coach pretty much just told me eat more when my weight would plateau (nothing I couldn’t do) and gave me some list of exercises lol.

Yes most of us had a different experience.
Also, there is a big difference in coaches.

 

[165StateChamp]

Are you a pro ?

No.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Are you a pro ?

its literally a matter of time. The most complete physique on this board right now.

 

[juggy38]

No.

Do you even lift bro?

Lolz