Self medicated TRT

[Jake LaMotta]

If one were to do his own self medicated TRT program for low test levels (let's say anywhere between 230 and 500 ng/dL), how would this look? Let's say someone couldn't or didn't want to do injections for various reasons. Let's also say someone would be getting blood work taken every 5 weeks to check on test, estrogen, liver values, etc.). Also, lets say this person plans on taking this regimen for the rest of his life (no breaks or cycles). Here it is:

1. Andriol (40 mg tablets) 160-240 mg daily (start at 160 mg and if blood work or symptoms don't show much improvement bump up to 200 mg than possibly 240 mg) spread out over the course of the day (breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime) taken with food.

OR

Methyltestsoterone (10 mg tablets) 40-50 mg daily (start at 40 mg and if blood work or symptoms don't show much improvement bump up to 50 mg) taken all in one dosage at breakfast with food.

2. Clomid 50 mg every other day taken in the morning with food.

3. Nolvadex 20 mg every day taken in the morning with food. If estrogen symptoms start to appear, start taking 40 mg to symptoms disappear and than resume taking 20 mg.

A few questions:

1. Let's say someone were to do this strictly to get his testosterone back to normal levels for his age where he could start having full solid erections again, stop feeling depressed, stop feeling lethargic, possibly lose a little bit of his gut (with weight training and cardio ofcourse), build a little bit of lean muscle, etc. Basically what I'm asking is, are these dosages (starting with the minimum and POSSIBLY increasing the dosages (based on blood work and symptoms) good for a TRT program? I'm not talking about a cycle where someone wants to put on 30 lbs. of solid muscle, I'm strictly talking about a TRT regimen.

2. For this situation what would be better to take, Andriol or Methyltestsosterone? I have done extensive reaserch and talked to various people, I just want to see what you fellas think.

3. Do you guys think this regimen would cause estrogen symptoms (gyno, bloating, etc.)? With the addition of clomid, is it even necessary to include Nolvadex? Obviously you would want it on hand to combat estrogen symptoms if they appeared, but is it necessary to take it every day?

4. If someone plans on taking this regimen the rest of life, will it kill their liver? Or are the dosages so mild where that won't be a problem? Would Milk Thistle or another OTC product help with the liver or is that not necessary? As far as I understand it Andriol goes through the lymphatic system as opposed to Methyltestosterone which goes through the liver. What do you guys think?

5. Would this regimen shrink your testicles? I would think the addition of Clomid every other day would prevent this. What do you guys think?

6. Would this regimen improve the solidness of erections and increase sex drive? What about aggressiveness?

7. If one were to take this regimen, they basically would never be able to get an erection first thing in the morning again. Is this true?

What do you guys think?

 

[Michael]

I'm on TRT @ 250mg/wk test enantate and don't have a problem with bollock shrinkage. My endo said cos I aint producing test myself it won't affect their size and to give him his due, supprisingly he was right about that. As for other ?'s not sure!

 

[richie34]

if they were to shrink would it be permanent? i have done lots of searching but as always differing opinions, isnt 250 too high for strictly trt purposes?

 

[Steve123]

I think you are making it much more difficult, not to mention less effective, and probably far more expensive, than just using Test. "methyl" anything is usually harsh on the liver. Even Nolvedex is liver toxic. because of this you may not get that feeling of well being. Nolva and clomid make me feel like shit. and any oral Ph/s's I ever took make me feel like shite too...not that it is an apple:apple comparison but oral steroids probably aren't the best route for TRT>

ANd dude, at a TRT dose, you can do about a 1/2 year supply for under 100 dollars...

 

[jimmyjones]

I think you are making it much more difficult, not to mention less effective, and probably far more expensive, than just using Test. "methyl" anything is usually harsh on the liver. Even Nolvedex is liver toxic. because of this you may not get that feeling of well being. Nolva and clomid make me feel like shit. and any oral Ph/s's I ever took make me feel like shite too...not that it is an apple:apple comparison but oral steroids probably aren't the best route for TRT>

ANd dude, at a TRT dose, you can do about a 1/2 year supply for under 100 dollars...

+1, for real, a legitimate TRT is about 100mg/week. I recently received some product from a sponsor here, and if I was to use it in the said fashion, I could get 60 weeks worth of the TRT dosage, for a mere $100 that I paid.

 

[vadim_b1]

both are very bad solutions

first of all andriol has a half life of 2 hours and is not absorbed consistently, so you could have a decent blood level one day and feel totally like crap the next.
Also you will have low levels during the night since you wont be popping tabs for at least 8 hours.

and Methyltest at 50 mg daily for life, are you kidding me? Try methyltest at that dosage for a month and get back to me.
Also what is the reason for taking Clomid eod? Seems totally pointless to me...

Bottom line, the only effective, reliable method for TRT administration right now is injection.
Maybe when real SARMs come out, you will have an alternative but right now there isnt an effective one.

 

[Jake LaMotta]

both are very bad solutions

first of all andriol has a half life of 2 hours and is not absorbed consistently, so you could have a decent blood level one day and feel totally like crap the next.
Also you will have low levels during the night since you wont be popping tabs for at least 8 hours.

and Methyltest at 50 mg daily for life, are you kidding me? Try methyltest at that dosage for a month and get back to me...

Well what about a 100 mg injection every week of test cypionate. Would that be better?

For those of you on TRT, is it even necessary to take HCG, Clmid, or Nolvadex at this low of a test dose?

Also what is the reason for taking Clomid eod? Seems totally pointless to me...

The reason for taking Clomid eod was because I was thinking that while I was on a synthestic test that I would also want my natural test working as well.

And the reason for taking Nolvadex is because I wouldn't want any gyno symptoms that come along with the test.

 

[Massive G]

I not gonna really go into it because it looks like most of the questions have been answered-and your original post it sounds like you were throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it.
I won't go into my speil about docs, but in your other thread you have a guy willing to give you 100 mg every 4 weeks most say 2 but it's in their training to administer the shot every 2-4 weeks.

Why not take him up on it? Then you can PROVE it wrong with blood work and he has to raise the dose, you may even become more suppressed in between the monthly shots-then that kinda forces him to up the dose, he can't blame it on depression or whatever.

You also don't seem to understand that you are setting yourself up for andropause and permanent HPTA suppression with HRT over the long run.

If I were 29, I'd be searching for everything I could to raise my test levels back to normal-maybe it's dietary maybe it's training maybe it's depression maybe it's stress or a combination of factors-but at 500 ng/dl these guys aren't really concerned.

You make no mention of what your past is-serious lifter, past juicer user abuser? Or just a natural lifter looking for TRT to enhance lifestlye mood and libido?
Your best shot is the wellness clinics and naturopathic docs.

I found my endo on the site listing for best dr's in NC for Thyroid, as I was getting much help from the "book boys" as I call the endos that were taught thyroid function is based upon T4 and TSH blood levels using unconverted Thyroid hormones (T4) as their "gold standard".

This site has who they rate as the top thyroid dr's-most are endos' that are sympathetic to how their patient feels not juist what the black and white blood work says.
**broken link removed**

 

[machola]

Well what about a 100 mg injection every week of test cypionate. Would that be better?
100-200mg/week is standard dosage. 200mg/week would most likely give supraphysiological levels
For those of you on TRT, is it even necessary to take HCG, Clmid, or Nolvadex at this low of a test dose?

hcg will stimulate testes which will maintain size, testosterone production, and some sperm production.

clomid and nolvadex have no place in trt imo. nolvadex greatly increases risk of stroke and has other bad effects. ai's(anastrozole, letrozole, exemestane) are used if estrogen levels rise too high

The reason for taking Clomid eod was because I was thinking that while I was on a synthestic test that I would also want my natural test working as well.
clomid will not help your natural test production while on trt. only hcg or hmg will do that.
And the reason for taking Nolvadex is because I wouldn't want any gyno symptoms that come along with the test.
^^^

you have a lot of reading to do.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html
read "a recipe for success"

 

[Trainwreck80]

you have a lot of reading to do.
http://www.allthingsmale.com/publications.html
read "a recipe for success"

As someone on TRT, I second this! Also check out his TRT forum:
**broken link removed**

You want test, hcg, and adex.

Good Luck!

Edit: Also check this out: **broken link removed**

 

[Jake LaMotta]

...Your best shot is the wellness clinics and naturopathic docs...

Why do you say that Massive G? I have a meeting with a wellness doc Thursday. Why do you think I will have more success getting him to treat me as opposed to a uro or an endo?

Also, should I even tell the wellness doc about the second test (where I tested 509) or should I just show him the first test (where I tested 236). Can you give me some reasons why you think either way?

And I just want to thank all of you that have responded and helped me. Thanks fellas.

 

[gordo14]

Why do you say that Massive G? I have a meeting with a wellness doc Thursday. Why do you think I will have more success getting him to treat me as opposed to a uro or an endo?

And I just want to thank all of you that have responded and helped me. Thanks fellas.

What he is trying to get across is the DR. wanting to give 100mg per month will prove his own solution wrong. And would be forced to increase the dose to continue the treatment. My doc wanted to give me 200mg 1 time per month. I went with it. My levels were lower dosing that way,then before i started HRt. He then wanted to give 400 once per month. After 4 weeks my levels were once again rock bottom. We have comprimised on 2, 200 mg injections 2 times per month. And after 2 weeks my level was in the high 500 range. We are still playing with it though. It is trial an error with these things. Everyone is different.

 

[arnoldismyhero]

I think you are making it much more difficult, not to mention less effective, and probably far more expensive, than just using Test. "methyl" anything is usually harsh on the liver. Even Nolvedex is liver toxic. because of this you may not get that feeling of well being. Nolva and clomid make me feel like shit. and any oral Ph/s's I ever took make me feel like shite too...not that it is an apple:apple comparison but oral steroids probably aren't the best route for TRT>

ANd dude, at a TRT dose, you can do about a 1/2 year supply for under 100 dollars...

Under 150 for a yearly supply at 250/week of human grade...

To post starter: Orals are just harsh for long term use. I think you want to remain healthy, right?

 

[sizeon]

say your in early twentys is trt not somthing that would be advised, is this what most pros do basicaaly stay on but still around like 200 a week or so during pct

 

[cracker backer]

my doc has had alot of success treating younger guys who have low test with hcg monotherapy.....working well for me too

 

[dragonfire101]

I not gonna really go into it because it looks like most of the questions have been answered-and your original post it sounds like you were throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it.
I won't go into my speil about docs, but in your other thread you have a guy willing to give you 100 mg every 4 weeks most say 2 but it's in their training to administer the shot every 2-4 weeks.

Why not take him up on it? Then you can PROVE it wrong with blood work and he has to raise the dose, you may even become more suppressed in between the monthly shots-then that kinda forces him to up the dose, he can't blame it on depression or whatever.

You also don't seem to understand that you are setting yourself up for andropause and permanent HPTA suppression with HRT over the long run.

If I were 29, I'd be searching for everything I could to raise my test levels back to normal-maybe it's dietary maybe it's training maybe it's depression maybe it's stress or a combination of factors-but at 500 ng/dl these guys aren't really concerned.

You make no mention of what your past is-serious lifter, past juicer user abuser? Or just a natural lifter looking for TRT to enhance lifestlye mood and libido?
Your best shot is the wellness clinics and naturopathic docs.

I found my endo on the site listing for best dr's in NC for Thyroid, as I was getting much help from the "book boys" as I call the endos that were taught thyroid function is based upon T4 and TSH blood levels using unconverted Thyroid hormones (T4) as their "gold standard".

This site has who they rate as the top thyroid dr's-most are endos' that are sympathetic to how their patient feels not juist what the black and white blood work says.
**broken link removed**

MY DOC IS ON THERE.


He just upped my Vit D again. I needing at least 5000iu to get my levels just to stay at around 40. Going to need to up it. ARMOUR was increased also.

 

[maxmuscle925]

I am just throwin this idea out there but maybe if you did a pct cycle it would fix itself but not sure or have you already tried something like this and have you ever cycled before??