Self TRT lab results

[BBXD13]

Hey Bro's,

It's been about six weeks now I've been administering 2 shots per week of Test-C (from a board sponsor) to total approx. 170mg/wk. I do the shots on Monday and late Thursday. Just for some perspective, the blood was drawn Thursday afternoon with my last shot being the previous Monday, so I guess you could consider this a "trough". Also I had been fasted for about 15 hrs before the test.

Some points on my end:
- The Hematocrit is just barely scraping the top end, I'm attributing this to the fact I was definitely dehydrated (I usually drink a lot of water, I just didn't make a point of it this time around and when I'm not eating I don't drink as much)
- T looks pretty good for a trough, I'm guessing after a shot it probably peaks anywhere from 800-1000.
- FSH and LH to be expected, definitely pretty shut down, and I have noticed testicular atrophy at around 20-30%
- ALT and AST look great, also to be expected since I'm not "abusing" at this point

My main concern is with E2, as I know one of the hardest parts of TRT tends to be how to control it. I have been an endo my whole life, and as such, feel like I probably have a higher affinity for aromatization. I do have some 25mg Exemestane on hand, I have just been waiting to use them as I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary.

What do you guys think about E2 at 52 during a trough? My erections seem to be strong... but I have noticed my libido has been off and on. Any advice on a dose to beging with? Maybe 25mg E3D?

Any feedback from others facing lifelong TRT is appreciated. I got these tests as a baseline, as I have never abused AAS in the past, I just was blessed with terrible T production. (Levels below 200 in my early twenties) I do plan on blasting this year, I just want to get my cruise, or TRT dose, correct before doing so.

Be well,
J

*Edit
I forgot to mention the lipid profile. I'm pretty happy with it, with the exception of my LDL's being a bit high. I have been eating a diet very high in healthy fats (LOTS of mixed nuts, avocados) and mild on carbohydrates, specifically avoiding any sugars. These are my lipid profile numbers from a year ago as a comparison:
Total Chol: 175
Triglyc: 203 (May not have been fasted, can't remember)
HDL: 42
LDL 92
VLDL 41

 

[meterman5]

Just a question. Why are you doing two weekly injections with cyp ? It was my understanding that it released so slow that once a week was fine ?

 

[texastea]

Why did you start at a weekly dose of 170 mg instead of the suggested 100 mg? At a lower dose, you will likely get less conversion to estradiol. And better hematocrit numbers.

 

[BBXD13]

Just a question. Why are you doing two weekly injections with cyp ? It was my understanding that it released so slow that once a week was fine ?

Even with longer esters, the idea is that the more stable you can keep your blood levels of test, the better... Your body doesn't like large fluctuations of hormones. The higher your testosterone spikes from the initial injection, the more likely the surplus in testosterone is going to be aromatized to E.

For example, if I were to pin 170mg once a week, I might get a peak of 1300ng/dl of T with a trough of around 500-600.

By splitting that dose up 2x/wk, my peak may only reach 1000ng/dl, and from my bloods it looks as though my trough is in the 600's.

Those are just examples and not exact, but you get the picture; more frequent injections, less window for hormone fluctuations and the adverse effects that illicits. We are talking about TRT doses here, but this idea generally remains true for larger amounts when blasting.

 

[BBXD13]

Why did you start at a weekly dose of 170 mg instead of the suggested 100 mg? At a lower dose, you will likely get less conversion to estradiol. And better hematocrit numbers.

A combination of preference and past experience with other types of testosterone delivery (patches, gels) and their innefectiveness at "normal" doses. I'm also a pretty large guy, not speaking in bodybuilding terms exactly (although I am built pretty well), but I am 6'3 and have a very large frame and likely a greater blood volume than my shorter counterparts. Who knows maybe that is just broscience conjecture on my part, but to be honest, I'm glad I started there because I don't want my total T below 600 4 days after a shot (665 on my test). The hematocrit scraping the high end as I mentioned was likely due to my dehydration, it's mainly the E control that I am going to have to work out because of my assumed affinity for aromtization.

Certainly I will make an effort to stay hydrated for my next test and keep my eye on the H-crit levels, but for now it's the classic Testosterone/Estrogen balance I'm working on perfecting.

 

[surfbh]

I've read sub-q results in a slower release. This with more frequent injects, like eod will substantially lower estradiol. I can't remember who does this but I know it was a doctor with his own clinic. Maybe Crisler?

 

[BBXD13]

I've read sub-q results in a slower release. This with more frequent injects, like eod will substantially lower estradiol. I can't remember who does this but I know it was a doctor with his own clinic. Maybe Crisler?

I think Dr. G has also experimented or implemented Sub-c shots with some of his patients. Definitely something to look into

 

[Ehren]

More frequent injects @ lower mg per shot can take E2 down a bit. And if you're doing EOD shots, Sub Q or otherwise, Test Prop would lower E2 further.

Higher Body fat will also cause more aromatization, so as your BF falls (sounds like you're dieting) it may come down a bit. When you get to around 10% BF, E2 ends up being a lot lower.

Aside from the above, research says 25mg Aromasin ED lowers E2 about 38% on average. Gotta feel it out and get more labs when using it to see how it affects you. 12.5mg EOD works for me on TRT.

 

[cashrolling]

I also was having libido issues, I was taking some aromasin ad my e2 was 24, which number wise was perfect. But I remember that whe I used to do test before and don't take any ai, I was always horny, I would just take some nolva if any gyno showed up. So I stop stressing with numbers and stopped taking aromasin, after couple of weeks my libido came back. I'm sure that my body function better with higher estrogen than expected. Don't know why and I'm wondering if this happened to anyone else.......i

 

[BBXD13]

I also was having libido issues, I was taking some aromasin ad my e2 was 24, which number wise was perfect. But I remember that whe I used to do test before and don't take any ai, I was always horny, I would just take some nolva if any gyno showed up. So I stop stressing with numbers and stopped taking aromasin, after couple of weeks my libido came back. I'm sure that my body function better with higher estrogen than expected. Don't know why and I'm wondering if this happened to anyone else.......i

I'm actually thinking this might be similar for me, because I have actually been feeling really good the past 5 weeks before getting the test. I took a single dose of 25mg aromasin a few days ago, and the following day I felt much more mundane and it made my libido worse I think... this could all be in my head, but for what it's worth...

 

[BBXD13]

More frequent injects @ lower mg per shot can take E2 down a bit. And if you're doing EOD shots, Sub Q or otherwise, Test Prop would lower E2 further.

Higher Body fat will also cause more aromatization, so as your BF falls (sounds like you're dieting) it may come down a bit. When you get to around 10% BF, E2 ends up being a lot lower.

Aside from the above, research says 25mg Aromasin ED lowers E2 about 38% on average. Gotta feel it out and get more labs when using it to see how it affects you. 12.5mg EOD works for me on TRT.

Interesting... that's actually great news because my goal is to get to 10% and stay there. At proabably 14-15% currently if I had to guess.

 

[Ehren]

I also was having libido issues, I was taking some aromasin ad my e2 was 24, which number wise was perfect. But I remember that whe I used to do test before and don't take any ai, I was always horny, I would just take some nolva if any gyno showed up. So I stop stressing with numbers and stopped taking aromasin, after couple of weeks my libido came back. I'm sure that my body function better with higher estrogen than expected. Don't know why and I'm wondering if this happened to anyone else.......i

Yessir! Totally possible. Libido is pretty tied to Test/Estrogen RATIO, not the the total E2 number only. So, say your cycle is 600mg wk of Test and your test level is 3000. E2 at 24 could be too low for the correct ratio (for good libido). It's called Androgen dominance. Kills libido just as bad as high E2.

In fact, the worst day for libido for me is the day of the injection. Androgen levels shooting up and E2 same or rising slowly.

It's complicated, (my feeling based on experience)...over a certain point, E2 that's too high, is just too high no matter the ratio being ok or not.

Lets say on a bigger cycle when your test level could be at 6000, and E2 only at 150, while the ratio is "fine", 150 E2 is just too high for the body despite the ratio being ok. So it's a guessing game at that point.

 

[Demsin]

that is absolutely correct, Ehren really knows what he is talking about, not very often I find people who I can tell that they speak from lots of Experiance. The T to E ratio is very delicate.
but it is not only about the ratio, some say as long as your T to E ratio is high you will be fine but I say that is BS, the absolute level of E is very important and you dont want it to get out of the reference range. On the other hand, too low E equals no immune system and fucked up joints. I personally use 200mg T weekly with two 1.25mg letro twice a week. It puts my T at about 110% and my E at 40%

 

[Buckeye Fan]

Does trough = true? Or are we talking about something else?

 

[suppsandpins]

Trough is the dip in the graph of Test running through blood. After pinning, it could be 1200ng/ml, then after a few days it will drop and kinda stabilize - creating the trough, the 500 - 600ng/ml.

My experience is that the normal doc dosing of 200mgTest C every 2 weeks just don't cut it for me. My levels drop too soon to go that long and once a week is not as good as twice a week. It is a personal thing and something that has to experimented with.

E2 ratio is more important than the actual estro #. As someone said though, at high levels of Test, this will be difficult to manage. BW will prob be the only way to "see" what going on. There are also other factors as well that cloud the pic. Progest and LH and a few more items worth watching IMO.

I do know that when my Test/E2 (1,2,3) ratio is correct, there is nothing like it. I generally have a higher BF % than I'd like, however, conversion is not as much an issue as I "read" about. I felt my best at 500/week Test and 500/week EQ, with 2iu HGH ED and Hcg E3D - 2X's/week at 350iu - 500iu's. Started Letro cause a friend told me so, LMAO, and I began to feel bad. Dropped the Letro and swapped it for Anastrozole .25mg 24 hours after injection, I've dropped the AI alltogether. All this over a 2 month period. BW was Test - 1864 Estro - 72, that's a T/E ratio of 25.8 = Way Low. It should be between 80 - 120. Screwed up my cycle IMO, thank G it went for so long. And Demsin uses Letro twice a week with excellent results. It is a genuine person to person difference.

First "sign" for me, weakness, just a general sense of weakness. And at that low ratio as above my joints felt like they were scraping. Ouch! And these changes take place over time, so the idea of having everything planned out beforehand and having AI's on hand and a PCT if needed is important. I find it is MORE important to not change my cycle in any way unless absolutely necessary!!!

I know they have great articles here on PM, one being Swifto's - Why is it important to run an AI when on cycle. For me, I would rather the E be high because it is easier for me to manage.