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Setting calories for extremely obese.

Every massively obese person is different. Some are completely imobile at 416, others are on their feet all day and moving around. Which one is he?
Also, you need to get him to be frank with you and tell you what he eats all day. That will at least give you a rough estimate on how many cals he is consuming for maintenance. From there, it should be easy. You dont need to starve him. He'll lose weight regardless.

Before you make any adjustments, have him cut stuff like fruit juice and soda out immediately. The vast majority of soda drinkers have no clue that they are consuming liquid calories and a shit load at that. Putting him on strictly protein from where he's at now is a shock and most will quit quickly. Ease him into it. First, no soda. Then no snacks. Keep him to meals. Then, educate him on constructing a "meal." High protein, lower carb, etc. Eventually itll be 2 months in and he's eating relatively clean and 1/2 the calories he was originally consuming. That plus some activity, fat will melt off him.

This is practically how I lost 170lbs after becoming a 320lb worthless alcoholic. First, cut out the 'small big' things; drinkable calories in the form of alcohol and sodas. If they're abusing, they'll lose like crazy from that alone. Then, cutting out processed food and simple sugars, slowly cutting out snacking and junk foods. Progressively cleaner eating, then ease into low carb or keto. Then intermittent fasting, like one meal a day. That one meal, even if big and fatty, is typically good enough to still have them in a significant deficit.
 
at that size, he could lose weight eating just about anything - as long as his portions are controlled


could have him eating popeyes for 3 meals a day, and doing lots of walks


he could be the Subway Jared, but for Popeyes.... minus the whole epic fall from grace and ending up in prison part.


could get a sweet fast food chain sponsor along his fat loss journey
 
at that size, he could lose weight eating just about anything - as long as his portions are controlled


could have him eating popeyes for 3 meals a day, and doing lots of walks


he could be the Subway Jared, but for Popeyes.... minus the whole epic fall from grace and ending up in prison part.


could get a sweet fast food chain sponsor along his fat loss journey

Exactly! I have friend who got really heavy, doesn't work out, and he was over 280lbs. He has a crap diet, bean and cheese burritos, pizza, mac & cheese, etc. and when he eats out it's a root beer, lemonade, whatever and 3 refills. He cut out all sugary drinks, kept his diet the same and started running. He got down to 199lbs! It's the basic diet principle, burn more than you take in. Because he doesn't work out he didn't look as good as he could have losing all that weight but I'm hoping to get him in the gym.
 
There are two schools of thought on this that I tend to agree with here.

School 1:

- Morbidly obese can push calories extremely low with less hunger and LBM loss than a "regular" client, and with lower protein requirements.

- It's monumentally important to get that initial weight off so aggressiveness is valuable here.

- They're almost always terribly insulin resistant so high calorie restriction/fasting/low carb is very very beneficial for this population

- Start them off with little to no intensive training (walk as much as they can, for starters) and a very aggressive Keto-style diet, protein as low as .6g/lb LBM, as high as a 30-40% estimated deficit (for him, that would be something like 120-150g Protein, Carbs <50g/day and healthy fats to 2200-2500 calories-ish. Or even run them on PSMF for as long as they can stand it.

- Ride this to 25%-ish body fat and then transition them to more traditional dieting, more protein etc.

School 2:

- These people are so far off the wagon that they can make monumental progress with VERY small life-style based, "okay stop drinking soda and start walking". Trying to push them too hard too fast will make them fall off the wagon, etc.

- Make these small incremental changes as they get closer and closer to a normal weight and these lifestyle changes take hold.

I've seen both approaches work and it's very individual to the person, their personality type, and where you think they are at mentally, etc. I lean towards approach 1 when I can and have seen it work fantastically.

FWIW, the American Dietary Council (IIRC) recommends 10xbw for morbidly obese people, so that 4100cal diet really isn't as crazy as it seems.
 

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