Shortage of primo and masteron.. prep decisions… eq as an alternative or is there better?

[Swifto]

EQ was, and still is, a staple for many bodybuilders. Why some new voices came about to say you need to use a DHT like primo or mast, I couldn’t tell you. I prefer eq over both.

I am the same. Test/EQ for me is excellent. Lipids are the same as TRT. Estrogen is good.

 

[luki7788]

In theory, the most effective combination would be:
-test as a base
-19-nor
-DHT derivative
-GH
-insulin

in this way we have all possible growth paths covered

 

[traininsane11]

In the UK at least the vast majority of the current crop of coaches are under 25 y/o so haven’t really experienced anything for themselves and the bigger named coaches of which there aren’t very many over here went through a phase of DHT >>>> everything else and then everyone copied it because if you suggested anything else people would just assume you didn’t know what you were on about.

The coaching industry over here is very “trendy” and cult like people and a huge market for junior competitors who just want to be part of what everyone else is doing

For the most part everyone’s just following each other I genuinely can’t name off the top of my head a UK coach with the in depth knowledge of someone like a Justin Harris or Luki here on the board. Maybe Joe Jeffries who ironically started the trend for the whole DHT thing here in the UK. Whilst there’s many good coaches who get very good results I don’t think they could give you as much of a reason to how they do it more of a “well it works so just do that”

 

[Bobik]

In theory, the most effective combination would be:
-test as a base
-19-nor
-DHT derivative
-GH
-insulin

in this way we have all possible growth paths covered

Now my cycle is Test + Primo + NPP + GH + Slin around training.

I am very satisfied. Blood, results and I feel good.... your school bro

 

[luki7788]

In the UK at least the vast majority of the current crop of coaches are under 25 y/o so haven’t really experienced anything for themselves and the bigger named coaches of which there aren’t very many over here went through a phase of DHT >>>> everything else and then everyone copied it because if you suggested anything else people would just assume you didn’t know what you were on about.

The coaching industry over here is very “trendy” and cult like people and a huge market for junior competitors who just want to be part of what everyone else is doing

For the most part everyone’s just following each other I genuinely can’t name off the top of my head a UK coach with the in depth knowledge of someone like a Justin Harris or Luki here on the board. Maybe Joe Jeffries who ironically started the trend for the whole DHT thing here in the UK. Whilst there’s many good coaches who get very good results I don’t think they could give you as much of a reason to how they do it more of a “well it works so just do that”

From what I saw IG story today, you’re currently with Evolution Training. To be honest I don’t really know his full approach. I follow him on Instagram, but not very closely. Still, he seems like a pretty reasonable guy.

I recently watched one of his Q&As, and there were some interesting questions — like how to replace Masteron and Primo, which are super popular in the UK but now almost impossible to get. He mentioned things like EQ and DHB as possible options, so it shows he’s open-minded.

 

[traininsane11]

From what I saw IG story today, you’re currently with Evolution Training. To be honest I don’t really know his full approach. I follow him on Instagram, but not very closely. Still, he seems like a pretty reasonable guy.

I recently watched one of his Q&As, and there were some interesting questions — like how to replace Masteron and Primo, which are super popular in the UK but now almost impossible to get. He mentioned things like EQ and DHB as possible options, so it shows he’s open-minded.

Yeah Tom (evolution training) is one of the few more open minded old school coaches left. He’s been there and done it himself and pushed things too, he posted a while Back at one point he went upto I believe 7g total but realised it was overkill whereas a lot of coaches are barely into their 3rd cycles of which they copied off someone else.

This whole shortage of mast and primo has thrown so many guys off because they think there’s no alternatives because the vast majority have only been coaching since the DHT phase became the only way

Be interesting to see how the industry changes if supply remains like it is

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Thanks for everyone getting involved with their inputs, always golden the info on this forum. Do any of you find certain compounds give you better fullness than others? Was mentioned earlier someone felt they were flat on primo, I experienced this with mast no matter how many carb I jist kept going to the toilet and always looking flat

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Why was the like of primo etc not used more widely years ago when availability was better and cost cheaper? Bodybuilders go to we’re the likes of deca, eq.. what has caused the movement so much to dhts now? Seems to be much bigger in the uk than everywhere else aswell

 

[traininsane11]

Why was the like of primo etc not used more widely years ago when availability was better and cost cheaper? Bodybuilders go to we’re the likes of deca, eq.. what has caused the movement so much to dhts now? Seems to be much bigger in the uk than everywhere else aswell

Victor black is to thank/blame depending how you wanna look at it

Followed by John Jewett and Joe Jeffries seeing as they were his 2 students

 

[JonnyJHutch]

Victor black is to thank/blame depending how you wanna look at it

Followed by John Jewett and Joe Jeffries seeing as they were his 2 students

god where’s he gone to now? He’s dropped off the face of the earth. What’s your thoughts on primo vs eq mate? Preference? Results etc

 

[traininsane11]

god where’s he gone to now? He’s dropped off the face of the earth. What’s your thoughts on primo vs eq mate? Preference? Results etc

Think he was trying to sue them both last I heard lol.

Honestly I’ve ran both never together but couldn’t really tell you any difference. Hematocrit was high when I was on EQ but I was also running other compounds and always seems to be on the higher side anyway.

Maaaaaybe if you’re super conditioned you’d be able to tell a visual difference between them but I’m not overly sure really there’s many a great physique been showcased on both . I have primo so I’m running that but if I didn’t I’d run EQ and I wouldn’t be concerned about missing out on something from lack of primo

 

[Skunk101]

god where’s he gone to now? He’s dropped off the face of the earth. What’s your thoughts on primo vs eq mate? Preference? Results etc

He's obsessed with AI now and conning people into buying crypto

 

[GYMnTONIC]

I liked dht compounds when I was competing many years back. Even running Prop or suspension alongside anavar or winny really worked wonders for me.
To each his own I guess.

I know I can't use winny anymore at my age. My joints start to ache horribly at day 3-4. Its too painful for me to use sadly.

For me, EQ made me super vascular but it didn't lean me out like many other compounds did.

Did you ever consider NPP as an alternative also sir?

 

[JonnyJHutch]

I liked dht compounds when I was competing many years back. Even running Prop or suspension alongside anavar or winny really worked wonders for me.
To each his own I guess.

I know I can't use winny anymore at my age. My joints start to ache horribly at day 3-4. Its too painful for me to use sadly.

For me, EQ made me super vascular but it didn't lean me out like many other compounds did.

Did you ever consider NPP as an alternative also sir?

Npp sames to really affect my resting heart rate, like palpitations, nandrolone decanoate doesn’t though, strange I know..

 

[Flocci]

For me, EQ made me super vascular but it didn't lean me out like many other compounds did.

Did you ever consider NPP as an alternative also sir?

when you say lean out, you mean make you appear leaner/more defined or cut visually right? like masteron or winstrol can do for example.

 

[KingOfSushi]

In theory, the most effective combination would be:
-test as a base
-19-nor
-DHT derivative
-GH
-insulin

in this way we have all possible growth paths covered

This is similar to what I like to run, being test/eq with small amounts of tren (with gh and slin). I tried with test/mast but my performance and fullness didn’t feel the same for me personally.

Curious, what would be the benefit to a DHT derivate that isn’t given from the test base?

 

[KingOfSushi]

when you say lean out, you mean make you appear leaner/more defined or cut visually right? like masteron or winstrol can do for example.

I would assume so. I can’t see any injectable realistically just causing any bf loss INHERENTLY besides of course tren.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Why was the like of primo etc not used more widely years ago when availability was better and cost cheaper? Bodybuilders go to we’re the likes of deca, eq.. what has caused the movement so much to dhts now? Seems to be much bigger in the uk than everywhere else aswell

I’d say it’s been pretty popular for the last few years, so before the raws issue.

That aside, in a relative sense it’s always been expensive.

 

[luki7788]

This is similar to what I like to run, being test/eq with small amounts of tren (with gh and slin). I tried with test/mast but my performance and fullness didn’t feel the same for me personally.

Curious, what would be the benefit to a DHT derivate that isn’t given from the test base?

For example, a strong drop in SHBG means more free hormones in the blood — like higher free testosterone levels. Sure, all steroids lower SHBG, but DHT-based ones are unique in that regard. Plus, they compete with estrogen at the receptor level, which brings extra benefits like improved insulin sensitivity. Let’s not forget DHT derivatives also have anti-inflammatory effects — something many people overlook, but it’s a big plus

Btw. EQ are test family not 19-nor

 

[KingOfSushi]

For example, a strong drop in SHBG means more free hormones in the blood — like higher free testosterone levels. Sure, all steroids lower SHBG, but DHT-based ones are unique in that regard. Plus, they compete with estrogen at the receptor level, which brings extra benefits like improved insulin sensitivity. Let’s not forget DHT derivatives also have anti-inflammatory effects — something many people overlook, but it’s a big plus

Btw. EQ are test family not 19-nor

Thanks for explaining Luki. The anti inflammatory effect definitely isn’t something I considered. And correct. I did not say eq was a 19 nor though lol. I did refer to tren though as my preferred 19 nor so not sure if you mixed that up.