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So how much time can you add to your life by avoiding saturated fat??

mountaindog1

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I just wanted to share some info you guys might find very enlightening in regards to saturated fat and cholesterol and it's affect (or lack of) in heart disease.


There is a guy named Gary Taubes that absolutely destroyed the assumption that eating sat fat and cholestrol play any role in heart disease whatsoever.

This is really a series of 9 articles...but I thought this little snippet was the best....Read and laugh as I did

Here is the link to all 9 parts
National Association of Science Writers: Science in Society Awards — 2001


Gary Taubes
“The Soft Science of Dietary Fat”

Science

NOTE: A .pdf version of “The Soft Science of Dietary Fat” is also available.

The reproduction of this article is intended for non-commercial, educational purposes only.

Part Eight (sidebar): What If Americans Ate Less Saturated Fat?

Eat less saturated fat, live longer. For 30 years, this has stood as one cornerstone of nutritional advice given to Americans (see main text). But how much longer? Between 1987 and 1992, three independent research groups used computer models to work out the answer. All three analyses agreed, but their conclusions have been buried in the literature, rarely if ever cited.

All three models estimated how much longer people might expect to live, on average, if only 10% of their calories came from saturated fat as recommended. In the process their total fat intake would drop to the recommended 30% of calories. All three models assumed that LDL cholesterol — the "bad cholesterol" — levels would drop accordingly and that this diet would have no adverse effects, although that was optimistic at the time and has become considerably more so since then. All three combined national vital statistics data with cholesterol risk factor data from the Framingham Heart Study.

The first study came out of Harvard Medical School and was published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in April 1987. Led by William Taylor, it concluded that individuals with a high risk of heart disease — smokers, for instance, with high blood pressure — could expect to gain, on average, one extra year by shunning saturated fat. Healthy nonsmokers, however, might add 3 days to 3 months. "Although there are undoubtedly persons who would choose to participate in a lifelong regimen of dietary change to achieve results of this magnitude, we suspect that some might not," wrote Taylor and his colleagues.

The following year, the U.S. Surgeon General’s Office funded a study at the University of California, San Francisco, with the expectation that its results would counterbalance those of the Harvard analysis. Led by epidemiologist Warren Browner, this study concluded that cutting fat consumption in America would delay 42,000 deaths each year, but the net increase in life expectancy would average out to only 3 to 4 months. The key word was "delay," for death, like diet, is a trade-off: Everyone has to die of something. "Deaths are not prevented, they are merely delayed," Browner later wrote. "The ’saved’ people mainly die of the same things everyone else dies of; they do so a little later in life." To be precise, a woman who might otherwise die at 65 could expect to live two extra weeks after a lifetime of avoiding saturated fat. If she lived to be 90, she could expect 10 additional weeks. The third study, from researchers at McGill University in Montreal, came to virtually identical conclusions.

Browner reported his results to the Surgeon General’s Office, then submitted a paper to The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). Meanwhile, the Surgeon General’s Office — his source of funding — contacted JAMA and tried to prevent publication, claiming that the analysis was deeply flawed. JAMA reviewers disagreed and published his article, entitled "What If Americans Ate Less Fat?" in June 1991. As for Browner, he was left protecting his work from his own funding agents. "Shooting the messenger," he wrote to the Surgeon General’s Office, "or creating a smoke screen — does not change those estimates."

JM
 
I just skimmed that link he gave us and I like the logic they use. He mentions if you eat less saturated fat you are going to still take in the same # of calories and its probably going to be mostly carbs. I guess the RDA would coincide with that. The governement really pushes carbs over fats. Get real old. He also makes the point that when people's diets lower in saturated fat they usually take in less protein because the foods with lots of protein often have the saturated fats. Makes a whole lot of sense. So you end up with a diet that is too high in carbs and low in protein and fat. No wonder they dont live much longer.
 
I just skimmed that link he gave us and I like the logic they use. He mentions if you eat less saturated fat you are going to still take in the same # of calories and its probably going to be mostly carbs. I guess the RDA would coincide with that. The governement really pushes carbs over fats. Get real old. He also makes the point that when people's diets lower in saturated fat they usually take in less protein because the foods with lots of protein often have the saturated fats. Makes a whole lot of sense. So you end up with a diet that is too high in carbs and low in protein and fat. No wonder they dont live much longer.

Yep!

I ran across that info while going back through one of my favorite books that you might enjoy - "The great cholesterol con" by Dr Malcom Kendrick...

he describes in very clear technical detail why dietary fat and cholesterol do not casue heart disease..

JM
 
Yep!

I ran across that info while going back through one of my favorite books that you might enjoy - "The great cholesterol con" by Dr Malcom Kendrick...

he describes in very clear technical detail why dietary fat and cholesterol do not casue heart disease..

JM

Its really too late though to change people's minds on this. Its been so ingrained in how we were all raised and the whole medical profession has been preaching this for so long.

Next time i go in to see my cardiologist, im going to ask him about his opinion of this. This guy is really on top of things, and Ill be interested to see what he says. He is in his mid 50s or so though, so we will see what he says.

My father in law is alos a doctor and ill be seeing him this weekend. I look forward to picking his brain about this too. He is a 70 yr old retired neurologist and works for Blue Cross Blue Shield now on claims and other medical matters. He had a quintuple bypass 3 yrs ago.
 
Its really too late though to change people's minds on this. Its been so ingrained in how we were all raised and the whole medical profession has been preaching this for so long.

Next time i go in to see my cardiologist, im going to ask him about his opinion of this. This guy is really on top of things, and Ill be interested to see what he says. He is in his mid 50s or so though, so we will see what he says.

My father in law is alos a doctor and ill be seeing him this weekend. I look forward to picking his brain about this too. He is a 70 yr old retired neurologist and works for Blue Cross Blue Shield now on claims and other medical matters. He had a quintuple bypass 3 yrs ago.

I hear you on the engrained in our heads thing..no doubt. There is actually quite a momentum shift on this though- I think more and more people are beginning to understand that refined sugars, and trans fats are what is causing much of the arterial inflammation out there...

Take care my brother,
JM
 
Japanese People are one of the longest living peoples on earth.

Their diet: Greens,Rice and little serving of Fish.

No Red meat ,dairy or eggs products...

Almost no meat is consumed; virtually no eggs or dairy products are consumed either
 
Last edited:
Japanese People are one of the longest living peoples on earth.

Their diet: Greens,Rice and little serving of Fish.

No Red meat ,dairy or alot of eggs products...

Almost no meat is consumed; virtually no eggs or dairy products are consumed either

You cannot attribute their longetivity solely to their diet. Another factor, and one we have discussed on here before, is the fact that they are smaller in stature. As a people, they dont have the body mass americans do. Research has shown that life expectancy can be linked to body mass. Just another factor. There are probably many.
 
Japanese People are one of the longest living peoples on earth.

Their diet: Greens,Rice and little serving of Fish.

No Red meat ,dairy or eggs products...

Almost no meat is consumed; virtually no eggs or dairy products are consumed either

Well if we are going to play the pick a population game let's go...The Masai in Africa have the highest saturated fat and cholesterol intake ever discovered..basically they eat meat, drink raw milk, and eat butter, and drink some blood actually...do you know what their rate of heart disease is...VIRTUALLY ZERO...

When they measured their cholesterol. it was one of the lowest in the world, 50% lower than most Americans..this is with 1/2 gallon of raw milk...half POUND of butterfat,,sometimes 4 to 10 lbs a meat in a day..etc..

NEXT...

JM
 
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Japanese People are one of the longest living peoples on earth.

Their diet: Greens,Rice and little serving of Fish.

No Red meat ,dairy or eggs products...

Almost no meat is consumed; virtually no eggs or dairy products are consumed either

not true at all, don't write stuff you have no clue about. i am sure you did not do it on purpose but what your saying is false and misleading

**broken link removed**

todays' Japan is a bit different , they eat crap just like we do, they have gone same crappy food leaking into their considered normal eating, but traditionally this is a total different story. guess what all those people who are 100 were born a long time ago, they did not eat the same way an average person does today, read the article
 
Last edited:
Well if we are going to play the pick a population game let's go...The Masai in Africa have the highest saturated fat and cholesterol intake ever discovered..basically they eat meat, drink raw milk, and eat butter, and drink some blood actually...do you know what their rate of heart disease is...VIRTUALLY ZERO...

When they measured their cholesterol. it was one of the lowest in the world, 50% lower than most Americans..this is with 1/2 gallon of raw milk...half POUND of butterfat,,sometimes 4 to 10 lbs a meat in a day..etc..

NEXT...

JM
i thought this was interesting so i looked it up. I think you grossly overestimate their intake. "1/2 gallon of raw milk...half POUND of butterfat,,sometimes 4 to 10 lbs a meat in a day"
ATHEROSCLEROSIS IN THE MASAI1
GEORGE V. MANN, ANNE SPOERRY, MARGARETE GARY and DEBRA JARASHOW

Mann, G. V. (Vanderbilt Univ. School of Medicine, Nashville, Tenn. 37203), A. Spoerry, M. Gray, and D. Jarashow. Atherosclerosis in the Masai. Am J Epidemiol 95: 26–37, 1972.–The hearts and aortae of 50 Masai men were collected at autopsy. These pastoral people are exceptionally active and fit and they consume diets of milk and meat. The intake of animal fat exceeds that of American men. Measurements of the aorta showed extensive atherosclerosis with lipid infiltration and fibrous changes but very few complicated lesions. The coronary arteries showed intimal thickening by atherosclerosis which equaled that of old U.S. men. The Masai vessels enlarge with age to more than compensate for this disease. It is speculated that the Masai are protected from their atherosclerosis by physical fitness which causes their coronary vessels to be capacious.
 
Yep!

I ran across that info while going back through one of my favorite books that you might enjoy - "The great cholesterol con" by Dr Malcom Kendrick...

he describes in very clear technical detail why dietary fat and cholesterol do not casue heart disease..

JM

Did you ever read the

"The Cholesterol Myths"

by Uffe Ravnskov, MD,PhD


He also has out a newer book " Fat and Cholesterol are GOOD for You!"
 
Food for thought

Ha ha could not help the pun. Ok so, how DOES one lower LDL? OR where does it come from then? I really want to know this because heart disease runs in my family and I would like to delay the inevitable for as long as possible lol!
 
Did you ever read the

"The Cholesterol Myths"

by Uffe Ravnskov, MD,PhD


He also has out a newer book " Fat and Cholesterol are GOOD for You!"

Wait a minute... So cholesterol is good? All cholesterol? What causes the plaque buildup in the arteries?
 
Wait a minute... So cholesterol is good? All cholesterol? What causes the plaque buildup in the arteries?

There are studies and new evidence that Lipoprotein-a is main factor in cardiovascular diseases and new evidence that vitamin D deficiency may also play a role. Evidence supports that inflammation within the body is what causes plaque buildup.

C-reactive protein and homocysteine levels are better heart disease risk factors that should be checked because they would show results of inflammation going on in the body.
 
Wait a minute... So cholesterol is good? All cholesterol? What causes the plaque buildup in the arteries?

Linus Pauling and Matthias Rath theorized that plaques within the arteries are made from a cholesterol-based protein called lipoprotein which are attracted to lesions in the arteries caused by a lack of collagen, which repairs and replaces tissues. The lipoprotein is the sticky plaque which binds to other substances, eventually growing and blocking the artery completely or enough to cause a heart attack.

This is why Pauling advocated using large doses of vitamin c, to boost collagen production and decrease the occurences of lesions in the arteries, as well as assisting with converting cholesterol to bile to be excreted through the intestines.

It obviously is a controversial topic, especially since he advocates using vitamins to cure or prevent something so prominent in the medical community, however it is interesting to note that most mammals, with the exception of humans, primats and monkeys, produce their own ascorbate (vit. c) and do not have cardiovascular disease. Coincidence? Who knows.
 
Wait a minute... So cholesterol is good? All cholesterol? What causes the plaque buildup in the arteries?

Cholesterol is actually a waxy fat like substance that is not soliable in the water environment of blood, so it needs to be tranported by proteins to make it water solueable.. Cholesterol is made in the liver and is transported by a protein LDL. LDL is actually a protein responsible for tranporting cholesterol to living tissue within our body. There are many other proteins that serve other functions with in the body like sex hormone-binding globulin (SHGB) that binds to sex hormones, specifically testosterone and estradiol which are actually derived from cholesterol.. Cholesterol is a precursor for sex hormones.. Your body requires cholesterol to make them..

Back to LDL... The size of the LDL cholesterol is important.. Cholesterol lowering drugs do not modulate the size of cholesterol particles. Particle size is modulated strictly thru diet!!

Really small and dense LDL particles (Pattern B) can get stuck in the lining of the cells of the artery.. Then they don't circulate and get rancid.. These particles begin to oxidize, which leads to inflamation..

Large and bouyant LDL particles (Pattern A) don't get stuck.. They flow and are able to do their intended function. If you eat properly, which is the only known way, then your LDL will function properly..

So it really isn't LDL cholesterol that is the bad guy.. It is our lifestyle that dictates what happens to these LDL proteins..

Any molecule in your body is capable of causing damage.. Glucose and other sugars cause more inflammation and heart disease that any other molecule.. It causes Advanced Glycation End Products (Ages) (Disease, aging, inflammation) Glucose will glycate.. which causes inflammation.. Your body has receptors for AGE's which bottles them up for removal which causes inflammation, which causes damage, and ultimately causes heart disease.. With too much buildup we get arterial plaque due to scar tissue buildup.. Similiar to a scar on a hand..

Another culprit of oxidation and artial inflammation is polyunsaturated fats.. Polyunsaturated fats from vegetable oils found in LDL molecules are responsible for oxidation and artial plaque. Polyunsaturated fats are double bonded: These sites between two double bonds are vulnerable to oxidation.. Usually protected with antioxidants.. but eventually the antioxidants run out and go rancid..

Saturated fats and monosaturated fats have NO double bonds so they are not vulnerable to oxidation..

How do we ensure LDL particles don't bind to artial walls? limit intake of polyunsaturated fats, each food rich in antioxidants (vitamin e and COQ10), maintain an efficient metabolism with proper thyroid levels..

What about HDL??

HDL: takes cholesterol back to your liver to be recycled.. It is not removing the cholesterol from your body.. It is easier for the body to recycle the cholesterol rather than make new cholesterol. The liver acts as a repairing agent for the recycled cholesterol.. Antioxidants are bound to cholesterol molecules in the liver...
 
i thought this was interesting so i looked it up. I think you grossly overestimate their intake. "1/2 gallon of raw milk...half POUND of butterfat,,sometimes 4 to 10 lbs a meat in a day"

well its probably because there water supply is not contaminated with chlorine. if you look at the history of heart disease you will find that almost all cases are in countries that add chlorine to the water and that heart disease was nearly unheard of in the u.s. before about the 1920's or so . and this in spite of the fact that the diets of americans in that era included foods that were extremely high in saturated fat like pork , eggs , and other meats with little concern for health.
 
All the statins and other cholesterol lowering medications have more people under the recommended 200 total cholesterol.HDL numbers are moving in a better direction.

But,infarction rates haven't improved much if any.
 
Did you ever read the

"The Cholesterol Myths"

by Uffe Ravnskov, MD,PhD


He also has out a newer book " Fat and Cholesterol are GOOD for You!"

Yes sir - love them both - plus I got a good one a few years ago by a guy named Jon Kabara called "Fats are good for you, and other secrets - how saturated fat and cholesterol actually benefit the body"....the cholesterol myths is my absolute favorite..

JM
 

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