Sodium intake

[tornquad201]

QUESTION

how much is 8-10 grams

 

[brutus69]

how much is 8-10 grams

about 2g in a teaspoon. so, 4-5 teaspoons.

 

[Rogue]

Doesn't work out of the US. Can you copy past the article?

Business Biotech
Higher sodium, lower blood pressure. You read that right.

Low-sodium diet might not lower blood pressure
Bradley J. FikesBradley J. FikesContact Reporter

In another blow against decades of accepted medical wisdom, one of the most prestigious, long-running studies reports that lowering sodium intake doesn’t reduce blood pressure.

The study also implies that most Americans are consuming a perfectly healthy amount of salt, the main source of sodium. But those who are salt-sensitive, about 20 to 25 percent of the population, still need to restrict salt intake.

Consuming fewer than 2,500 milligrams of sodium daily is actually associated with higher blood pressure, according to the Framingham Offspring Study report, given today. The abstract is available at: j.mp/ebsaltr.

The American Heart Association recommends consuming no more than 2,300 milligrams of sodium daily, equal to a teaspoon of ordinary iodized table salt.

High blood pressure is a known risk factor for heart disease and stroke. Hence, lowering salt intake is supposed to lower blood pressure and thus reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and stroke. But the study found that supposition to be unfounded.

Moreover, the lowest blood pressure was recorded by those who consumed 4,000 milligrams or more a day — amounts considered dangerously high by medical authorities such as the American Heart Association.
Those consuming the lowest amount of sodium (blue line), had the highest blood pressures in a report
Those consuming the lowest amount of sodium (blue line), had the highest blood pressures in a report from the Framingham Offspring study. (Framingham Offspring Study)

Those taking from 2,500 milligrams to 4,000 milligrams a day had very slightly higher blood pressure, but significantly below the low-sodium group. The average American consumes 3,400 milligrams of sodium a day.

Higher levels of calcium, potassium and magnesium were also associated with lower blood pressure. The lowest readings came from people who consumed an average of 3,717 milligrams of sodium and 3,211 milligrams of potassium a day.

The study is an offshoot of the groundbreaking Framingham Heart Study. Both are projects of the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute and Boston University. The new report was funded by the National Dairy Council and the Framingham Heart Study.

The new report was delivered in Chicago during the Experimental Biology meeting by Lynn L. Moore, an associate professor of medicine at Boston University School of Medicine.

The report directly contradicts advice from the American Heart Association, which recommends consuming less than 1,500 milligrams of sodium a day to reduce blood pressure and risk of heart disease.

The American Heart Association justifies its recommendation on a 2001 study in the New England Journal of Medicine . The study is cited in a “scientific statement” by the association.

UPDATE

This story was originally published at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday. It was most recently updated at 2:30 p.m.

The NEJM study examined 412 participants for 30 days. They were randomly assigned to eat either a control diet or the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diet, which is rich in vegetables, fruits, and low-fat dairy products,in persons with and in those without hypertension.

The Framingham Offspring Study based its findings on a population of more than 2,600 men and women, whom it followed for 16 years. That means it can capture the long-term results of salt consumption, which the New England Journal of Medicine study couldn’t do because of its short duration.

Response

Cheryl Anderson, a member of the American Heart Association’s Nutrition Committee, said the study appeared to have some weaknesses in data collection, according to its abstract. Anderson didn’t attend the presentation, because she was delivering her own at the same time.

The best standard for such studies of sodium intake is a 24-hour multiple urine collections protocol, which the study didn’t have, said Anderson, an associate professor in the Department of Family and Preventive Medicine at UC San Diego.

The study used dietary records, which aren’t as accurate as direct measurement, Anderson said.

And it’s also possible that some of those in the study may have changed their sodium intake because they developed high blood pressure, which would confound the correlation, she said.

“When I put it in the broader context of the general literature around dietary sodium assessment and blood pressure, particularly from what we know about clinical trials, (the study) didn’t bother me in any way,” Anderson said.

“Until I see the whole paper, this is not going in any way to disrupt my current thinking around that fact that high sodium intakes are likely to increase your blood pressure.”

Anderson pointed to studies that examined the relationship between sodium intake and the outcome of cardiovascular disease events. These include a study published in the journal BMJ in 2007, led by Nancy Cook of Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School in Boston.

That study enrolled 744 participants with prehypertension, randomized to either a low-sodium diet or control. It included an original measurement of sodium and subsequent followups.

“The crude rate of cardiovascular disease was somewhat lower among those assigned to the sodium reduction intervention in stratified analysis) than corresponding controls,” the study stated. “After adjustment for baseline characteristics, particularly the imbalance in age, there were significant differences between groups.”

That study began with urinary measurements of sodium excretion, but in the final long-term followup questionnaire, the study used self-reported information on sodium intake.

Anderson said ideally, such studies outcomes would have followed the 24-hour urine collection protocol, but that has proven too difficult. People would need to be monitored for decades to detect the long-term effects of dietary sodium, and that would be prohibitively expensive.

“Are you going to give me money for 25 years to do that?” Anderson asked. “That’s why these studies haven’t been done. It’s because they’re logistically quite a challenge, from a funding perspective almost impossible.”

Extrapolation invalidated

Moore, who delivered the report at the Experimental Biology meeting, said the putative link between higher sodium consumption, higher blood pressure, and cardiovascular disease and stroke wasn’t well understood. More recent evidence suggests the logic behind that link is flawed.

Early studies found that among those with high blood pressure, restricting sodium lowered blood pressure.

“A low-sodium diet has been popularized for a few decades, and I think it originally had to do with the observation that among people with high blood pressure, if you restrict their sodium intake, their blood pressure actually goes down.”

“I think that led to the inference that restricting your sodium intake in general (among the public) would actually reduce your risk of developing high blood pressure,” Moore said.

Further extrapolating, since higher blood pressure is a risk factor for cardivascular diseases, then lowering sodium would lower blood pressure and hence lower cardiovascular disease rates.

This chain-of-events thinking led to the recommendation that the general population cut its sodium intake. This belief has led to numerous initiatives to lower dietary sodium, including former First Lady Michelle Obama’s campaign to mandate “healthy” changes in school lunches. President Trump reportedly plans to drop some of those restrictions.

Meanwhile, evidence undermined the extrapolation, Moore said. The picture turned out to be much more complicated. People on the lowest-sodium diets actually appeared to have higher cardiovascular risk and risk of dying than those taking more sodium.

“There’s been consequently a lot of controversy over the last five or six years over this topic, but there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that the relationship between sodium and cardiovascular disease is actually J-shaped.”

Moore was referring to a pattern in which an extremely low level of the substance being measured produces a higher risk, which falls to a plateau and then rises again at the higher extreme.

This is the pattern found in an August 2014 study in the New England Journal of Medicine, which found a greatly elevated risk of death or major heart event at the dietary sodium level recommended by the American Heart Association.

The study also found that the average intake for Americans placed them near the bottom of the risk curve.

Anderson, the American Heart Association scientist, said that study was also flawed because it didn’t use a 24-hour urine collection protocol.

Biologically determined?

Moore said greater attention needs to be given to a hypothesis that people generally consume the amount of sodium they need. In other words, they are biologically driven to keep their consumption within a certain range.

The J-shaped curve implies that tampering with this drive could cause unforeseen health problems.

“There’s evidence that salt restriction has a lot of effects on other systems other than blood pressure,” Moore said. “You end up with higher levels of renin, rather than lower levels,” referring to an enzyme that helps raise blood pressure.

“Other studies have shown that cholesterol goes up, triglyceride levels go up,. So there are a number of effects on known risk factors for heart disease that are independent of blood pressure, that seem to be activated in a setting of salt restriction,” she said.



Growing evidence exonerates salt

Other reports in recent years have challenged the scientific basis of dietary advice on salt. These include a 2011 Cochrane Review study, a Sept. 2014 study in the American Journal of Hypertension, and in January 2015, in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommended that sodium intake be lowered to 2,300 milligrams per day for the general population. , The report is a joint project of the U.S. Departments of Health and Human Services and of Agriculture.

However, a 2013 report by the Institute of Medicine specifically declined to endorse that limit, in part because the quality of information was insufficient.

"Overall, the committee found that both the quantity and quality of relevant studies to be less than optimal," the IOM report delicately stated.

But the carefully worded report also concluded that the bulk of the evidence indicates a correlation between higher levels of sodium intake and cardiovascular disease.

It also said there was insufficient evidence to conclude that lowering sodium intake below 2,300 milligrams per day either increases or decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease or death in the general population.

The 2015 version of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans repeats the recommendation to lower sodium intake to less than 2,300 milligrams.

The next edition of the guidelines is scheduled to be released in 2020.

(If you liked this article, you might like my article on diet and nutritional supplements.)
As much as 2.6% of your DNA is from Neanderthals. This is what it's doing
CAPTION
As much as 2.6% of your DNA is from Neanderthals. This is what it's doing
NASA's asteroid-hunting spacecraft flies past Earth en route to mission
FDA cracks down on stem cell clinics
In a first, scientists rid human embryos of a potentially fatal gene mutation by editing their DNA
Why doctors need to distinguish forms of dementia and how they might do so

[email protected]

(619) 293-1020
Privacy Policy
Copyright © 2018, The San Diego Union-Tribune

Biology Nutrition Research Medical Research Nutrition

 

[oliveironni]

Business Biotech
Higher sodium, lower blood pressure. You read that right.

Low-sodium diet might not lower blood pressure
Bradley J. FikesBradley J. FikesContact Reporter

In another blow against decades of accepted medical wisdom, one of the most prestigious, long-running studies reports that lowering sodium intake doesn’t reduce blood pressure.

The study also implies that most Americans are consuming a perfectly healthy amount of salt, the main source of sodium. But those who are salt-sensitive, about 20 to 25 percent of the population, still need to restrict salt intake.

Consuming fewer than 2,500 milligrams of sodium daily is actually associated with higher blood pressure, according to the Framingham Offspring Study report, given today. The abstract is available at: j.mp/ebsaltr.

The American Heart Association recommends consuming no more than 2,300 milligrams of sodium daily, equal to a teaspoon of ordinary iodized table salt.

High blood pressure is a known risk factor for heart disease and stroke. Hence, lowering salt intake is supposed to lower blood pressure and thus reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and stroke. But the study found that supposition to be unfounded.

Moreover, the lowest blood pressure was recorded by those who consumed 4,000 milligrams or more a day — amounts considered dangerously high by medical authorities such as the American Heart Association.
Those consuming the lowest amount of sodium (blue line), had the highest blood pressures in a report
Those consuming the lowest amount of sodium (blue line), had the highest blood pressures in a report from the Framingham Offspring study. (Framingham Offspring Study)

Those taking from 2,500 milligrams to 4,000 milligrams a day had very slightly higher blood pressure, but significantly below the low-sodium group. The average American consumes 3,400 milligrams of sodium a day.

Higher levels of calcium, potassium and magnesium were also associated with lower blood pressure. The lowest readings came from people who consumed an average of 3,717 milligrams of sodium and 3,211 milligrams of potassium a day.

The study is an offshoot of the groundbreaking Framingham Heart Study. Both are projects of the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute and Boston University. The new report was funded by the National Dairy Council and the Framingham Heart Study.

The new report was delivered in Chicago during the Experimental Biology meeting by Lynn L. Moore, an associate professor of medicine at Boston University School of Medicine.

The report directly contradicts advice from the American Heart Association, which recommends consuming less than 1,500 milligrams of sodium a day to reduce blood pressure and risk of heart disease.

The American Heart Association justifies its recommendation on a 2001 study in the New England Journal of Medicine . The study is cited in a “scientific statement” by the association.

UPDATE

This story was originally published at 8:30 a.m. Tuesday. It was most recently updated at 2:30 p.m.

The NEJM study examined 412 participants for 30 days. They were randomly assigned to eat either a control diet or the Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension (DASH) diet, which is rich in vegetables, fruits, and low-fat dairy products,in persons with and in those without hypertension.

The Framingham Offspring Study based its findings on a population of more than 2,600 men and women, whom it followed for 16 years. That means it can capture the long-term results of salt consumption, which the New England Journal of Medicine study couldn’t do because of its short duration.

Response

Cheryl Anderson, a member of the American Heart Association’s Nutrition Committee, said the study appeared to have some weaknesses in data collection, according to its abstract. Anderson didn’t attend the presentation, because she was delivering her own at the same time.

The best standard for such studies of sodium intake is a 24-hour multiple urine collections protocol, which the study didn’t have, said Anderson, an associate professor in the Department of Family and Preventive Medicine at UC San Diego.

The study used dietary records, which aren’t as accurate as direct measurement, Anderson said.

And it’s also possible that some of those in the study may have changed their sodium intake because they developed high blood pressure, which would confound the correlation, she said.

“When I put it in the broader context of the general literature around dietary sodium assessment and blood pressure, particularly from what we know about clinical trials, (the study) didn’t bother me in any way,” Anderson said.

“Until I see the whole paper, this is not going in any way to disrupt my current thinking around that fact that high sodium intakes are likely to increase your blood pressure.”

Anderson pointed to studies that examined the relationship between sodium intake and the outcome of cardiovascular disease events. These include a study published in the journal BMJ in 2007, led by Nancy Cook of Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School in Boston.

That study enrolled 744 participants with prehypertension, randomized to either a low-sodium diet or control. It included an original measurement of sodium and subsequent followups.

“The crude rate of cardiovascular disease was somewhat lower among those assigned to the sodium reduction intervention in stratified analysis) than corresponding controls,” the study stated. “After adjustment for baseline characteristics, particularly the imbalance in age, there were significant differences between groups.”

That study began with urinary measurements of sodium excretion, but in the final long-term followup questionnaire, the study used self-reported information on sodium intake.

Anderson said ideally, such studies outcomes would have followed the 24-hour urine collection protocol, but that has proven too difficult. People would need to be monitored for decades to detect the long-term effects of dietary sodium, and that would be prohibitively expensive.

“Are you going to give me money for 25 years to do that?” Anderson asked. “That’s why these studies haven’t been done. It’s because they’re logistically quite a challenge, from a funding perspective almost impossible.”

Extrapolation invalidated

Moore, who delivered the report at the Experimental Biology meeting, said the putative link between higher sodium consumption, higher blood pressure, and cardiovascular disease and stroke wasn’t well understood. More recent evidence suggests the logic behind that link is flawed.

Early studies found that among those with high blood pressure, restricting sodium lowered blood pressure.

“A low-sodium diet has been popularized for a few decades, and I think it originally had to do with the observation that among people with high blood pressure, if you restrict their sodium intake, their blood pressure actually goes down.”

“I think that led to the inference that restricting your sodium intake in general (among the public) would actually reduce your risk of developing high blood pressure,” Moore said.

Further extrapolating, since higher blood pressure is a risk factor for cardivascular diseases, then lowering sodium would lower blood pressure and hence lower cardiovascular disease rates.

This chain-of-events thinking led to the recommendation that the general population cut its sodium intake. This belief has led to numerous initiatives to lower dietary sodium, including former First Lady Michelle Obama’s campaign to mandate “healthy” changes in school lunches. President Trump reportedly plans to drop some of those restrictions.

Meanwhile, evidence undermined the extrapolation, Moore said. The picture turned out to be much more complicated. People on the lowest-sodium diets actually appeared to have higher cardiovascular risk and risk of dying than those taking more sodium.

“There’s been consequently a lot of controversy over the last five or six years over this topic, but there is a growing body of evidence suggesting that the relationship between sodium and cardiovascular disease is actually J-shaped.”

Moore was referring to a pattern in which an extremely low level of the substance being measured produces a higher risk, which falls to a plateau and then rises again at the higher extreme.

This is the pattern found in an August 2014 study in the New England Journal of Medicine, which found a greatly elevated risk of death or major heart event at the dietary sodium level recommended by the American Heart Association.

The study also found that the average intake for Americans placed them near the bottom of the risk curve.

Anderson, the American Heart Association scientist, said that study was also flawed because it didn’t use a 24-hour urine collection protocol.

Biologically determined?

Moore said greater attention needs to be given to a hypothesis that people generally consume the amount of sodium they need. In other words, they are biologically driven to keep their consumption within a certain range.

The J-shaped curve implies that tampering with this drive could cause unforeseen health problems.

“There’s evidence that salt restriction has a lot of effects on other systems other than blood pressure,” Moore said. “You end up with higher levels of renin, rather than lower levels,” referring to an enzyme that helps raise blood pressure.

“Other studies have shown that cholesterol goes up, triglyceride levels go up,. So there are a number of effects on known risk factors for heart disease that are independent of blood pressure, that seem to be activated in a setting of salt restriction,” she said.



Growing evidence exonerates salt

Other reports in recent years have challenged the scientific basis of dietary advice on salt. These include a 2011 Cochrane Review study, a Sept. 2014 study in the American Journal of Hypertension, and in January 2015, in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommended that sodium intake be lowered to 2,300 milligrams per day for the general population. , The report is a joint project of the U.S. Departments of Health and Human Services and of Agriculture.

However, a 2013 report by the Institute of Medicine specifically declined to endorse that limit, in part because the quality of information was insufficient.

"Overall, the committee found that both the quantity and quality of relevant studies to be less than optimal," the IOM report delicately stated.

But the carefully worded report also concluded that the bulk of the evidence indicates a correlation between higher levels of sodium intake and cardiovascular disease.

It also said there was insufficient evidence to conclude that lowering sodium intake below 2,300 milligrams per day either increases or decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease or death in the general population.

The 2015 version of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans repeats the recommendation to lower sodium intake to less than 2,300 milligrams.

The next edition of the guidelines is scheduled to be released in 2020.

(If you liked this article, you might like my article on diet and nutritional supplements.)
As much as 2.6% of your DNA is from Neanderthals. This is what it's doing
CAPTION
As much as 2.6% of your DNA is from Neanderthals. This is what it's doing
NASA's asteroid-hunting spacecraft flies past Earth en route to mission
FDA cracks down on stem cell clinics
In a first, scientists rid human embryos of a potentially fatal gene mutation by editing their DNA
Why doctors need to distinguish forms of dementia and how they might do so

[email protected]

(619) 293-1020
Privacy Policy
Copyright [emoji2398] 2018, The San Diego Union-Tribune

Biology Nutrition Research Medical Research Nutrition

Thanks bro

 

[Bigpump9]

Keep water intake higher , avoid caffeine and energy drinks. Unless you have history of high bp you should stick around 3 grams sodium for good pumps

 

[Rogue]

Keep water intake higher , avoid caffeine and energy drinks. Unless you have history of high bp you should stick around 3 grams sodium for good pumps

Water NOT too high, as required when thirsty or training, when sodium is optimal you will know when to drink.
My recommendation as performance enhancer, if that's what you are using it for is to start at 10grams/daily and go 2 up or 2 down as needed.
If you don't have a per-existing BP MEDICAL condition , you will experience a array of benefits including lowered BP after 72 hours.
Consistency is the key with this supplement.
Remember your body secrets its retained sodium the more of it it sees.
This is NOT medical advise, anecdotal over 20 years plus experience and IMO.

 

[warlock]

Water NOT too high, as required when thirsty or training, when sodium is optimal you will know when to drink.
My recommendation as performance enhancer, if that's what you are using it for is to start at 10grams/daily and go 2 up or 2 down as needed.
If you don't have a per-existing BP MEDICAL condition , you will experience a array of benefits including lowered BP after 72 hours.
Consistency is the key with this supplement.
Remember your body secrets its retained sodium the more of it it sees.
This is NOT medical advise, anecdotal over 20 years plus experience and IMO.

Would you recommend the 10g to come from SEA SALT exclusively?

How do you go about getting in 10g per day?

 

[Rogue]

Would you recommend the 10g to come from SEA SALT exclusively?

How do you go about getting in 10g per day?

If you can, Warlock. Salt your food, add some into your Oatmeal, add some to your pre-workout for a quick pick me up, add some into your post workout shake...
You can also look at fermented pickles. Sauerkrauts etc.. those are high in Sodium and a GREAT source of probiotics to help digest the food you eat.
Do not count whats naturally occurring in the food, I am recommending 10g/daily as a supplement. Give it a try, let me know what you think.

 

[joos23]

If you can, Warlock. Salt your food, add some into your Oatmeal, add some to your pre-workout for a quick pick me up, add some into your post workout shake...
You can also look at fermented pickles. Sauerkrauts etc.. those are high in Sodium and a GREAT source of probiotics to help digest the food you eat.
Do not count whats naturally occurring in the food, I am recommending 10g/daily as a supplement. Give it a try, let me know what you think.

I am doing a little of 3g added daily and I love it! I'm trying pink salt right now

 

[joos23]

If you can, Warlock. Salt your food, add some into your Oatmeal, add some to your pre-workout for a quick pick me up, add some into your post workout shake...
You can also look at fermented pickles. Sauerkrauts etc.. those are high in Sodium and a GREAT source of probiotics to help digest the food you eat.
Do not count whats naturally occurring in the food, I am recommending 10g/daily as a supplement. Give it a try, let me know what you think.

How much Sauerkraut you suggest? I read a thing that a 1/2c is good for probiotics and etc. Do you suggest more?

 

[warlock]

If you can, Warlock. Salt your food, add some into your Oatmeal, add some to your pre-workout for a quick pick me up, add some into your post workout shake...
You can also look at fermented pickles. Sauerkrauts etc.. those are high in Sodium and a GREAT source of probiotics to help digest the food you eat.
Do not count whats naturally occurring in the food, I am recommending 10g/daily as a supplement. Give it a try, let me know what you think.

Thanks Rogue.

I salt all my foods and use extra SALT during training but, I'm sure I do not get to the 10g mark.

Other than staying full, what other benefits is one expect to get when hitting the 10g mark?

 

[Rogue]

You'll certainly be fuller and stronger, the joints will also benefit.
At he beginning, If you are shifting from the traditional lower sodium diets
You will notice that you are getting leaner without the effort of caloric restrictions, you will then want to keep it up so as to maintain that condition. I notice consistent energy through hard training , and a slight metabolic elevation. I could go on with things like cognitive enhancement etc... but I think that's individual.

 

[g0ttequila]

The only thing we use a pinkish colored salt for over here in Belgium is to get rid of the snow on the roads

You can get pink Himalayan salt in nearly any supermarket in Belgium. I’ve been buying it for years...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rogue]

You can get pink Himalayan salt in nearly any supermarket in Belgium. I’ve been buying it for years...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pink has a nice mineral profile. I do however recommend IODIZED sea salt.
The Himalayan salt is low in IODINE.

 

[Rogue]

Although pink Himalayan salt may naturally contain some iodine, it contains less iodine than iodized salt. Therefore, those who have iodine deficiency or are at risk of deficiency may need to source iodine elsewhere if using pink salt instead of table salt

 

[j2048b]

So iodine salt, potassium from veggies too id suppose correct?

Ive been sent this direction ss of late by 2 individuals, not even sure they are on this board anymore, and it had helped energy and overall mood emencially



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Rogue]

So iodine salt, potassium from veggies too id suppose correct?

Ive been sent this direction ss of late by 2 individuals, not even sure they are on this board anymore, and it had helped energy and overall mood emencially



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

I used to give a seminars with the late Paul Boresen at the end of the 90's, and people would ask me what the best supplement I thought is. When I would say "SALT", people would brush it off with a low tone smirk in the back... Then they would then ask me what the SECOND best supplement I thought was....
I dont think anyone ever took it seriously, and Paul asked me to stop giving that kind of advise, people want to know what they can PAY FOR in supplements and we are in a position to SELL just about anything. There has to be a 'SECRET' out there.
Well , times have changed and Athletes have come to realize that its the hard work, and love of BB that pays off at the end, being that we are ALL friends, if someone was to ask me about supplements, I would give the same advise followed by "try it for couple weeks ,cant loose".

 

[Jblack]

There is a great book called the “Salt Fix.” I worked my salt up to 8 grams a day and be dropped to 122/71 normal. Always had 135-145 over 70s but since upping salt my systolic dropped.


It really opened my eyes and since implementing high salt I feel great.

 

[Tank211]

I do,
and get it from SEA SALT, the one with Iodine.
200lb man, I would say get 8-10 grams daily.
Best supplement you can take to stay hard , full and get lean on positive calory intake.

Rogue what brand of Sea Salt w/ Iodine do you buy? and thank you for sharing all the great info in this thread!

 

[OutToLunch]

Rogue what brand of Sea Salt w/ Iodine do you buy? and thank you for sharing all the great info in this thread!

Seasonello