.gif "IP Gear")
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2021
- Messages
- 1,701
These are some thoughts I've been bouncing around with respect to rhGH use on keto diets.
Please feel free to attack my logic (probably an interesting exercise for a nutritionist or a seasoned bodybuilding coach) [please conform to a technical writing style and limit any persuasive writing techniques to the use of logos rather than pathos]:
Keto (without drugs; for naturals): good for longevity and for fat loss (especially dieting down to low body fat levels) but incompatible with optimal/maximal muscular strength and muscle mass gains due to insufficient glycolytic pathway energy substrates to sustain high intensity muscular contractions; and due to reduced Akt/mTOR activity (controls muscle protein synthesis, translation); ketone bodies additionally serve to confer a protein sparing effect to claw back some retention of muscle loss: well-designed cyclical regimens best support all of these aims.
Keto (with rhGH): accelerates fat loss in energy deficit (due to increased insulin resistance in adipocytes). In fact, GH increases hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity; direct oxidation of FFAs; and suppresses the lipoprotein lipase (LPL) in adipose tissue. But, the increase in blood levels of FFAs (attendant to increased dietary fat intakes) decreases adipose tissue HSL activity, thus reducing hydrolysis of "trapped" triglyceride, despite the insulin resistant effects on the adipocyte (preventing storage of new triglyceride therein)... expect circulating FFAs to be very high. Now, GH likely prevents muscle catabolism by its anticatabolic effects (i.e., net retention of LBM and protein stores during fasting; N, Ca, K retention, though largely in the extracellular matrix).
- But increases to muscular size and strength in an energy surplus (keto) will be relatively slowed relative to an isocaloric balanced or high carbohydrate diet due mostly to lack of glycolytic substrates (again, necessary to support intense resistance training). RhGH use will promote some muscle anabolism by IGF-I-mediated Akt/mTOR activity (again sort of "clawing back" some anabolic potency despite somewhat reduced insulin levels vs. higher carbohydrate intakes).
You could certainly make the argument without looking foolish whatsoever that keto is rational with rhGH for fat loss and even recomp (energy deficit, or at maintenance).
I do, however, believe many of the rationales underpinning keto are eviscerated, at least partly, by rhGH use: i.e., maintaining low insulin levels (increased by rhGH) to promote FA liberation by the utilization of MCTs and ketone bodies to support such; protein sparing by ketone bodies (considering the far more profound effects of rhGH/AAS to effect anticatabolism); and the very fact that rhGH serves lipolytic, recomp, and growth functions better than keto does on an isocaloric moderate-high carbohydrate diet (with improved muscular strength and size increases) renders keto+rhGH suboptimal.
Now, the use of some principles from cyclical keto dietary regimens (e.g., titrating carbohydrate intakes around training; maintaining insulin sensitivity with low carbohydrate/higher dietary fat intakes - without actually entering or maintaining a state of ketosis) apply almost universally to enhanced bodybuilders.
But rhGH+keto would seem quite different (and less logical) vs. keto for a natural bodybuilder.
None of this is to say that rhGH+keto does not support increased muscle size/strength, but rather that it is suboptimal versus a moderate/high carbohydrate intake diet with the use of rhGH.
@homonunculus @luki7788 @troponin @The_Beast just a few guys that come to mind.
Please feel free to attack my logic (probably an interesting exercise for a nutritionist or a seasoned bodybuilding coach) [please conform to a technical writing style and limit any persuasive writing techniques to the use of logos rather than pathos]:
Keto (without drugs; for naturals): good for longevity and for fat loss (especially dieting down to low body fat levels) but incompatible with optimal/maximal muscular strength and muscle mass gains due to insufficient glycolytic pathway energy substrates to sustain high intensity muscular contractions; and due to reduced Akt/mTOR activity (controls muscle protein synthesis, translation); ketone bodies additionally serve to confer a protein sparing effect to claw back some retention of muscle loss: well-designed cyclical regimens best support all of these aims.
Keto (with rhGH): accelerates fat loss in energy deficit (due to increased insulin resistance in adipocytes). In fact, GH increases hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity; direct oxidation of FFAs; and suppresses the lipoprotein lipase (LPL) in adipose tissue. But, the increase in blood levels of FFAs (attendant to increased dietary fat intakes) decreases adipose tissue HSL activity, thus reducing hydrolysis of "trapped" triglyceride, despite the insulin resistant effects on the adipocyte (preventing storage of new triglyceride therein)... expect circulating FFAs to be very high. Now, GH likely prevents muscle catabolism by its anticatabolic effects (i.e., net retention of LBM and protein stores during fasting; N, Ca, K retention, though largely in the extracellular matrix).
- But increases to muscular size and strength in an energy surplus (keto) will be relatively slowed relative to an isocaloric balanced or high carbohydrate diet due mostly to lack of glycolytic substrates (again, necessary to support intense resistance training). RhGH use will promote some muscle anabolism by IGF-I-mediated Akt/mTOR activity (again sort of "clawing back" some anabolic potency despite somewhat reduced insulin levels vs. higher carbohydrate intakes).
You could certainly make the argument without looking foolish whatsoever that keto is rational with rhGH for fat loss and even recomp (energy deficit, or at maintenance).
I do, however, believe many of the rationales underpinning keto are eviscerated, at least partly, by rhGH use: i.e., maintaining low insulin levels (increased by rhGH) to promote FA liberation by the utilization of MCTs and ketone bodies to support such; protein sparing by ketone bodies (considering the far more profound effects of rhGH/AAS to effect anticatabolism); and the very fact that rhGH serves lipolytic, recomp, and growth functions better than keto does on an isocaloric moderate-high carbohydrate diet (with improved muscular strength and size increases) renders keto+rhGH suboptimal.
Now, the use of some principles from cyclical keto dietary regimens (e.g., titrating carbohydrate intakes around training; maintaining insulin sensitivity with low carbohydrate/higher dietary fat intakes - without actually entering or maintaining a state of ketosis) apply almost universally to enhanced bodybuilders.
But rhGH+keto would seem quite different (and less logical) vs. keto for a natural bodybuilder.
None of this is to say that rhGH+keto does not support increased muscle size/strength, but rather that it is suboptimal versus a moderate/high carbohydrate intake diet with the use of rhGH.
@homonunculus @luki7788 @troponin @The_Beast just a few guys that come to mind.
) low fat waffles with syrup, rice Crispy treats, ect. Pretty much its Pasquales anabolic diet.
