Some thoughts on recent post about carbs pre and intra-workout

[mountaindog1]

Bodybuilders are not strength athletes, power athletes, or endurance athletes.

They are somewhere in between (at least at the elite level).

So following the nutrition protocols from any of those aforementioned sports won't have as large of a translational effect.

Accordingly, a bodybuilder's nutrition should be somewhere in between.

Good post, John.

EDIT: as a side note, I am getting kind of irritated at people thinking that they can manipulate their endogenous hormone production through diet (like testosterone/GH secretion) to the point to get supraphysiological effects.

I'll be damned the amount of GH you "inhibit" is that extra 0.000001 IU you needed in order to win the olympia.

The only hormones (in my opinion) you can really control that make a difference are insulin and leptin.

I am sooooooooooo with you on this....

 

[mountaindog1]

John,

I know who you are quoting here. Besides this issue, do you seem to agree with some of his other theories or ideas or are yours totally different than his (Granted i have worked with you 2 or 3 times in the past so i know your likes and dislikes but am curious as to what your thoughts about his teachings are).

His early theories yes, but the boatloading fish oil and things that came after..no.

JM

 

[heavyhitter]

Hey John, i've seen good results with high dose fish oil. I take 10-12 capsules a day and have noticed better cholesterol numbers as well as slight joint relief and enhanced digestion( I have IBS). What about it do you not like? Or by boatloading are you speaking of much higher doses?

 

[mountaindog1]

Hey John, i've seen good results with high dose fish oil. I take 10-12 capsules a day and have noticed better cholesterol numbers as well as slight joint relief and enhanced digestion( I have IBS). What about it do you not like? Or by boatloading are you speaking of much higher doses?

Higher!

Enough that people bruise easily...

 

[lookingforanedge]

Is this coach P?

 

[pieguy]

Soon as you mentioned mega dose fish oil, Polxxxxx snapped into my head. Yeah, 30-45g of fish oil seems a bit high...

 

[Knight9]

Can't understand how I missed this exchange on fb.

Im surprised people still go by "caps" of fish oil. The only way it makes sense is if you are getting the standard 180/120 epa/dha caps but since I like the equivalent omega3 that is in at least 10 a day(standard)..... I just get higher concentrated caps as it islesspills to swallow and less gelatin you have to process and shit out. Also, you can slightly manipulate the percentage of epa:dha depending on your options. Personally, I feel higher EPA is more important even though the popular thing to pimp is dha.

For full benefits, shoot for 2-3grams total epa and dha. I have read that over 4g will start to show diminished returns.

 

[desibaba]

Why should anyone who supplements with GH worry about the GH release during training or the natural "Pulse" at night? Wouldnt that be the equivalent of comparing a drop of water to a bucket of water.

 

[mountaindog1]

Why should anyone who supplements with GH worry about the GH release during training or the natural "Pulse" at night? Wouldnt that be the equivalent of comparing a drop of water to a bucket of water.

Yes I agree with you. What the other poster said, and what I agree with, is people thinking they are going to get a SUPRAphysiological response (for GH and test) based on some food manipulation..

It's as silly as when someone says don't eat any sweet potato around your GH shot or it won't work...

 

[Hellbilly]

Pre, Intra and Post- I love it. Really don't feel right training without them. Just like leg curls at the beginning of leg day-- some shit just works for me.

 

[cthompson]

I've just started using my carbs pre intra post only. Hoping it helps me with some fat loss during the day and utilize the carbs during workouts. I guess time with tell with me.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[xjpx]

He has ulterior motives in everything he preaches now. If he thinks intra wo carbs will hinder you being able to load the bar, due to sleepyness etc... You should invite him down to yours John and kick his ass all over the gym, and watch him beg for a sip of your peri workout shake haha .

 

[KillerStack]

This is sort of OT for this thread, but anyone heard of or used egg yolk hydrolysate? Just came across a post by Brian Batcheldor on Facebook where he said, "My research shows me that alpha-lactalbumin isolate and
egg yolk hydrolysate are by far the 2 best sources of animal protein."

 

[Arcangel]

Is this coach P?

Yes

 

[zaosha]

I couldn't train heavy and hard like I do without carb loading before the gym. I don't do the intra thing, just the pre and post workout. I don't do insulin, but I think the results people get from an insulin protocol proves how valuable carbs are around your workout.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on the benefits of exogenous insulin use. High dose AAS and GH really alter glucose tolerance and Insulin becomes a necessary adjunct and seems to create some synergy. Shooting slin in any meaningful amount without AAS/GH is good way to get fat for most people.

I think the value of carbs in and around the workout depends heavily on volume. If you are training Dorian or DC-style it is probably of very limited benefit simply because glycogen isn't being depleted to a meaningful degree. Higher volume training is where I think this will provide some solid results.

 

[zaosha]

He has ulterior motives in everything he preaches now. If he thinks intra wo carbs will hinder you being able to load the bar, due to sleepyness etc... You should invite him down to yours John and kick his ass all over the gym, and watch him beg for a sip of your peri workout shake haha .

CP is just a fucking joke these days. I pity the people who waste their time and money following his advice.

 

[mountaindog1]

He has ulterior motives in everything he preaches now. If he thinks intra wo carbs will hinder you being able to load the bar, due to sleepyness etc... You should invite him down to yours John and kick his ass all over the gym, and watch him beg for a sip of your peri workout shake haha .

I know!

 

[mountaindog1]

I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on the benefits of exogenous insulin use. High dose AAS and GH really alter glucose tolerance and Insulin becomes a necessary adjunct and seems to create some synergy. Shooting slin in any meaningful amount without AAS/GH is good way to get fat for most people.

I think the value of carbs in and around the workout depends heavily on volume. If you are training Dorian or DC-style it is probably of very limited benefit simply because glycogen isn't being depleted to a meaningful degree. Higher volume training is where I think this will provide some solid results.

Very well said. I always say your nutrition around training should match your training style. I pull back a bit on intraworkout nutrition when someone is training with minimal volume and in and out of the gym in a very short timeframe.

JM

 

[heavyhitter]

30-45 grams of fish oil? Holy crap! I shoot for around 3 grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day which is about 12 of the capsules i use.

 

[Lene28]

Bodybuilders are not strength athletes, power athletes, or endurance athletes.

They are somewhere in between (at least at the elite level).

So following the nutrition protocols from any of those aforementioned sports won't have as large of a translational effect.

Accordingly, a bodybuilder's nutrition should be somewhere in between.

Good post, John.

EDIT: as a side note, I am getting kind of irritated at people thinking that they can manipulate their endogenous hormone production through diet (like testosterone/GH secretion) to the point to get supraphysiological effects.

I'll be damned the amount of GH you "inhibit" is that extra 0.000001 IU you needed in order to win the olympia.

The only hormones (in my opinion) you can really control that make a difference are insulin and leptin.

This is a great post! This is something I always wondered about.