Something I feel obligated to tell this forum about: psychosomatic pains and symptoms

[massephase]

I wanted to post this for a while, but I tend to be weary about pointing people in this direction because in my experience from real life situations, I have faced strong resistance from people when I presented them with the idea that their chronic pain, stomach issues, migraines, etc, even things like allergies and heart issues might (could!!) be psychosomatic — meaning they may be part of a psychological reaction to stressful emotions, worries and that these symptoms can be a learned behavior that can be unlearned and the symptoms can be made better or completely cured by changing your belief about them and how you view them.

I now believe that a large percentage of chronic pains (and other chronic ailments that can’t be traced to a specific physiological cause like migraines, allergic reactions, etc) fall under this category.

I have suffered from chronic, debilitating back pain myself which started abruptly when I was 16 years old. I had recently fallen in love with bodybuilding at that time and I got the pain during a set of bent over rows. So naturally I assumed there was something physically wrong with my back, because the pain occurred whenever I bent over with weights or the day after.
The pain progressively got worse to the point where I couldn’t really train at all anymore. Of course I went to doctors — several of them. MRIs were done and I was told that my spine is damaged and I will have to give up heavy lifting for the rest of my life. This was relayed to me by three sports orthopedists.

Of course I did not want to believe this, being just a teenager and lifting being something that finally gave me some sense of identity that I had lacked before. Despite all my efforts and experimentation though, I was not able to return to training on a consistent basis. I picked up running but after a while, I had to give this up due to the back pain, too.

I lived with daily, constant back pain from the age of 16 until my mid 20s, sometimes more and sometimes less severe.

It wasn’t until I came across the ideas of Dr. John Sarno and refused to believe that there is something physically wrong with me or my back that I finally was able to rid myself of the issue. This happened gradually over a couple of months.

Today, I have no back pain 98% of the time. I squat heavy, deadlift, bent over row as much as I please. The pain (or another related symptom — see the idea of the „symptom imperative“) crops up from time to time, but I never freak out about it, and I do not take it seriously. I treat it like a stress headache (which is one pain which pop culture has long accepted as psychosomatic).

So take this however you want, I just felt the obligation to write about it because I wish someone had pointed me in this direction earlier.

The linked series of talks is pretty much the best summation of this line of research/ thinking. I still listen to these periodically myself, whenever I start to have psychosomatic issues of any kind (or when I suspect some symptom might be psychosomatic — because the important thing to getting rid of psychosomatic symptoms is not taking them seriously once you determine they are psychosomatic. As soon as you focus and worry about them, they cement themselves and develop a life of their own).

 

[musclehngry]

Thank you.

 

[pimpman]

I wanted to post this for a while, but I tend to be weary about pointing people in this direction because in my experience from real life situations, I have faced strong resistance from people when I presented them with the idea that their chronic pain, stomach issues, migraines, etc, even things like allergies and heart issues might (could!!) be psychosomatic — meaning they may be part of a psychological reaction to stressful emotions, worries and that these symptoms can be a learned behavior that can be unlearned and the symptoms can be made better or completely cured by changing your belief about them and how you view them.

I now believe that a large percentage of chronic pains (and other chronic ailments that can’t be traced to a specific physiological cause like migraines, allergic reactions, etc) fall under this category.

I have suffered from chronic, debilitating back pain myself which started abruptly when I was 16 years old. I had recently fallen in love with bodybuilding at that time and I got the pain during a set of bent over rows. So naturally I assumed there was something physically wrong with my back, because the pain occurred whenever I bent over with weights or the day after.
The pain progressively got worse to the point where I couldn’t really train at all anymore. Of course I went to doctors — several of them. MRIs were done and I was told that my spine is damaged and I will have to give up heavy lifting for the rest of my life. This was relayed to me by three sports orthopedists.

Of course I did not want to believe this, being just a teenager and lifting being something that finally gave me some sense of identity that I had lacked before. Despite all my efforts and experimentation though, I was not able to return to training on a consistent basis. I picked up running but after a while, I had to give this up due to the back pain, too.

I lived with daily, constant back pain from the age of 16 until my mid 20s, sometimes more and sometimes less severe.

It wasn’t until I came across the ideas of Dr. John Sarno and refused to believe that there is something physically wrong with me or my back that I finally was able to rid myself of the issue. This happened gradually over a couple of months.

Today, I have no back pain 98% of the time. I squat heavy, deadlift, bent over row as much as I please. The pain (or another related symptom — see the idea of the „symptom imperative“) crops up from time to time, but I never freak out about it, and I do not take it seriously. I treat it like a stress headache (which is one pain which pop culture has long accepted as psychosomatic).

So take this however you want, I just felt the obligation to write about it because I wish someone had pointed me in this direction earlier.

The linked series of talks is pretty much the best summation of this line of research/ thinking. I still listen to these periodically myself, whenever I start to have psychosomatic issues of any kind (or when I suspect some symptom might be psychosomatic — because the important thing to getting rid of psychosomatic symptoms is not taking them seriously once you determine they are psychosomatic. As soon as you focus and worry about them, they cement themselves and develop a life of their own).

Thanks for sharing. But not all are related to this. I can tell you for sure my back pains which is the worst pain a human can feel. Is not this. I have 6 herniated disc on lower back. Herniated, bulging, degenerated, beginning arthritis.

I also have one on my cervical which pinches the nerve and it gives me radiating pain constantly down my left arm and my thumb fingertip is numbed.

I still train in fact if I don’t train the pain gets worse. I can’t even explain how bad my pains are. I took opioids for pain for many years and that didn’t take the pain away. I just quit cold turkey one day. And decided to live with the pain than with that poison

 

[specter]

Thanks for sharing. But not all are related to this. I can tell you for sure my back pains which is the worst pain a human can feel. Is not this. I have 6 herniated disc on lower back. Herniated, bulging, degenerated, beginning arthritis.

I also have one on my cervical which pinches the nerve and it gives me radiating pain constantly down my left arm and my thumb fingertip is numbed.

I still train in fact if I don’t train the pain gets worse. I can’t even explain how bad my pains are. I took opioids for pain for many years and that didn’t take the pain away. I just quit cold turkey one day. And decided to live with the pain than with that poison

I feel ya man, im like you but in reverse my issues is on my neck due to two car accidents, 3 disks are totally fucked 2 who are bulging and pressing on nerves and arthritis in the entire neck top to bottom then 2 disks blown out in the lower back and starting arthritis there too, last scan they told me to just say the word and they would put in titanium rods and make it stiff.

 

[pimpman]

I feel ya man, im like you but in reverse my issues is on my neck due to two car accidents, 3 disks are totally fucked 2 who are bulging and pressing on nerves and arthritis in the entire neck top to bottom then 2 disks blown out in the lower back and starting arthritis there too, last scan they told me to just say the word and they would put in titanium rods and make it stiff.

Man I know exactly how you feel. This pain we have are real and really bad. And the older we get it just gets worse. I’m 54 and if I remember you are older too right

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I wanted to post this for a while, but I tend to be weary about pointing people in this direction because in my experience from real life situations, I have faced strong resistance from people when I presented them with the idea that their chronic pain, stomach issues, migraines, etc, even things like allergies and heart issues might (could!!) be psychosomatic — meaning they may be part of a psychological reaction to stressful emotions, worries and that these symptoms can be a learned behavior that can be unlearned and the symptoms can be made better or completely cured by changing your belief about them and how you view them.

I now believe that a large percentage of chronic pains (and other chronic ailments that can’t be traced to a specific physiological cause like migraines, allergic reactions, etc) fall under this category.

I have suffered from chronic, debilitating back pain myself which started abruptly when I was 16 years old. I had recently fallen in love with bodybuilding at that time and I got the pain during a set of bent over rows. So naturally I assumed there was something physically wrong with my back, because the pain occurred whenever I bent over with weights or the day after.
The pain progressively got worse to the point where I couldn’t really train at all anymore. Of course I went to doctors — several of them. MRIs were done and I was told that my spine is damaged and I will have to give up heavy lifting for the rest of my life. This was relayed to me by three sports orthopedists.

Of course I did not want to believe this, being just a teenager and lifting being something that finally gave me some sense of identity that I had lacked before. Despite all my efforts and experimentation though, I was not able to return to training on a consistent basis. I picked up running but after a while, I had to give this up due to the back pain, too.

I lived with daily, constant back pain from the age of 16 until my mid 20s, sometimes more and sometimes less severe.

It wasn’t until I came across the ideas of Dr. John Sarno and refused to believe that there is something physically wrong with me or my back that I finally was able to rid myself of the issue. This happened gradually over a couple of months.

Today, I have no back pain 98% of the time. I squat heavy, deadlift, bent over row as much as I please. The pain (or another related symptom — see the idea of the „symptom imperative“) crops up from time to time, but I never freak out about it, and I do not take it seriously. I treat it like a stress headache (which is one pain which pop culture has long accepted as psychosomatic).

So take this however you want, I just felt the obligation to write about it because I wish someone had pointed me in this direction earlier.

The linked series of talks is pretty much the best summation of this line of research/ thinking. I still listen to these periodically myself, whenever I start to have psychosomatic issues of any kind (or when I suspect some symptom might be psychosomatic — because the important thing to getting rid of psychosomatic symptoms is not taking them seriously once you determine they are psychosomatic. As soon as you focus and worry about them, they cement themselves and develop a life of their own).

Are you saying migraines and allergies CAN or CANNOT be traced to a specific cause

 

[massephase]

Are you saying migraines and allergies CAN or CANNOT be traced to a specific cause

Neither of those. I am sure SOME migraines and immune reactions can be linked to specific physical causes

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Neither of those. I am sure SOME migraines and immune reactions can be linked to specific physical causes

The qualifier “some” would suggest you believe that the cases able to be linked to causes are the minority

 

[specter]

Man I know exactly how you feel. This pain we have are real and really bad. And the older we get it just gets worse. I’m 54 and if I remember you are older too right

Exactly, my first accident was when i was 19 got hit from behind while waiting to cross a road in my work car, second time 34 and was waiting to turn into my home driveway when a couple young girls plowed into me from behind, now im 43 and the pain is just stacking hard and wondering if i will be able to make it to 60+ without blowing out my brains, everything is a constant math equation ruling for and against doing shit..

 

[massephase]

The qualifier “some” would suggest you believe that the cases able to be linked to causes are the minority

No, then I didn’t express myself well enough. I think most cases of back pain and also common headaches fall under this category, but of course, I can not prove it.

And I do think that the mind can produce all kinds of symptoms, including immune reactions, in absence of a physical trigger or disease state.

Anyways, I am not here to debate.

I posted this for people who suffer from chronic pain symptoms and other ailments to make them aware that these issues can be psychosomatic and in this case can be cured only by addressing them via psychology.

 

[buck]

I absolutely believe that mental issues can drive physical pain. Especially the more one thinks about it. The brain is tough to deal with. And physical injuries can drive pain as well.
In 1977 i was a dumbass 17 year old kid trying to do a 700 pound leg press injured my back and have issues on and off since then. A few car accident were cars were totaled out didn't help nor did decades of heavy lifting and other lifestyle choices. I have been diagnosed with bulged, herniated and collapsed discs, grade 3 spondylolisthesis, stenosis arthritis and tendonitis. A couple disc in my neck are gone and they are bone on bone last i checked 15 years ago. Probably some what worse these days. The last MRI 7 years ago showed every disc i have from the end of my thoracic into my sacroiliac are bulged or herniated. Pretty sure the mid back is not that great either. Yet even with all that not much pain really. Nothing where i missed work or a day at the gym. Neve had any scripted pain meds or rarely take an NSAID. A couple times a year if things get bad enough i take 1 10mg Cyclobenzaprine and things are easy enough to deal with.
The human body is a weird thing. Some people have pain with no known causes and others can have what should be real issues yet are fine.
Trying to come up with a unemotional/unbiased prognosis can be tough.
I always recommend a good spots med ortho surgeon, which can be hard to find sometimes.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Anyways, I am not here to debate.

If you view me asking you two(2) questions to clarify your initial statement so I can understand your POV on the matter as debate……

 

[massephase]

If you view me asking you two(2) questions to clarify your initial statement so I can understand your POV on the matter as debate……

View attachment 248817

It’s all good mate no worries

 

[SouthernMuscle]

 

[SouthernMuscle]

I had to

 

[pimpman]

Exactly, my first accident was when i was 19 got hit from behind while waiting to cross a road in my work car, second time 34 and was waiting to turn into my home driveway when a couple young girls plowed into me from behind, now im 43 and the pain is just stacking hard and wondering if i will be able to make it to 60+ without blowing out my brains, everything is a constant math equation ruling for and against doing shit..

Jesus every hit is from behind. I be rich here in the states if that happened lol.

No seriously I can imagine the pain because I’m the same. But you will make it to 60 technology is growing fast. I’m hoping in the next 5 years they come up with something to help our situation.

And thank god the hits have been from behind. I would hate that to happen in the front. I think it be worse

 

[specter]

Jesus every hit is from behind. I be rich here in the states if that happened lol.

No seriously I can imagine the pain because I’m the same. But you will make it to 60 technology is growing fast. I’m hoping in the next 5 years they come up with something to help our situation.

And thank god the hits have been from behind. I would hate that to happen in the front. I think it be worse

Yeah it sucks ass, worst shit is thats not even all, got a bad moped accident wich was my own fault and 2 work place accidents one where i got a small piece my skull chipped of in the front, so yeah got it pretty bad but i try to get the best out of life.

 

[pimpman]

Yeah it sucks ass, worst shit is thats not even all, got a bad moped accident wich was my own fault and 2 work place accidents one where i got a small piece my skull chipped of in the front, so yeah got it pretty bad but i try to get the best out of life.

Man if I tell you all my accidents you like everyone else that knows them. Would say how the hell im still alive. From car accidents worse one was the one I hit a tree head on at about 80mph my truck was total loss. And air bags didn’t deploy. Not my fault either got hit by another truck. I got gun shot to stomach when I was 17. I did have an out of body experience and saw my body laying in hospital bed and seeing and hearing the doctors working on me. I was praying god don’t let me die I’m too young and next thing you know I wake up in my body to what I was seeing and doctors telling me I had to go into emergency surgery. Doctor said he can’t believe I survived. That one in a million would survive that surgery and that I was that one. And he points up as he tells me someone up there loves you. I freaked out and busted into goosebumps remembering me praying not to let me die.

Yea I got some crazy stuff. My mom rest in peace wanted to get an abortion when she was pregnant with me. This was back in my country I was born in Cuba. Back in that time they use to use a spoon type thing and they go in and scoop the baby out. The doctor told her not to do it she was a few months in and I was fully developed baby already. She said she wanted it done anyways. So after a few hours when she woke up and asked the doctor if that was it all done. He said nope we tried but we couldn’t scoop him. He kept moving around and there was no way we can get him. And we couldn’t keep you under anesthesia more longer. So I survived life. That was the first one. Had a few more survivals after that and then the gun one and the head on was the last one.

Yea bro I’m a walking breathing miracle. Praise God

 

[specter]

Man if I tell you all my accidents you like everyone else that knows them. Would say how the hell im still alive. From car accidents worse one was the one I hit a tree head on at about 80mph my truck was total loss. And air bags didn’t deploy. Not my fault either got hit by another truck. I got gun shot to stomach when I was 17. I did have an out of body experience and saw my body laying in hospital bed and seeing and hearing the doctors working on me. I was praying god don’t let me die I’m too young and next thing you know I wake up in my body to what I was seeing and doctors telling me I had to go into emergency surgery. Doctor said he can’t believe I survived. That one in a million would survive that surgery and that I was that one. And he points up as he tells me someone up there loves you. I freaked out and busted into goosebumps remembering me praying not to let me die.

Yea I got some crazy stuff. My mom rest in peace wanted to get an abortion when she was pregnant with me. This was back in my country I was born in Cuba. Back in that time they use to use a spoon type thing and they go in and scoop the baby out. The doctor told her not to do it she was a few months in and I was fully developed baby already. She said she wanted it done anyways. So after a few hours when she woke up and asked the doctor if that was it all done. He said nope we tried but we couldn’t scoop him. He kept moving around and there was no way we can get him. And we couldn’t keep you under anesthesia more longer. So I survived life. That was the first one. Had a few more survivals after that and then the gun one and the head on was the last one.

Yea bro I’m a walking breathing miracle. Praise God

Haha i hear ya man, my doctor says im like weeds really hard to kill

 

[LK3]

while i 100% agree our mind and emotion can have major effects on pain and there are all sorts of examples around the world and throughout history of people who have learned to manage pain. being pain free regularly with just thought control in normal or stressful life style seems unlikely.

i do my best to not use pain much, honestly i would like to use them more but access where i live, really there isnt. i dont remember what it is to be pain free. i think it is just part of life.