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something ive noticed about the pros....

what is that thing in the picture dante? and any estimate as to what the massage/art would run someone a month in cost? not sure what they charge and how often it needs to be done to see noticable size.
 
Here to get deep tissue/ fascia release is 70.00-120.00 per session. sessions are about 1 hr in length depending on how much you get done. Ive had it done to my quads, and also my pecs. it hurts like a muthafuka! Its only effective if you can get it done regularly. Hitting up a chiropractor every other week or if you can afford it weekly who does ART is well worth the money. Mainevent is a chiro, maybe he can chime in and give us some info?

Lucian
 
My old training partner was talking about this one year before the Pittsburgh show we were about to go to that year. We talked about how we never seen any black and blue marks or even any really big lumps for that matter....sure enough...we get there and Titus has some nace black and blue marks on his rear delts. Now I know I used to get some black and blue marks from heavy flat benching from the bench but these looked a little different from what I always got...and mine were a bit lower....I talked to Titus for a good hour that night but Never asked him about the marks. But I can honestly say that was the only time I really ever noticed anything on a pro before.

Now..as far as the deep tissue massages...I agree 100% that they do wonders....I started about 8 weeks out from the last show I did and it helped me more then anything else I was doing at the time. Changed the way my delts and arms looked all together IMO....and my training partner at the time O as well. I kept with them for a few months after that show each week..sometimes twice a week untill the lady who was doing them at our gym quit and went else where. I'm glad we talked about this because I kinda forgot all about it till just now...I'm def. going to look into my area for someone who really knows what they are doing to see what kinda " luck" I have now with it.
 
Here to get deep tissue/ fascia release is 70.00-120.00 per session. sessions are about 1 hr in length depending on how much you get done. Ive had it done to my quads, and also my pecs. it hurts like a muthafuka! Its only effective if you can get it done regularly. Hitting up a chiropractor every other week or if you can afford it weekly who does ART is well worth the money. Mainevent is a chiro, maybe he can chime in and give us some info?

Lucian

I'm not sure what the current prices are now around here....everything has went up tho lol...But it used to be a little cheaper... around 60-100 bucks per hour! So I'm guessing 70-120 isnt to far off the prices around here now a days :(
 
I believe some may be using a water based product for site injections, one ingredient is Carageenan. I dont like to say things unless I know first hand or seen it myself, but a guy I know was shown where and how to do it. A top pro showed him, apparently used a 20 or 30cc bottle right then and there.
 
Is this waterbased product used for fascia stretching/permanent growth...or right before a show for localised inflammation?
 
what is that thing in the picture dante? and any estimate as to what the massage/art would run someone a month in cost? not sure what they charge and how often it needs to be done to see noticable size.

thats the muscletrac device

Like I said...maybe he is site injecting but 4 bruises in a row (one top)(one light one in the middle)(one that looks below the bicep)(one in the crook of the arm) on his front arm and then one really really large one on the brach and tricep (side arm)....either worst site injector ever or someone is using a muscletrac or tool on him deep tissue wise.


"
Jay Cutler gets beat up: it happens regularly and he likes it

When most of us think of a massage, we envision warm oil and a tender touch--a soothing sensual experience. Jay Cutler has a different idea. For him, a massage is an adventure in pain that frequently leaves him battered and bruised. Welcome to the vanguard of sports massage, where muscles are crunched, prodded and scraped for nearly two hours straight, all to enhance flexibility and boost recovery and growth.

ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER | When he lived in Southern California, Cutler received neuromuscular massages from Steve Murphy, who has subsequently worked with such champs as Melvin Anthony. After moving to Las Vegas, Cutler went through two massage therapists. Just after this year's Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, a friend recommended Angel Avalos, an expert in the latest deep-tissue techniques. Avalos, who has been a massage therapist for eight years, has a background in bodybuilding. Still, she was unprepared for the sight of the three-time Arnold Classic winner striding from his Hummer to her office at Integrated Healthcare of Nevada.

Avalos jokes that she nearly ran out the back door. "But it went great," she recalls. "As soon as I put my hands on him, I realized this was a very unique individual in terms of his musculature and the health of his tissue. He's an amazing athlete. I saw a challenge, and I was ready to take it. I feel honored to be part of what he's doing and hopefully help him win the Mr. Olympia."

Cutler remembers his first day with Avalos. "I went home and [my wife] Kerry said, 'What happened to you?' She couldn't believe the damage. I was black and blue, but I loved it."


PAINFUL BREAKUPS | The key objective of the twice weekly 90- to 120-minute massages is to break up scar tissue that develops as a reaction to weight training. These adhesions limit the muscles' range of motion and consequently restrict growth. Much of Avalos' work is done with smooth scrapers. These tools are key components in the Graston-Hall Method--an intense massage technique recently approved for usage without a doctor's supervision.

"This is a pressure bar," Avalos says, as she digs a tool resembling a mini-dumbbell into Cutler's inner back. "The bar can get in a lot deeper, and I can hold the pressure for a lot longer than I could with my fingers. It allows me to really sink in there, like right here how I'm getting up underneath his traps. I'm also using two hands [to apply] pressure. Initially, I try to loosen the layers from superficial to deep [levels], starting with his traps. Now they're loose, so I can sneak up underneath and get to his rhomboids and serratus."

Cutler doesn't make a sound. When I ask how it feels, he answers, "It hurts, brother."

"He has such a high threshold for pain," Avalos says. "He's really good about relaxing. With massage, if the person is tensing throughout the treatment, it's defeating the purpose. As you're trying to work on one muscle, other muscles are spasming. From his experience with deep-tissue massage and, of course, working out the way he does, he's actually able to lay there and relax and let me do the work I need to do without tensing up on me." Then she adds with a laugh, "But then he tells me later how much it hurt."

Avalos scrapes with the smooth Graston-Hall bars and Cutler's back grows progressively redder as more and more blood (and its nutrients) flows into the area. The tools vibrate as she rubs them over scar tissue, so she knows just where to focus most. "What I'm doing is going with the direction of his muscle fibers to break down the cross-fibers that have been laid down from his workouts. The cross-fibers are your body's way of coping with workout stress, and they limit flexibility and growth," Avalos explains.

DEEP DISH | "If you're an active bodybuilder, you want to get a deep-tissue massage at least on occasion to tear down the scar tissue and keep the muscles pliable," she adds. "You probably won't be able to go to the extent Jay does at first, but massage is very beneficial for anyone."

"This kind of massage is almost like a workout," Cutler says as Avalos digs into his pectorals. "She's basically beating my whole body up, and I have to recover from it. To me, if it hurts, that means it's working. When I go into the gym, if I don't feel some sort of pain or burn, that means I'm not working hard enough. It's the same thing in here." As Avalos' fingertips disappear into Cutler's chest, he winces. "See, now that doesn't feel good at all. It hurts like hell, but it works wonders."


and


Again, atrophy of the muscle will result, as it is no longer receiving the proper signals, or stimulus, from the central nervous system and therefore not being properly stimulated during training. In Jay's case, we originally thought that disk compression in his spine was causing the atrophy in his right arm and leg.

As time went on, we discovered that the nerve impingement was actually the result of excessive scar tissue accumulation in those areas. Oddly, in his leg, it turned out to be his hamstring that was to blame. Once the scar tissue had been broken up, we saw improvements in his hamstring separation and fullness, but the real surprise was when the right quadriceps began to grow again, regaining the former size it had displayed several years ago. The scar tissue was broken up by deep-tissue work, but of a type far more aggressive and invasive than what your neighborhood massage therapist would be capable of.

Essentially, the hamstring almost had to be torn again to free up the bound muscle and nerves. Twice a week on average, a therapist would work on the area with elbows as well as a tool resembling a blunt spoon, digging down deep and stripping the muscle from the scar tissue and adhesions. Jay reports that the pain was excruciating, and in photos he sent me he typically had bruises all over his body that made it look like he'd been beaten with baseball bats like the scene in "Casino."
 
Last edited:
Is this waterbased product used for fascia stretching/permanent growth...or right before a show for localised inflammation?


**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

Notice how Cutlers arms dont move much, no pop to them, they look the same flexed and non flexed. He's gone overboard on the site injections IMHO.
 
Regardless what caused it in the vid, he clearly has something in his biceps because they "flex" rather weird and have been doing so for quite some years.
 
I used to get massages 3X a week. The results are phenomenal IF you find the right therapist. Luckily for me, my buddy who has nerve damage from his car wreck went through about 50 of them and found the good ones.

Most therapists do not want to use up their hands as it shortens there careers. Buyer be ware. If it doesn't kill, it's not doing anything. I even let this gay Romanian guy who beleives in Witchcraft do work on me since he is the best.

You have to do a lot of stretching on your own, but it can get very time consuming.
 
I have know idea about synthol but as a massage therapist, certified in trigger point and trained in deep tissue. If you have a therapist that bruises you significantly then they are horrible at what they do. Find another.

I'm certified here in the UK for sports massage including what you listed and I agree.

If a therapist is bruising you, their applying some serious pressure.

But we have to think that these guys (bodybuilders) are using their muscles moreso than the average person and also using their muscle for IM injections.
 

Ahhh... Makes me cringe thinking of having my hamstrings done like that. Always full of trigger points and adhesions.

Dante, what are those dark coloured spots on his hams?

thats the muscletrac device

Like I said...maybe he is site injecting but 4 bruises in a row (one top)(one light one in the middle)(one that looks below the bicep)(one in the crook of the arm) on his front arm and then one really really large one on the brach and tricep (side arm)....either worst site injector ever or someone is using a muscletrac or tool on him deep tissue wise.


"
Jay Cutler gets beat up: it happens regularly and he likes it

When most of us think of a massage, we envision warm oil and a tender touch--a soothing sensual experience. Jay Cutler has a different idea. For him, a massage is an adventure in pain that frequently leaves him battered and bruised. Welcome to the vanguard of sports massage, where muscles are crunched, prodded and scraped for nearly two hours straight, all to enhance flexibility and boost recovery and growth.

ANGEL ON MY SHOULDER | When he lived in Southern California, Cutler received neuromuscular massages from Steve Murphy, who has subsequently worked with such champs as Melvin Anthony. After moving to Las Vegas, Cutler went through two massage therapists. Just after this year's Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic, a friend recommended Angel Avalos, an expert in the latest deep-tissue techniques. Avalos, who has been a massage therapist for eight years, has a background in bodybuilding. Still, she was unprepared for the sight of the three-time Arnold Classic winner striding from his Hummer to her office at Integrated Healthcare of Nevada.

Avalos jokes that she nearly ran out the back door. "But it went great," she recalls. "As soon as I put my hands on him, I realized this was a very unique individual in terms of his musculature and the health of his tissue. He's an amazing athlete. I saw a challenge, and I was ready to take it. I feel honored to be part of what he's doing and hopefully help him win the Mr. Olympia."

Cutler remembers his first day with Avalos. "I went home and [my wife] Kerry said, 'What happened to you?' She couldn't believe the damage. I was black and blue, but I loved it."


PAINFUL BREAKUPS | The key objective of the twice weekly 90- to 120-minute massages is to break up scar tissue that develops as a reaction to weight training. These adhesions limit the muscles' range of motion and consequently restrict growth. Much of Avalos' work is done with smooth scrapers. These tools are key components in the Graston-Hall Method--an intense massage technique recently approved for usage without a doctor's supervision.

"This is a pressure bar," Avalos says, as she digs a tool resembling a mini-dumbbell into Cutler's inner back. "The bar can get in a lot deeper, and I can hold the pressure for a lot longer than I could with my fingers. It allows me to really sink in there, like right here how I'm getting up underneath his traps. I'm also using two hands [to apply] pressure. Initially, I try to loosen the layers from superficial to deep [levels], starting with his traps. Now they're loose, so I can sneak up underneath and get to his rhomboids and serratus."

Cutler doesn't make a sound. When I ask how it feels, he answers, "It hurts, brother."

"He has such a high threshold for pain," Avalos says. "He's really good about relaxing. With massage, if the person is tensing throughout the treatment, it's defeating the purpose. As you're trying to work on one muscle, other muscles are spasming. From his experience with deep-tissue massage and, of course, working out the way he does, he's actually able to lay there and relax and let me do the work I need to do without tensing up on me." Then she adds with a laugh, "But then he tells me later how much it hurt."

Avalos scrapes with the smooth Graston-Hall bars and Cutler's back grows progressively redder as more and more blood (and its nutrients) flows into the area. The tools vibrate as she rubs them over scar tissue, so she knows just where to focus most. "What I'm doing is going with the direction of his muscle fibers to break down the cross-fibers that have been laid down from his workouts. The cross-fibers are your body's way of coping with workout stress, and they limit flexibility and growth," Avalos explains.

DEEP DISH | "If you're an active bodybuilder, you want to get a deep-tissue massage at least on occasion to tear down the scar tissue and keep the muscles pliable," she adds. "You probably won't be able to go to the extent Jay does at first, but massage is very beneficial for anyone."

"This kind of massage is almost like a workout," Cutler says as Avalos digs into his pectorals. "She's basically beating my whole body up, and I have to recover from it. To me, if it hurts, that means it's working. When I go into the gym, if I don't feel some sort of pain or burn, that means I'm not working hard enough. It's the same thing in here." As Avalos' fingertips disappear into Cutler's chest, he winces. "See, now that doesn't feel good at all. It hurts like hell, but it works wonders."


and


Again, atrophy of the muscle will result, as it is no longer receiving the proper signals, or stimulus, from the central nervous system and therefore not being properly stimulated during training. In Jay's case, we originally thought that disk compression in his spine was causing the atrophy in his right arm and leg.

As time went on, we discovered that the nerve impingement was actually the result of excessive scar tissue accumulation in those areas. Oddly, in his leg, it turned out to be his hamstring that was to blame. Once the scar tissue had been broken up, we saw improvements in his hamstring separation and fullness, but the real surprise was when the right quadriceps began to grow again, regaining the former size it had displayed several years ago. The scar tissue was broken up by deep-tissue work, but of a type far more aggressive and invasive than what your neighborhood massage therapist would be capable of.

Essentially, the hamstring almost had to be torn again to free up the bound muscle and nerves. Twice a week on average, a therapist would work on the area with elbows as well as a tool resembling a blunt spoon, digging down deep and stripping the muscle from the scar tissue and adhesions. Jay reports that the pain was excruciating, and in photos he sent me he typically had bruises all over his body that made it look like he'd been beaten with baseball bats like the scene in "Casino."

Just as I thought, likes the pain. Which isnt 'normal', but more pressure = more risk of bruising. Brusing isnt a good thing at all though.

The idea is to remove trigger points, adhesions increasing the muscle's efficiancy and increase blood flow to the lymphatic system (remove toxins). Which is why massaging is done TOWARDS the heart, bar the back (although should be).

I'll say one thing, when you have had a good 120minute massage on a number of areas, nothing will make you feel more revitalised, its like walking out of the therapy as a new man!
 
what is that thing in the picture dante? and any estimate as to what the massage/art would run someone a month in cost? not sure what they charge and how often it needs to be done to see noticable size.

I had my second session of ART therapy for a shoulder injury this morning. But even once healed i am going to continue with 1 hour session per month as a maintenance. I have seen significant improvement in just 2 sessions and most others i speak with do as well...He charges $100 per hour...but I offered to pay for 6 sessions in advance and he cut me a deal of $75 per hour instead.

I did a lot of research too when deciding on who to use and he came strongly recommended from a friend who plays for the bucs. He works with the Bucs and the Yankees when they are in town for spring training so he specializes in athletes and is ART certified therapist.
 
Ahhh... Makes me cringe thinking of having my hamstrings done like that. Always full of trigger points and adhesions.

Dante, what are those dark coloured spots on his hams?

Looks like remnants of pro tan to me....needs some exfoliating...LOL
 
Pheedno and Swifto......question

Why do you get so incredibly dehydrated after deep tissue massage? Does the human body raise temperature and try to rid itself of toxins thru sweating/urination? I find myself constantly trying to hydrate the rest of the day (and I am a guy who takes in alot of fluid a day regularly) but I almost have to double it after deep tissue massage.
 
Pheedno and Swifto......question

Why do you get so incredibly dehydrated after deep tissue massage? Does the human body raise temperature and try to rid itself of toxins thru sweating/urination? I find myself constantly trying to hydrate the rest of the day (and I am a guy who takes in alot of fluid a day regularly) but I almost have to double it after deep tissue massage.

I get very dizzy for a little while afterward too. Is that normal? Then i feel dehydrated all day. I get about 1 1/2 gallons in every single day, sometimes more, but in thirsty and hungry all day after a message session.
 
It's most likely your body's response to all the garbage released from the deep tissue therapy. My best guess anyway. I would assume no matter how much you hydrate regularly, that your body would need the extra fluid to flush the toxins.

Pheedno and Swifto......question

Why do you get so incredibly dehydrated after deep tissue massage? Does the human body raise temperature and try to rid itself of toxins thru sweating/urination? I find myself constantly trying to hydrate the rest of the day (and I am a guy who takes in alot of fluid a day regularly) but I almost have to double it after deep tissue massage.
 
I have seen SEO lumps on a few occasions. Most notably was at a state show.. I was in the audience and so was a heavyweight competitor about 6 weeks out from Nationals. Out of respect for him I will not mention his name, so dont bother asking but.. he is a pro now:cool: . Anyways... the lumps on his biceps were unreal.. they peaked outward while he was siitting down, relaxing his arms.. very unnatural looking but to each their own..
 

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