Soy protein and Testosterone

[epoxy]

I had been under the impression for a while that soy protein was implicated in raising estrogen levels in men and or decreasing testosterone levels. I was looking at a meal replacement company called MacroFuel recently that uses purely soy protein in their MRP and saw they had posted a study claiming these estrogen raising/testosterone lowering posts were a myth and in fact soy protein does not have any indication of doing these things. I wanted to see what other people thought, if there were other studies that refute this, and if there is any "benefit" to the addition of soy protein into ones diet alongside animal protein. Curiosity has sparked my interest as I have never been one to consume soy protein, and I wanted to find out more.

Here's the study:
Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[aintitgrand]

I had been under the impression for a while that soy protein was implicated in raising estrogen levels in men and or decreasing testosterone levels. I was looking at a meal replacement company called MacroFuel recently that uses purely soy protein in their MRP and saw they had posted a study claiming these estrogen raising/testosterone lowering posts were a myth and in fact soy protein does not have any indication of doing these things. I wanted to see what other people thought, if there were other studies that refute this, and if there is any "benefit" to the addition of soy protein into ones diet alongside animal protein. Curiosity has sparked my interest as I have never been one to consume soy protein, and I wanted to find out more.

Here's the study:
Soybean isoflavone exposure does not have feminizing effects on men: a critical examination of the clinical evidence. - PubMed - NCBI

Even if it doesn't raise estrogen levels to any measurable degree, soy protein is still a shitty, incomplete, cheap source of protein. You're better off using hemp/brown rice/vegan proteins sourced from grains than soy, if you're dead set on using non-animal sourced protein powders.

 

[epoxy]

Even if it doesn't raise estrogen levels to any measurable degree, soy protein is still a shitty, incomplete, cheap source of protein. You're better off using hemp/brown rice/vegan proteins sourced from grains than soy, if you're dead set on using non-animal sourced protein powders.

Definitely not something that I'm dead set on, just a curiosity.

 

[NGL34]

I've heard that plant based estrogen attaches to estrogen receptors just like any SERM eg. Nolvadex. So that your stronger endogenous estrogen can no longer become active. I don't know how much truth there is to this, so take it with a grain of salt.

I know DIM has become very popular as of recent and it lower estrogen and I believe it also contains estrogen.

 

[Protein719]

Even if it doesn't raise estrogen levels to any measurable degree, soy protein is still a shitty, incomplete, cheap source of protein. You're better off using hemp/brown rice/vegan proteins sourced from grains than soy, if you're dead set on using non-animal sourced protein powders.

You sure soy is incomplete protein?

 

[nothuman]

Soy protein is a marketing gimmick. I would stay away

 

[FrancisK]

Obviously you would consider other research before that from a company trying to sell you its product but regardless I don't see any reason soy would have an advantage to other types even if it didn't have those questions. So basically why would you choose it anyway? Even if I were a vegan I would stay away from soy just for the fact that it may be gmo even if it's claimed not to be.

 

[frink71]

Well it tastes like vile shit, so it's got that going for it

 

[Taylor Millerrr]

Soy contains these compounds called isoflavones (genistein, daidzein and glycitein) which act as phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) in the human body. They’re structurally similar to the principal female hormone, estrogen, and are believed to have similar effects in the body.
Anyhow, you should probably avoid soy if you’re a man. It’s not good for us, and it tastes bad.

 

[aintitgrand]

You sure soy is incomplete protein?

Here's the amino acid breakdown of soy vs whey. There's also a comparison between other sources of protein: PROTEIN DEBATE: Which Protein Is Best? | Hammer Nutrition

I say either stick to whey, or choose a well rounded vegan protein sourced from multiple plant sources (brown rice, quinoa, amaranth, millet, pumpkin seed). Leave soy and peas out of it. Although there is a vegan protein I like best which has yellow pea in it, but it also has brown rice, quinoa, and cranberry seed in it. Just make sure the amino acid profile matches as closely to whey/animal protein as possible. That way you know you're getting a quality product.

 

[OutToLunch]

So Bruce Jenner and the like should start consuming soy products several years before their complete change so as to prime their bodies for optimal female transformation. Lol
Great marketing opportunity for the transgender community.

 

[gotgame]

I use soy milk all the time for my protein shakes and when I have cereal. Stop over thinking things. I like the texture and taste more then unflavored almond or coconut .

 

[kingpeon]

Soy is typically a GMO and high in aluminum due to the manufacturing process. Unfermented GMO soy is a poison plain and simple.

Some companies advocate using soy isolate for the high glutamine content but there are better choices.

 

[chainheart]

I've heard that plant based estrogen attaches to estrogen receptors just like any SERM eg. Nolvadex. So that your stronger endogenous estrogen can no longer become active. I don't know how much truth there is to this, so take it with a grain of salt.

I know DIM has become very popular as of recent and it lower estrogen and I believe it also contains estrogen.

you would have to eat a ton of cabbage, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, rutabaga, and turnips for the DIM to have any real effect on your estradiol levels.

you can put all the gear you can afford in your body, but if you don’t have androgen receptors for them to bind to - they float around till eliminated. your gear must locate then dock with available androgen receptors or you won't build muscle mass.

Here's what i'm talking about...

never understood why so many don't care to invest in or even study the purpose behind an AI (aromatase inhibitor). elevated estradiol competes with testosterone at the androgen receptors. the estradiol docking in those receptors block testosterone from activating the receptor - nothing happens. it lowers your free testosterone. the free T is the testosterone in the blood that is available to bind to receptors in the brain, muscle, and other organs of the body. an AI such as Aromasin /exmestane, Arimidex/anastrozole or Femara/letrozole halts the loss of testosterone to conversion then lowers your estradiol. this frees the androgen receptors for your testosterone. NOT talking about SERMS (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) such as Nolvadex/tamoxifen citrate or Clomid, i'm discussing aromatase inhibitors.

one reason we say get lean and work your body to it's highest natural potential before starting anabolic steroids is that estradiol is a nightmare when body fat is too high. no matter how much testosterone you inject it isn't being distributed as it should because too many of your androgen receptors are blocked. your free testosterone is going nowhere because it has no where to go. inject high doses of testosterone, however because of high BF this is made worse converting into more estradiol and that's known as aromatase. guys LOSE THE BF BEFORE injecting rather than injecting to lose BF.

want more androgen receptors for T to dock with...

resistance training activates androgen receptors. l-carnitine-L-Tartrate transports lipids (fat) into the cellular mitochondria to be used as energy - androgen receptor activity within those same cells is increased. eat salmon, take your fish oils and use pure virgin olive oil when you can. i also recall reading Synthetine increases number of androgen receptors.

i would look into who is behind soy vs whey protein studies. 91 percent of soy grown in the U.S. is a GMO — a genetically-modified organism. soy is genetically-engineered to resist death and decay from Monsanto’s toxic herbicide Roundup, with which it’s heavily sprayed. when choosing between post workout protein i'd take five traumatic minutes eating a dixie loaf sandwich over soy.

Post not intended to be condescending of dixie loaf sandwich eaters.

 

[chainheart]

I had been under the impression for a while that soy protein was implicated in raising estrogen levels in men and or decreasing testosterone levels. I was looking at a meal replacement company called MacroFuel recently that uses purely soy protein in their MRP and saw they had posted a study claiming these estrogen raising/testosterone lowering posts were a myth and in fact soy protein does not have any indication of doing these things. I wanted to see what other people thought, if there were other studies that refute this, and if there is any "benefit" to the addition of soy protein into ones diet alongside animal protein.

brother epoxy if you get curious again forget the soy marketing and have a dixie loaf sandwich on me.

"Often referred to as estrogen-mimickers or xenoestrogens, these “mimic” the effects of true estrogen, linking to receptor sites. It’s not only natural-health-gurus who say this is a bad idea. Scientific American confirms that certain pesticides, industrial by-products and other compounds added to foods can interact with the same receptor molecules inside the body that estrogen can and alter hormones."

**broken link removed**

"All soybean producers pay a mandatory assessment of one-half to one percent of the net market price of soybeans. The total – something like $80 million annually – supports United Soybean's program to "strengthen the position of soybeans in the marketplace and maintain and expand domestic and foreign markets for uses for soybeans and soybean products.” "

State soybean councils from Maryland, Nebraska, Delaware, Arkansas, Virginia, North Dakota, and Michigan provide another $2.5 million for research.

Published in the Wall Street Journal, October 27, 1995, private companies like Archer Daniels Midland also contribute their share. ADM spent $4.7 million for advertising on Meet the Press and $4.3 million on Face the Nation during the course of a year.

"soy may interfere with the function of the thyroid. Thirty-seven Japanese test subjects were given 30 grams of soybeans for 3 months and showed an increase in the marker for impaired thyroid function. Symptoms included malaise, constipation, sleepiness and thyroid enlargement. All symptoms disappeared after the subjects stopped eating soy. "


Post not intended to save the world from this GMO product

 

[biffnbash]

Soy is typically a GMO and high in aluminum due to the manufacturing process. Unfermented GMO soy is a poison plain and simple.

Some companies advocate using soy isolate for the high glutamine content but there are better choices.

I use soy a bit as a protein source...but then again I don't live in the US and have to eat that shit. Sad what is called food today...

 

[Smack]

I've heard of guys start pounding soy and notice itchy nipples, stop and the E2 symptoms go away... May just be that some are sensitive but I just naturally opt for whey.

Also been using a hydrolyzed beef protein that I kinda like - needs to be blended though. Shaking will be grainy

 

[OutToLunch]

I call it Bs....