SPERM!!!!!

[Fullybuilt]

Ok, i've posted before on here about how i'd like to try and recover after being on for about 16months from everything to Tren to test to hgh to eq,etc...(have been on 500iu hcg 2x per week from the start though) I have a feeling i'll never recover, especially now since I can't get HMG or Lupron anywhere, so I have a ? I'd love to stay on 125-150mg cyp for an HRT dose. I'd love to keep my test levels in the high/normal range and have no problem staying on HRT forever. The only problem is i'd like to have kids about 8years down the road. Im going to get a sperm count checked and see how healthy the sperm is. My ? is, is it necassary to run a pct like clomid/nolva and wait till I recover before I get my sperm checked, b/c even if i don't recover im sure i'll still have some sperm left. I know its not good to get sperm tested while on a big cycle, but should I just stay on my HRT dose with hcg for a few months and get tested? Maybe run a clomid cycle while on HRT to stimulate the sperm first? That way if I have a sperm count then, then i'll be ok staying on hrt right? Or do I need to wait and attempt to fully recover before i'd know? Thanks
__________________

 

[The Wolf]

Check out my posts on the counselling forum bro, I hope you dont go through what I am.

 

[Fullybuilt]

Check out my posts on the counselling forum bro, I hope you dont go through what I am.

Im pretty sure low fsh levels mean low sperm count. Thats pretty normal to have low fsh levels during a cycle and during pct. Were you on AAS when you got tested? If not, how long were you off and what did you do for pct?

 

[casper78]

have you ever been checked for low sperm count?

if not i would not sweat it. i have been pretty consistant with using gear for the past 4 years and when my wife and i decided to try for a baby we got preg in a month and i was a week into a heavy test cycle. baby was born 5 weeks ago perfectly healthy. so as far as gear messing with your fertility? i think its hear say. good luck bro

 

[massmonster32]

I am a zero in the spermo dept my test revealed nada nix nay big fat zero. I have a child from before when first started older now but got off for a few months 3 I believe clomid hcg. But I like the zero the wife doesnt just bring the nephews and neighbors kids over and you will like having your freedom. MM

 

[Ethan James]

Ok, i've posted before on here about how i'd like to try and recover after being on for about 16months from everything to Tren to test to hgh to eq,etc...(have been on 500iu hcg 2x per week from the start though) I have a feeling i'll never recover, especially now since I can't get HMG or Lupron anywhere, so I have a ? I'd love to stay on 125-150mg cyp for an HRT dose. I'd love to keep my test levels in the high/normal range and have no problem staying on HRT forever. The only problem is i'd like to have kids about 8years down the road. Im going to get a sperm count checked and see how healthy the sperm is. My ? is, is it necassary to run a pct like clomid/nolva and wait till I recover before I get my sperm checked, b/c even if i don't recover im sure i'll still have some sperm left. I know its not good to get sperm tested while on a big cycle, but should I just stay on my HRT dose with hcg for a few months and get tested? Maybe run a clomid cycle while on HRT to stimulate the sperm first? That way if I have a sperm count then, then i'll be ok staying on hrt right? Or do I need to wait and attempt to fully recover before i'd know? Thanks
__________________

If you remain on HRT, your Sertoli cells won't recover. If the Sertoli cells are able to recover, it could take up to two years to fully recover. My advice is get off of all and I mean all juice for 6 months. Then go get your count tested. By then you should know if you are able to produce sperm at all.

Check out the thread below, especially the long post by "Reload"
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11175

 

[Fullybuilt]

If you remain on HRT, your Sertoli cells won't recover. If the Sertoli cells are able to recover, it could take up to two years to fully recover. My advice is get off of all and I mean all juice for 6 months. Then go get your count tested. By then you should know if you are able to produce sperm at all.

Check out the thread below, especially the long post by "Reload"
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11175

Ok so my odds of a higher sperm count are better after I get off AAS and do a PCT, even though I may not recover and have low test, my odds are still better than if I stayed on an HRT dose with hcg?

 

[finephysique]

This is the only thing that really worries me about AS use, will I be able to give the world some mini-me's, my doctor has said it should not be a problem as I have never used for longer than 16 weeks and always take regular breaks of8 weeks with proper PCT but it still always is there in the back of my mind

 

[Ethan James]

Ok so my odds of a higher sperm count are better after I get off AAS and do a PCT, even though I may not recover and have low test, my odds are still better than if I stayed on an HRT dose with hcg?

Yes. HRT will continue to suppress the function of the Sertoli cells (where spermatogenisis takes place).

If you want kids, this is my suggestion; Don't do extended cycles, even a "maintenance dose" will continue to atrophy your sertoli cells. If you're currently on an extended cycle, get off and use hcg and clomid only for pct. Only use hcg for a couple of weeks after. Extended hcg use will further suppress your Leydig and Sertoli cells. Then spend 6 mos to a year completely clean from AAS, after which have your sperm count checked. If it's good to go, you can get back on AAS, but again, don't do extended cycles. I think normal sperm count is 20million per ml. If it's not at that mark, my reccomendation is to still refrain from AAS use until your sperm count completely recovers, which may take another year after that.

 

[The Wolf]

Im pretty sure low fsh levels mean low sperm count. Thats pretty normal to have low fsh levels during a cycle and during pct. Were you on AAS when you got tested? If not, how long were you off and what did you do for pct?

Firstly bro, FSH means Follicle-stimulating hormone. I understand that if that was high then I would have no chance of being a daddy as that would have been tectiscular failure, at least it being low means that there is hope. However my sperm count in my semen was zero so that means no sperm count at all (Azoospermia). I was off the gear for a about a month and a half ago, I was on heavy androgens Dianobol and I was taking Deca and Test as well. I was expecting my Sperm count to be low but I wasnt expecting it to be zero.

I was convinced that this had nothing to do with the steroids and there was maybe a blockage in my plumbings, however after my blood test which showed low test and low fsh, it could well be the juice.

I guess I will have to wait and see.

 

[vitor]

My father is on HRT, taking 250 mgs test e 1 day per week. His doctor and I had a confrence call as they wanted my dad to start some hcg, and come off for a few weeks, I said

"IF he is never going to be able to produce test again, why bother"

This doc says, very valid point, but the body does get adapted to test and eventully needs more and more.

I never thought about that for hrt stuff, that at some point you will need more for the same results or test levels I should say as my dad just does cardio 3 days a week and lifts the other 3, with one day off

 

[Fullybuilt]

My father is on HRT, taking 250 mgs test e 1 day per week. His doctor and I had a confrence call as they wanted my dad to start some hcg, and come off for a few weeks, I said

"IF he is never going to be able to produce test again, why bother"

This doc says, very valid point, but the body does get adapted to test and eventully needs more and more.

I never thought about that for hrt stuff, that at some point you will need more for the same results or test levels I should say as my dad just does cardio 3 days a week and lifts the other 3, with one day off

Its not that big of a deal though. My dad has been on 125mg cyp for a year now and his levels have remained the same. I think every 5years they tend to drop a little, so you may need to up the test around 25mg every 5years. Still not a big deal

 

[Fullybuilt]

What if I don't revover though. I'd hate to come off and have low test levels and lose all the gains i've made over the years. Is there a way to keep my gains if my test levels are low? Maybe GH 3iu's EOD will help?

Yes. HRT will continue to suppress the function of the Sertoli cells (where spermatogenisis takes place).

If you want kids, this is my suggestion; Don't do extended cycles, even a "maintenance dose" will continue to atrophy your sertoli cells. If you're currently on an extended cycle, get off and use hcg and clomid only for pct. Only use hcg for a couple of weeks after. Extended hcg use will further suppress your Leydig and Sertoli cells. Then spend 6 mos to a year completely clean from AAS, after which have your sperm count checked. If it's good to go, you can get back on AAS, but again, don't do extended cycles. I think normal sperm count is 20million per ml. If it's not at that mark, my reccomendation is to still refrain from AAS use until your sperm count completely recovers, which may take another year after that.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

so as far as gear messing with your fertility? i think its hear say. good luck bro

Are you kidding me.....you are obviously and exception to a very scientificaly proven hormonal rule.

Are you not aware of the multitude of published studies done with Testosterone as an effective male contraceptive??? How can you say it doesn't mess with your fertility??

Come on bro...think before you type!

For those of you that would like some real world advice from someone who just went through this.....and is now going to be a Poppa!!! PM me and I'll be glad to share my physician prescribed protocol.

 

[casper78]

always think before i type

Are you kidding me.....you are obviously and exception to a very scientificaly proven hormonal rule.

Are you not aware of the multitude of published studies done with Testosterone as an effective male contraceptive??? How can you say it doesn't mess with your fertility??

Come on bro...think before you type!

For those of you that would like some real world advice from someone who just went through this.....and is now going to be a Poppa!!! PM me and I'll be glad to share my physician prescribed protocol.

maybe u just had bad sperm from the get go. funny i know a whole lot of power lifters and rec juicers and funny that they all have kids. but you're right, maybe we are the weird ones. if u wanna blame your fertility probs on juice thats your right. you sound like an excuse maker to me

 

[Ethan James]

What if I don't revover though. I'd hate to come off and have low test levels and lose all the gains i've made over the years. Is there a way to keep my gains if my test levels are low? Maybe GH 3iu's EOD will help?

Aye, there's the rub; Which do you want more, to know you have the ability to have kids or to keep the gains?

At this point there's a whole lot in our non-aas arsenal that you can use to keep your gains including GH, IGF, slin, PGF, and now there's experiments with this new MGF. And let's not forget the ol' standby: food, lots of it. Sure, you might lose some muscle, sure you might get a little wobbly in the gut, but to have peace of mind that you're still producing swimmers, isn't it worth it?

 

[Ethan James]

maybe u just had bad sperm from the get go. funny i know a whole lot of power lifters and rec juicers and funny that they all have kids. but you're right, maybe we are the weird ones. if u wanna blame your fertility probs on juice thats your right. you sound like an excuse maker to me

Every body is different and let's not forget, it only takes ONE sperm to make a baby. AAS impairs your ability to produce sperm, period. If you and your friends impregnated women while juicing or in between cycles, congrats. You have beaten science. Seriously, I hope that when the time comes I'm just like you.

To tell VulgarDisplay that he's using juice as a scapegoat is a bit uncalled for. The man has obviously been to a fertility doctor. He has undoubtedly been through exams. If those exams came back and juice was not the cause, wouldn't it stand to reason that, on a board that advocates the pros of juicing, he would not announce a false con?

 

[casper78]

not while juicing

Every body is different and let's not forget, it only takes ONE sperm to make a baby. AAS impairs your ability to produce sperm, period. If you and your friends impregnated women while juicing or in between cycles, congrats. You have beaten science. Seriously, I hope that when the time comes I'm just like you.

To tell VulgarDisplay that he's using juice as a scapegoat is a bit uncalled for. The man has obviously been to a fertility doctor. He has undoubtedly been through exams. If those exams came back and juice was not the cause, wouldn't it stand to reason that, on a board that advocates the pros of juicing, he would not announce a false con?

i agree that it does impair your ability to produce sperm while on it. i dont agree that it impaires it for good. the guys i am speaking of all got preg between cycles but they all did the neccassary things to bring their system back to norm. i was a week into a cycle so as far as i go you're right it was a freak thing. as far as my comment to vulgar, the scapegoat comment was a jab but a jab that would not have been thrown if he would have witheld the "think before you type" comment. that itself was a jab and i threw one back. my my main point when i responded the first time was merely maybe this guy should stay clean for a while and then have his sperm checked. it is possible that he had week sperm from the get go

 

[The Wolf]

maybe u just had bad sperm from the get go. funny i know a whole lot of power lifters and rec juicers and funny that they all have kids. but you're right, maybe we are the weird ones. if u wanna blame your fertility probs on juice thats your right. you sound like an excuse maker to me

Check this out bro, last year I had some blood work, my test levels work good and my fsh were normal. This year after the sperm test my fsh levels were very low, thats what you need to make sperm. Last year I was clean for six months before I had the test, this year I was clean only for a month and a half. Heavy Androgens lower your fsh, therefore lowering or even halting your sperm production, ya feel me dawg?

 

[Ethan James]

i agree that it does impair your ability to produce sperm while on it. i dont agree that it impaires it for good.

I appreciate that, and we're all entitled to our opinion.

as far as my comment to vulgar, the scapegoat comment was a jab but a jab that would not have been thrown if he would have witheld the "think before you type" comment. that itself was a jab and i threw one back.

I understand.

my my main point when i responded the first time was merely maybe this guy should stay clean for a while and then have his sperm checked. it is possible that he had week sperm from the get go

If you are planning to one day have kids, this is what I also advocate.