Stan Efferding on Diet, Training Hafthor (The Mountain), etc.

[b-boy]

Stan has talked extensively about blood work. He has said he’s had blood work done hundreds of times to see how different foods and drugs effect him. He mentioned poor results from dirty bulks, running oral steroids etc when he was competing and talked about how competing isn’t healthy. He has said his blood work is good now but if your looking for specific results, I have not seen him post that. He also has his clients get blood work done regularly.

For me, it’s an easy and sustainable way to eat. I perform better and feel better than I did eating chicken, broccoli, egg whites, oatmeal etc

I'm glad someone GETS IT! ^^^^

 

[thethinker48]

I understand that but 1.) He did have some plaque build up in a major artery and 2.) Do we really believe there was NO increased risk from being 50lb over ideal weight for his height and years and years of AAS use? He may very well have not had the clot.

Like Maldorf, yes he had a genetic condition he was unaware of but it's likely he wouldn't have had the heart attack if he wasn't much heavier than what was natural, with years of AAS use.

All valid points

But John's parents didn't use gear or were extremely muscular. And they had it even before John's age. His calcium score (which only shows hard plaque admittedly) was still better than majority of the people in his age bracket.

Dare I say the decades of bloodwork with Doc Serrano, monitoring his BP, getting enough EFAs, exercising daily, coming off completely and later staying on TRT for years helped offset a lot of the damage of being a competitive bodybuilder for 30 years

Yes, he might've never had a clot if never used testosterone, maybe nolvadex contributed; but in another universe where John was an average sedentary overweight American, I don't think the risk factors would've been very different.

More than the amount of muscle one carries, it's the methods he employed to get it that will determine the extent of damage to the body in my opinion. And John was way more conservative than the average dufus competitor

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I like the vertical diet, i know several dudes who THRIVE on it...
But I hate how Stan talks about this versus "bodybuilding diets."
Putting down eating fish and chicken and cutting dairy out.

Realistically, Stan used this on BIG strongmen and PLers....he wasn't using this to get guys on stage. So lets not compare the two. No BBers use this because at a certain point in time, lots of them have to cut out red meat and dairy...So he calls it unhealthy. Ugh...BBing IS unhealthy dude.

I like the diet, it works. But using it to bash other shit that's not even comparable is dumb and just dumb marketing.

 

[b-boy]

I like the vertical diet, i know several dudes who THRIVE on it...
But I hate how Stan talks about this versus "bodybuilding diets."
Putting down eating fish and chicken and cutting dairy out.

Realistically, Stan used this on BIG strongmen and PLers....he wasn't using this to get guys on stage. So lets not compare the two. No BBers use this because at a certain point in time, lots of them have to cut out red meat and dairy...So he calls it unhealthy. Ugh...BBing IS unhealthy dude.

I like the diet, it works. But using it to bash other shit that's not even comparable is dumb and just dumb marketing.

Stan has prepped several people for stage using this diet. Why would you have to cut out red meat during a diet? Cement factory uses skinny beef the entire diet, Matt Porter did this with some people also. Its just calories in vs calories out, no need to cut out beef and whole eggs.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I'd love to see Stan and Dante debate. Which will never happen lol. Stan says how the more protein he ate the harder it was to gain weight and that over 1g/lb is not helpful. He is also against getting up to do morning cardio.

I like the vertical diet, i know several dudes who THRIVE on it...
But I hate how Stan talks about this versus "bodybuilding diets."
Putting down eating fish and chicken and cutting dairy out.

Realistically, Stan used this on BIG strongmen and PLers....he wasn't using this to get guys on stage. So lets not compare the two. No BBers use this because at a certain point in time, lots of them have to cut out red meat and dairy...So he calls it unhealthy. Ugh...BBing IS unhealthy dude.

I like the diet, it works. But using it to bash other shit that's not even comparable is dumb and just dumb marketing.

Yea I think a lot of people have pointed out it's great for massing but can lead to a ton of hunger while dieting

 

[td]

Google Vilaire Communications, VCI, Oregon Public Utility Commission, Broadband Deployment Act, Lifeline program, Docket No. 080065-TX.

Any of combination of those terms will lead you down an interesting path. Read the court documents if you're so inclined. It's public record.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Then Stan RARELY talks about them. His biggest marketing push is, "i made strongmen healthier."
And you don't NEED to cut out red meat or dairy, but LOTS of people have to. I just think his diet has a lot of absolutes. And yeah, you can get ready for a show on Burger King. Is it going to be easy and will you look the best? Who knows.

He obviously pushes this diet to the regular person (lacking in micronutrients) and performance competitor because he hasn't made much of a push for competitive BBers.

Stan has prepped several people for stage using this diet. Why would you have to cut out red meat during a diet? Cement factory uses skinny beef the entire diet, Matt Porter did this with some people also. Its just calories in vs calories out, no need to cut out beef and whole eggs.

 

[N.L....M.....]

Yea I think a lot of people have pointed out it's great for massing but can lead to a ton of hunger while dieting

A caloric deficit leads to hunger. Why would this type of eating specifically be linked to more hunger vs other ways of eating?
Have you tried it?

 

[N.L....M.....]

Then Stan RARELY talks about them. His biggest marketing push is, "i made strongmen healthier."
And you don't NEED to cut out red meat or dairy, but LOTS of people have to. I just think his diet has a lot of absolutes. And yeah, you can get ready for a show on Burger King. Is it going to be easy and will you look the best? Who knows.

He obviously pushes this diet to the regular person (lacking in micronutrients) and performance competitor because he hasn't made much of a push for competitive BBers.

Nadia Wyatt is an ifbb pro that very successfully used it.

 

[b-boy]

Nadia Wyatt is an ifbb pro that very successfully used it.

He also got flex wheeler in contest shape with it

 

[Flex500]

Everyone probably is "a little right". Hell Stan even directly says he didn't invent this it's a collection of ideas and thoughts people have used and he is marketing it. Good for him. In a world of unhealthy folks it seems like he is trying to promote a micronutrient dense diet that will help many folks feel better and, potentially, be healthier.

He really doesn't come off at all like he invented some novelty. Most ideas are recycled and this is the "stan diet" that he promoted and named the vertical diet. Honestly I was at a seminar and he literally said "I didn't invent this shit it's food, eat healthy, but I figured I'd market what I do".

I also think there are some fair points that when calories get really low it often helps eating lower calorie foods so you can eat more. The flip side is I think you can do that with stans diet. But live, in person, it was very much about him strongly promoting these foods but he wasn't demanding anyone be tied up and beat if they ate a piece of bread or a bagel instead of a potato.

 

[goback2013]

Google Vilaire Communications, VCI, Oregon Public Utility Commission, Broadband Deployment Act, Lifeline program, Docket No. 080065-TX.

Any of combination of those terms will lead you down an interesting path. Read the court documents if you're so inclined. It's public record.

cliffs/tldr please..

 

[totalrecomp]

cliffs/tldr please..

Well it looks like the government decided to pay for cell phones for the "less fortunate" and some people may have played a little loose with the accounting of how many lines they hooked up in 2006................basically the numbers do not add up when audited. Not sure what came of this as I am not going to read past the third document.

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/library/filings/2007/10382-2007/10382-2007.pdf This is the one I read.

 

[td]

Well it looks like the government decided to pay for cell phones for the "less fortunate" and some people may have played a little loose with the accounting of how many lines they hooked up in 2006................basically the numbers do not add up when audited. Not sure what came of this as I am not going to read past the third document.

http://www.psc.state.fl.us/library/filings/2007/10382-2007/10382-2007.pdf This is the one I read.

Look who owned Vilaire and VCI.

Stan says he created a multi-million dollar telecom.

Consider the source before you take anything someone says at face value.

 

[Fit2Serve]

I understand that but 1.) He did have some plaque build up in a major artery and 2.) Do we really believe there was NO increased risk from being 50lb over ideal weight for his height and years and years of AAS use? He may very well have not had the clot.

Like Maldorf, yes he had a genetic condition he was unaware of but it's likely he wouldn't have had the heart attack if he wasn't much heavier than what was natural, with years of AAS use.

put your head back in the sand. abusing drugs and being over weight had nothing to do with it (insert sarcastic emoji)
-F2S

 

[Deleted member 106824]

A caloric deficit leads to hunger. Why would this type of eating specifically be linked to more hunger vs other ways of eating?
Have you tried it?

There are numerous factors that lead to hunger. Obviously it's not just about calories. There's a reason people tend to choose more fibrous, voluminous foods while dieting...they are more satiating. A lot of the foods in the vertical diet are easily digestible and not very filling, that's one of the major benefits of it for people bulking up. I'm not at all saying it can't be used for a contest prep but you'd likely want to make sure you have more vegetables, less white rice, etc.

 

[goback2013]

Look who owned Vilaire and VCI.

Stan says he created a multi-million dollar telecom.

Consider the source before you take anything someone says at face value.

But what does his past business dealings have to do with the vertical diet ?
OK.. Maybe it's statement on his character. I'll give you that for the sake of argument.
But the vertical diet? It's not a smoke and mirrors con, fleecing people out of their life savings.
He's just pitching rice, red meat, and some other ingredients.
If you're need a push start, then you can purchase his meals and at most some consulting.
Otherwise its free and sound information for anyone looking to complete the dietary piece of the fitness puzzle.

 

[N.L....M.....]

But what does his past business dealings have to do with the vertical diet ?
OK.. Maybe it's statement on his character. I'll give you that for the sake of argument.
But the vertical diet? It's not a smoke and mirrors con, fleecing people out of their life savings.
He's just pitching rice, red meat, and some other ingredients.
If you're need a push start, then you can purchase his meals and at most some consulting.
Otherwise its free and sound information for anyone looking to complete the dietary piece of the fitness puzzle.

Agreed. He’s given away most of the information online. Hell most of the fitness and supplement industry is filled with conmen

 

[td]

But what does his past business dealings have to do with the vertical diet ?
OK.. Maybe it's statement on his character. I'll give you that for the sake of argument.
But the vertical diet? It's not a smoke and mirrors con, fleecing people out of their life savings.
He's just pitching rice, red meat, and some other ingredients.
If you're need a push start, then you can purchase his meals and at most some consulting.
Otherwise its free and sound information for anyone looking to complete the dietary piece of the fitness puzzle.

It absolutely speaks to his character. One should probably keep that in mind when evaluating any statement he makes.

By all means, debate "the vertical diet." But bodybuilders and other athletes have been eating beef and rice for decades before this marketer started selling $100 e-books and packaged meals.

 

[Flex500]

The other thing I'll add is being on the vertical diet wrecked my lipids. I had a similar experience as Derick from more plates more dates youtube channel. While there is a study showing eggs don't increase cholesterol there is nuance to that study...and other studies to consider. Adding 3-5 whole eggs a day my LDL shot up to 185. Take them away and add back in more fiber and it dropped to 115 in 6 weeks. 105mgs trt the entire time. I don't think this will be the case with most people but it will be the case with some. It's really quite nuts but I've repeated this experiment over and over. Even 1-2 eggs I see a slight increase in my cholesterol. My hunch is my normal diet was lower in saturated fat (but not low fat) and extraordinarily high in fiber (like 70+ grams a day). I'd imagine that fiber going from 70+ to 30-40 and radically increasing saturated fat is what caused. All other bloods are perfect so we can speculate my risk for an cardiovascular event but I'm just not ok with my ldl so high.

Also, like reviewed in more plates more dates youtube channel I could keep the red meat in and it didn't do a lot with my cholesterol (in fairness it's very lean beef and steak).

My triglycerides, HDL, etc. are all pretty good and I don't get hung up on if my LDL is 100 or 120 and such but when it gets to 180+ I'm not comfortable.

Stan DOES address this in his seminars at times and makes note some people do have to adjust.