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Stan Efferding on Diet, Training Hafthor (The Mountain), etc.

Flex500

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It absolutely speaks to his character. One should probably keep that in mind when evaluating any statement he makes.

By all means, debate "the vertical diet." But bodybuilders and other athletes have been eating beef and rice for decades before this marketer started selling $100 e-books and packaged meals.

I'm with you but if we apply that logic to the entire industry it goes from being a multi, multi, multi billionaire dollar industry to being worth $5 and a pancake. Your second sentence describes the entire industry and frankly most of what we all consume in any industry.
 

td

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I'm with you but if we apply that logic to the entire industry it goes from being a multi, multi, multi billionaire dollar industry to being worth $5 and a pancake. Your second sentence describes the entire industry and frankly most of what we all consume in any industry.
Oh, I completely agree. Don't get me started on things like Tesla's blatant accounting fraud.... But I digress.

Just because deception is common, it should not make it acceptable. There are honorable, honest individuals in fitness. I prefer to support those.

I simply ask, if you have documented evidence of past transgressions and dishonest, predatory behavior, how can you trust that individual?

"I'm not upset you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you."
-Nietzsche

I personally include whole eggs, beef and rice in my diet. As well as chicken, fish, pork, potatoes, vegetables including nightshades. But I was doing this before there was a vertical diet and I expect many here are similar.

My apologies if I have taken this thread off course. I only wished to highlight details that are contrary to how this individual presents himself.
 

j2048b

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The other thing I'll add is being on the vertical diet wrecked my lipids. I had a similar experience as Derick from more plates more dates youtube channel. While there is a study showing eggs don't increase cholesterol there is nuance to that study...and other studies to consider. Adding 3-5 whole eggs a day my LDL shot up to 185. Take them away and add back in more fiber and it dropped to 115 in 6 weeks. 105mgs trt the entire time. I don't think this will be the case with most people but it will be the case with some. It's really quite nuts but I've repeated this experiment over and over. Even 1-2 eggs I see a slight increase in my cholesterol. My hunch is my normal diet was lower in saturated fat (but not low fat) and extraordinarily high in fiber (like 70+ grams a day). I'd imagine that fiber going from 70+ to 30-40 and radically increasing saturated fat is what caused. All other bloods are perfect so we can speculate my risk for an cardiovascular event but I'm just not ok with my ldl so high.

Also, like reviewed in more plates more dates youtube channel I could keep the red meat in and it didn't do a lot with my cholesterol (in fairness it's very lean beef and steak).

My triglycerides, HDL, etc. are all pretty good and I don't get hung up on if my LDL is 100 or 120 and such but when it gets to 180+ I'm not comfortable.

Stan DOES address this in his seminars at times and makes note some people do have to adjust.
My ldl.is 177 and has been for over 12 yrs, no matter what i do 8 cannot get it to go lower, maybe 1 time in my life it went down by adding fiber but i was pissing out of my butt

How do u add that much fiber and not crap urself every time u squeeek out a bit of air from that end??? I need to know so i can up my fiber to reduce my ldl
 

totalrecomp

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My ldl.is 177 and has been for over 12 yrs, no matter what i do 8 cannot get it to go lower, maybe 1 time in my life it went down by adding fiber but i was pissing out of my butt

How do u add that much fiber and not crap urself every time u squeeek out a bit of air from that end??? I need to know so i can up my fiber to reduce my ldl

What sources of fiber were you using? Did you increase it slowly, like add 5g and then wait for your system to adjust?
 

MaconiDDS

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The other thing I'll add is being on the vertical diet wrecked my lipids. I had a similar experience as Derick from more plates more dates youtube channel. While there is a study showing eggs don't increase cholesterol there is nuance to that study...and other studies to consider. Adding 3-5 whole eggs a day my LDL shot up to 185. Take them away and add back in more fiber and it dropped to 115 in 6 weeks. 105mgs trt the entire time. I don't think this will be the case with most people but it will be the case with some. It's really quite nuts but I've repeated this experiment over and over. Even 1-2 eggs I see a slight increase in my cholesterol. My hunch is my normal diet was lower in saturated fat (but not low fat) and extraordinarily high in fiber (like 70+ grams a day). I'd imagine that fiber going from 70+ to 30-40 and radically increasing saturated fat is what caused. All other bloods are perfect so we can speculate my risk for an cardiovascular event but I'm just not ok with my ldl so high.

Also, like reviewed in more plates more dates youtube channel I could keep the red meat in and it didn't do a lot with my cholesterol (in fairness it's very lean beef and steak).

My triglycerides, HDL, etc. are all pretty good and I don't get hung up on if my LDL is 100 or 120 and such but when it gets to 180+ I'm not comfortable.

Stan DOES address this in his seminars at times and makes note some people do have to adjust.

I didn't get too much into cholesterol with Stan during our podcast (other than generally talking about blood work) but I'm not surprised your LDL went up given what you mentioned. I did carnivore diet for one month just as an experiment and even without eggs my cholesterol went up astronomically....total in the 400s and LDL in the 300s. Normally my total is around 180-200 and LDL 100-130.

I saw John Meadow's cardiologist recently say we can only change our cholesterol by about 10% through diet and exercise and the rest is genetic. Clearly not true lol
 

NEMSZ

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I didn't get too much into cholesterol with Stan during our podcast (other than generally talking about blood work) but I'm not surprised your LDL went up given what you mentioned. I did carnivore diet for one month just as an experiment and even without eggs my cholesterol went up astronomically....total in the 400s and LDL in the 300s. Normally my total is around 180-200 and LDL 100-130.

I saw John Meadow's cardiologist recently say we can only change our cholesterol by about 10% through diet and exercise and the rest is genetic. Clearly not true lol

Were you on any AAS? I know of a few compounds that will put your total/ldl into those ranges no problem, Tren being one of them.. Hard to believe 1 month of eating meat alone tripled your numbers lol... But everyone is different I suppose..
 

Flex500

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I didn't get too much into cholesterol with Stan during our podcast (other than generally talking about blood work) but I'm not surprised your LDL went up given what you mentioned. I did carnivore diet for one month just as an experiment and even without eggs my cholesterol went up astronomically....total in the 400s and LDL in the 300s. Normally my total is around 180-200 and LDL 100-130.

I saw John Meadow's cardiologist recently say we can only change our cholesterol by about 10% through diet and exercise and the rest is genetic. Clearly not true lol


Thanks for the input! I had a mirror experience of this:

I'll have to start a new thread but I kept to the veritical diet very close but literally cut out the eggs and added back in fiber and my cholesterol dropped right back down to normal. It was nuts and it happened 5 weeks post dropping the eggs and adding the fiber it was back to normal. I still ate 12-20 ounces of red meat a day.
 

Flex500

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Were you on any AAS? I know of a few compounds that will put your total/ldl into those ranges no problem, Tren being one of them.. Hard to believe 1 month of eating meat alone tripled your numbers lol... But everyone is different I suppose..

No doubt and I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with the eggs. How can I still eat all that red meat but literally dropping the eggs and adding the fiber I saw my ldl go from sky high to back down damn near to 100. My theory is I don't eat much saturated fat so the influx of 21 eggs up to sometimes 40 a week is what did it. The bison and red meat I eat is relatively lean and most of the other fat I eat is from mac nut oil, salmon, olive oil, etc so I wonder if it is just my body getting that rapid influx of saturated fat with the reduction in fiber?
 

Flex500

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My ldl.is 177 and has been for over 12 yrs, no matter what i do 8 cannot get it to go lower, maybe 1 time in my life it went down by adding fiber but i was pissing out of my butt

How do u add that much fiber and not crap urself every time u squeeek out a bit of air from that end??? I need to know so i can up my fiber to reduce my ldl

that is exactly what my wife says she has a tough time with fiber! I've never had an issue I can literally eat 100 grams of fiber a day with no issue at all. I usually start my meals with a fiber supplement, a green drink, and prune juice lol
 

Flex500

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Oh, I completely agree. Don't get me started on things like Tesla's blatant accounting fraud.... But I digress.

Just because deception is common, it should not make it acceptable. There are honorable, honest individuals in fitness. I prefer to support those.

I simply ask, if you have documented evidence of past transgressions and dishonest, predatory behavior, how can you trust that individual?

"I'm not upset you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you."
-Nietzsche

I personally include whole eggs, beef and rice in my diet. As well as chicken, fish, pork, potatoes, vegetables including nightshades. But I was doing this before there was a vertical diet and I expect many here are similar.

My apologies if I have taken this thread off course. I only wished to highlight details that are contrary to how this individual presents himself.


oh you are good man I get what you are saying and in principle I agree. I think Stan comes off pretty good at his seminars and he is pretty upfront about "this is the way I diet and coach so I should market it".
 

b-boy

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Man you guys really need to research cholesterol and what its main job in the body is. If you are eating whole eggs thats a pretty decent amount of fat added into your diet, so yes cholesterol will rise. What you need to be concerned with is remnant cholesterol, that is the shit thats left hanging in your blood, just like glucose you don't want that.
 

b-boy

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also if your eating plenty of carbohydrates to fuel your workout and daily activities and especially if your eating in a calorie surplus you probably don't want to be eating a lot of extra fat from red meat and whole eggs....key word PROBABLY
 

Flex500

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Man you guys really need to research cholesterol and what its main job in the body is. If you are eating whole eggs thats a pretty decent amount of fat added into your diet, so yes cholesterol will rise. What you need to be concerned with is remnant cholesterol, that is the shit thats left hanging in your blood, just like glucose you don't want that.


I do agree with this and I think most progressive doctors will as well. However, I also believe even the most progressive physicians just won't be comfortable seeing someone's LDL go from 100-115 to 175+ especially when the solution (for me) was to just cut the eggs and add back in fiber.

I wholeheartedly agree it's important to find a doctor who really is up to date on the research on pure cholesterol numbers. But in my case my LDL-P went from a baseline of ~1,000 up to 2,600 and then back down to sub 1,000 just taking eggs in and out.

I also would note my issue may not apply to others it's an individual issue and with that small change I still adhere to the vertical diet otherwise. I personally would not have made changes if my ldl only moved 5%-15%. But with the NMR liproprifile my results were concerning. My small LDL-P also went way up from ~400 to ~900 back down to ~500. I'm buying eggs right from the farm too so it's not the quality. I'll likely add back in 5-7 eggs a week which I would bet won't make much of a difference.

Of note my c-reactive protein has continued to go down and dropped even further after getting rid of the eggs but still pounding the red meat.
 

j2048b

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What sources of fiber were you using? Did you increase it slowly, like add 5g and then wait for your system to adjust?
I was using jarrow fiber that u add to yr shakes,

I might have to take it up slower this go round

What other fiber sources are best to add in?
 

totalrecomp

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I was using jarrow fiber that u add to yr shakes,

I might have to take it up slower this go round

What other fiber sources are best to add in?

Jarrow makes a range of fiber products do you know which one? I know too much soluble fiber can do a number on me personally, especially when over consumed suddenly, ie. 3-4 quest bars in a sitting. That makes for a really bad toilet day and a sore bum lol.
 

MaconiDDS

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Were you on any AAS? I know of a few compounds that will put your total/ldl into those ranges no problem, Tren being one of them.. Hard to believe 1 month of eating meat alone tripled your numbers lol... But everyone is different I suppose..

No AAS. I don't think it's that hard to believe when someone is eating a diet entirely of meat. Those numbers are not unheard of for people doing carnivore.

Also, I was dieting during this time, and LDL can acutely go up during a period of caloric deficit.
 

j2048b

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Jarrow makes a range of fiber products do you know which one? I know too much soluble fiber can do a number on me personally, especially when over consumed suddenly, ie. 3-4 quest bars in a sitting. That makes for a really bad toilet day and a sore bum lol.

Gentle fibers , smells like saw dust, i like it :), made me go more constant, but a lot more, maybe just a clean out phase not sure?

What other fiber brands are good? And affordable?
 

totalrecomp

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Looking at that product there is nothing that I immediately think would cause issues. Did you gradually increase intake or was it a 0 intake right into high intake? Regardless of the amount if you dramatically increase intake there can be a rough transition. For me personally this applies to fats, carbs and protein. If I go from low carb intake, sub 50g, to say 300 in a day my digestion takes a week or two to adjust. The same happens with protein and to a lesser degree fats.

What is your fiber intake now? Did the issues start immediately when you added that product? Was there an amount you did tolerate? What were your bowel movements like prior to adding in the fiber?

I personally use a simple psyllium and of course food as a source.
 

j2048b

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Looking at that product there is nothing that I immediately think would cause issues. Did you gradually increase intake or was it a 0 intake right into high intake? Regardless of the amount if you dramatically increase intake there can be a rough transition. For me personally this applies to fats, carbs and protein. If I go from low carb intake, sub 50g, to say 300 in a day my digestion takes a week or two to adjust. The same happens with protein and to a lesser degree fats.

What is your fiber intake now? Did the issues start immediately when you added that product? Was there an amount you did tolerate? What were your bowel movements like prior to adding in the fiber?

I personally use a simple psyllium and of course food as a source.

Thru my last trainer i hired i added a certain amount to 2 shakes per day (dont remember the amount) and slowly increased per week.... I might throw in a couple different ones to see how it lowers my cholesterol and also my garlics....we will see how it goes

Along with the diet here we are talking about
 

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