Starting my first blast and cruise soon, what do ya think?

jay o. · Dec 8, 2011

Starting January 2012, heres what ive got laid out for like 49 weeks i think:

Blast-
(Cut/recomp)
Weeks 1-7: Test-E 500mg/wk
Weeks 8-12: Test-E 800mg/wk
Weeks 5-12: Masteron 500mg/wk
Weeks 4-10: Winstrol 75mg/ED (raise to 100mg?)
Weeks 1-15: EQ 600mg/wk
-----------------------------
(Bulk)
Weeks 13-18: Test-E 1.2g/wk
Weeks 19-24: Test-E 1.5g/wk
Weeks 13-18: Dbol 60mg/ED (going from winstrol to dbol 3 weeks later okay? i assume my liver will be fine)
Weeks 13-24: Deca 600mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

Blast-
(Bulk)
Weeks 1-7: Test-E 1g/wk
Weeks 8-13: Test-E 1.4g/wk
Weeks 1-6: Dbol 60mg/ED
Weeks 1-12: Deca 600mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: EQ 800mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

The goal is to first cut/recomp. Reason I say that instead of just recomp is because my goal is more towards leaning out than gaining muscle, but i will be adding muscle as well. Then it will be bridged into a bulk. Then cruise. Then heavy bulk. Then cruise. Should last about 49 weeks I believe. From there I will plan out my blasts and cruises when it's time again. No need to plan past a year worth of gear.

Also, what do you guys think of my cruise dose? 5'10 230 ~13% bodyfat at the moment. I put 300mg after reading a few replies to my thread a little while back. My goal is to put on quality mass continually and keep it. Also im pretty sure huge blasts and small cruise doses aren't necessarily good for this...thoughts/critiques?

PLer1290 · Dec 9, 2011

Stay on 300mg year round and have your blast match whatever goal you have. From what I've seen, blast and cruise plans don't usually follow the plan and they just kind of play it by ear. Get bloodwork checked at the end of each cruise so you can see if you're ready to start the blast or not.

jay o. · Dec 9, 2011

What do you mean to see if I'm ready or not from the bloodwork? You're just saying if I'm healthy right? Also, what do you mean play it by ear? I figured an outline would be nice, especially since I'm ordering 3 months of gear at a time.

Thanks for the info

saps · Dec 9, 2011

Here's my thoughts jay o.:
You say my goal is more towards leaning out than gaining muscle, but i will be adding muscle as well. So I ask you where's the GH? Your entire protocol seems to be void of some of the compounds I'd most immediately associate with lean gains GH, tren most notably. Conversely you have substantial doses and duration of dbol and deca in addition to test. These are compounds I would not associate with lean dry muscle gains. Please understand I'm not saying this isn't a good or effective proposal just that it doesn't seem to line up as properly for your stated goals.
As far as a 300mg/wk cruise dose? Well you can cruise on whatever you want. I used to cruise at 500mg/wk to limit loses. My personal problem was keeping doses that high for me never allowed my body and specifically certain aspects of my blood profile to recover, reset and renew. That's why so many find 100-200mg/wk more effective for recovery; though granted you will lose something tangible in the way of muscle gains made on multiple grams a week. My last cruise was just 175mg/wk and yeah I got smaller and weaker but for the first time in years I had measureable improvement in my RBC, iron, hematocrit and LDL/HDL levels during my 2 month+ cruise. Bottom line here I'd say run a cruise dose that's best for your bloodwork whatever that is and yeah it might take you a few months to figure out just what that is

saps · Dec 9, 2011

jay o. said:
What do you mean to see if I'm ready or not from the bloodwork? You're just saying if I'm healthy right? Also, what do you mean play it by ear? I figured an outline would be nice, especially since I'm ordering 3 months of gear at a time.

Thanks for the info

Yeah bloodwork meaning everything that potentially goes awry during a cycle/blast. I listed several in my post above but there's plenty more like E2 levels, BP and just a laundry list you hopefully already know about; though by your question I'm not sure you do. You'll want your liver values check since you're running orals too; don't wanna just assume your liver will be fine. Maybe it will be totally fine but there's only one way to know, get it tested.

jay o. · Dec 9, 2011

saps said:
Here's my thoughts jay o.:
You say my goal is more towards leaning out than gaining muscle, but i will be adding muscle as well. So I ask you where's the GH? Your entire protocol seems to be void of some of the compounds I'd most immediately associate with lean gains GH, tren most notably. Conversely you have substantial doses and duration of dbol and deca in addition to test. These are compounds I would not associate with lean dry muscle gains. Please understand I'm not saying this isn't a good or effective proposal just that it doesn't seem to line up as properly for your stated goals.
As far as a 300mg/wk cruise dose? Well you can cruise on whatever you want. I used to cruise at 500mg/wk to limit loses. My personal problem was keeping doses that high for me never allowed my body and specifically certain aspects of my blood profile to recover, reset and renew. That's why so many find 100-200mg/wk more effective for recovery; though granted you will lose something tangible in the way of muscle gains made on multiple grams a week. My last cruise was just 175mg/wk and yeah I got smaller and weaker but for the first time in years I had measureable improvement in my RBC, iron, hematocrit and LDL/HDL levels during my 2 month+ cruise. Bottom line here I'd say run a cruise dose that's best for your bloodwork whatever that is and yeah it might take you a few months to figure out just what that is

saps said:
Yeah bloodwork meaning everything that potentially goes awry during a cycle/blast. I listed several in my post above but there's plenty more like E2 levels, BP and just a laundry list you hopefully already know about; though by your question I'm not sure you do. You'll want your liver values check since you're running orals too; don't wanna just assume your liver will be fine. Maybe it will be totally fine but there's only one way to know, get it tested.

Thanks saps, I really respect your insight as it seems you have knowledge and wisdom on these subjects. As far as my compounds not matching up to lean dry gains, i understand that sort of. I understand I will get a bloat affect after the recomp, but the bloat will come down after i start cruising etc. and that will show what lean gains were really made. So I guess my question is what compounds or thoughts do you have in mind? Do you think i should switch those out? Obviously i need GH added in here, i think i can get my hands on some. Ill have to check the funds. I was thinking of adding in tren but dont know how serious the sides can be (another words, are they exaggerated or not? ive read they are) or if i can handle them within the next few months. Also, as stated before, my goal is to become an IFBB pro in the years to come.

saps · Dec 9, 2011

Turning pro is extraordinarily difficult even becoming a national level contender means you have achieved and attained a whole bunch.
Tren sides can be controlled. They are as bad as advertized if you do it wrong but if you do it right its not a issue at all. As aforementioned the only one missing from your arsenal is tren IMO. You aren't prepping for a show so I think you'll be fine with what you have and tren. Mind you I'm not saying merely to add tren into your current proposal. You'll likely end up subbing the tren in maybe in exchange for the deca. You definitely wanna know how you do on deca and tren alone before even thinking of running them both concurrently

aussiebulldog · Dec 9, 2011

saps said:
Here's my thoughts jay o.:
My last cruise was just 175mg/wk and yeah I got smaller and weaker but for the first time in years I had measureable improvement in my RBC, iron, hematocrit and LDL/HDL levels during my 2 month+ cruise. Bottom line here I'd say run a cruise dose that's best for your bloodwork whatever that is and yeah it might take you a few months to figure out just what that is

Very important . this is for longevity in what we do.
great post saps.

BarbaraBush · Dec 9, 2011

i would change your cut/recomp entirely.

tren starting at 350/wk or whatever you feel comfortable (higher if sides are manageable or lower if not), and i would keep test around 200 or so, then drop the eq and winny, no point in using those to cut with.

if you have spare cash i'd run 5iu of gh a day, with 2iu in the morning alongside low intensity fasted cardio. the diet should be around 3k calories/day (or less depending on just how aggressive you want to cut vs. recomp) in an intermittent fasting approach, eating for only 6 hours of the day, around the time you will be weightlifting

the bulk looks good, can't go wrong with test/deca/d-bol. it is the tried and true bulking cycle, just make sure you eat and train well enough and you will definitely grow. you can add a little GH to it as well, again if you have the funds, as GH helps immensely.

good luck

jay o. · Dec 9, 2011

Thank you all for the replies. Only problem here is that every time i get comfortable and think its good to go someone comes in and throws in a good idea or two...lol
I think im comfortable with doing this, wont be able to get GH til next year, which is fine with me. From some time next year ill be running GH year round. For now, how does this look? Also, why lower the test dose significantly when on tren? Ive never been on tren and tren acetate seems the way to go. Starting with 350mg, seem okay for a first time run with tren? Not sure if 10 weeks is long enough with these compounds to get from 13% to a desired 10 or high single digit bodyfat but im hoping so. I drop fat easily, so it shouldnt be a problem.

Should i add in or take away anything? What can i expect side effects wise (good and bad) from the tren (it makes me slightly anxious)? Should i wait til the bulk to add in tren instead? Or use it for the recomp? That about covers it...would greatly appreciate some answers.

Blast-
(Cut/recomp)
Weeks 1-10: Test Prop ?mg/wk
Weeks 1-10: Test-E ?mg/wk
**im not sure if i want to add test prop and test-e, and let them add up to 300mg total while letting the test prop kick in**
Weeks 3-10: Masteron 500mg/wk
Weeks 1-10: Tren-Ace 350mg/wk
Weeks 4-10: Winstrol 75mg/ED
-----------------------------
(Bulk)
Weeks 11-16: Test-E 1g/wk
Weeks 17-22: Test-E 1.5g/wk
Weeks 11-16: Dbol 60mg/ED
Weeks 11-22: Deca 800mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

Blast-
(Bulk)
Weeks 1-7: Test-E #g/wk (i will figure the dose out when i order gear again for this blast, going to see how i respond to 1 and 1.5g of test)
Weeks 8-13: Test-E #g/wk (i will figure the dose out when i order gear again for this blast, going to see how i respond to 1 and 1.5g of test)
Weeks 1-6: Dbol 60mg/ED
Weeks 1-12: Deca 800mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: EQ 600mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

jay o. · Dec 10, 2011

Update...this is what im going with. Critiques/comments/questions/input are welcome, i believe this will get the job done. Cant be dealing with tren any time soon as i just had some hypertension about 2 months ago. Going to the cardiologist to get it checked out, then placing my order.
Here it is:

Blast-
(Cut/recomp)
Weeks 1-3: Test Prop 300mg/wk
Weeks 1-5: Test-E 600mg/wk
Weeks 6-10: Test-E 800mg/wk
Weeks 3-10: Masteron 500mg/wk
Weeks 3-9: Winstrol 75mg/ED
-----------------------------
(Bulk)
Weeks 11-16: Test-E 1g/wk
Weeks 17-22: Test-E 1.5g/wk
Weeks 11-16: Dbol 60mg/ED
Weeks 11-22: Deca 800mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

Blast-
(Bulk)
Weeks 1-7: Test-E #g/wk (i will figure the dose out when i order gear again for this blast, going to see how i respond to 1.2 and 1.5g of test)
Weeks 8-13: Test-E #g/wk (i will figure the dose out when i order gear again for this blast, going to see how i respond to 1.2 and 1.5g of test)
Weeks 1-6: Dbol 60mg/ED
Weeks 1-12: Deca 800mg/wk
Weeks 1-12: EQ 600mg/wk

Cruise-
Weeks 1-6: Test-E 300mg/wk

BA69 · Dec 10, 2011

I really don't see why you think you need the winny in there, especially since you will be running dbol right after. I would drop the winny entirely. Masteron should do the trick.

Also, if you can get the funds together, 2ius of good GH ED will definetely make things much more interesting, and you'll notice you can back off doses and get more bang for your buck

jay o. · Dec 10, 2011

BA69 said:
I really don't see why you think you need the winny in there, especially since you will be running dbol right after. I would drop the winny entirely. Masteron should do the trick.

Also, if you can get the funds together, 2ius of good GH ED will definetely make things much more interesting, and you'll notice you can back off doses and get more bang for your buck

I figured the winstrol would help me cut, would it not? Running dbol after wouldnt cancel out anything..would it? Your post confuses me a bit.

I dont know about backing off on doses because of GH or the more bang for your buck...cause in the end your still spending loads...but i can kinda see that.

lilhawk1 · Dec 10, 2011

jay o. said:
I figured the winstrol would help me cut, would it not? Running dbol after wouldnt cancel out anything..would it? Your post confuses me a bit.

I dont know about backing off on doses because of GH or the more bang for your buck...cause in the end your still spending loads...but i can kinda see that.

You can cut on anything. It's all about your diet. I've cut very well with just Anadrol, and Test. Suspension.

BA69 · Dec 10, 2011

Sure, winstrol helps you cut, but there are healthier alternatives. You are staying on for good by the sounds of it, keep the oral use low. You are no longer a recreational juicer. A different strategy needs to be developped, one that includes longevity. The hardening effect of winstrol disappears when you stop using it, I would keep it for precontest. It also has a habit of destroying your cholesterol profile.

jay o. · Dec 10, 2011

lilhawk1 said:
You can cut on anything. It's all about your diet. I've cut very well with just Anadrol, and Test. Suspension.

Sure, but there are multiple compounds for a reason. They aid in destroying bodyfat.

BA69 said:
Sure, winstrol helps you cut, but there are healthier alternatives. You are staying on for good by the sounds of it, keep the oral use low. You are no longer a recreational juicer. A different strategy needs to be developped, one that includes longevity. The hardening effect of winstrol disappears when you stop using it, I would keep it for precontest. It also has a habit of destroying your cholesterol profile.

Oh I see what you're saying now. Agreed, i may or may not cut out winny, not sure. At the moment i think im keeping it in. I wont abuse orals nor do i plan on it really...good insight though