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Staying away from Testosterone?

Matsuo Munefusa

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What did your progesterone bloodwork look like? Or what spurred the decision to add progesterone cream?
My progesterone level much like my LH and FSH level was “undetectable”

Another interesting effect I’ve had...I have lingering gyno in one nipple (lol) that has been under control/dormant now but still painful. My toddler always wrestles with me and inevitably hits my nipple and that shit hurts. After 3-4 days on progesterone the nipple is not painful at all. Entire chest area looks “drier”.

No change in test dose, still extremely low dose AI use 1-2x/week 6.25mg aromasin, and no SERMs for weeks. Just added 20mg progesterone cream at night.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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One other interesting thing from it, my joints feel better, like lubed effect that deca gave me (dunno if that’s a coincidence since they’re both progesterone drugs?) but deca was the drug that gave me this lingering gyno in the first place years ago and now progesterone is clearing it up. To add to the mundfuck, joint effect was the REASON I took deca in the first place lol - I wished I had just known about running test/prog back then :)
 

Glory4God

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One other interesting thing from it, my joints feel better, like lubed effect that deca gave me (dunno if that’s a coincidence since they’re both progesterone drugs?) but deca was the drug that gave me this lingering gyno in the first place years ago and now progesterone is clearing it up. To add to the mundfuck, joint effect was the REASON I took deca in the first place lol - I wished I had just known about running test/prog back then :)
Are you utilizing progesterone cream?
 

goback2013

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One other interesting thing from it, my joints feel better, like lubed effect that deca gave me (dunno if that’s a coincidence since they’re both progesterone drugs?) but deca was the drug that gave me this lingering gyno in the first place years ago and now progesterone is clearing it up. To add to the mundfuck, joint effect was the REASON I took deca in the first place lol - I wished I had just known about running test/prog back then :)
Where are you applying the cream?
Seems scrotum application is being talked about as the most effective roa
 

goback2013

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Yeah balls at night lol
yeah.. i actually tried the same thing. tried it for a week, but didnt notice a sustained libido increase or well being.
maybe the first few days it seemed, but then nothing after that.
in fact, instead of relaxed i felt more charged.
when i applied at night, it seemed to wake me up and increase my heart rate.
i then just opted for hcg and things have leveled out. sharp increase in libido as well.

so who knows, maybe i bought some bunk cream and maybe should try brewing some raws in my next blend.
 

Kaladryn

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I think high levels of testosterone relative to other hormones is key to minimizing the negative effects of those other hormones. I think test generally has less negative impact on the organs and I think most people could get all the results they ever wanted just from test. I think it's underrated also, and I think the positive effects of other compounds are overrated (outside of contest prep).

Inability to manage E2 levels properly is probably why most people have issues with test, this is usually from either a) trying to use an AI on very low amounts of test, or b) not getting bloodwork done on higher amounts of test and adjusting AI accordingly. Basically, most people are bad at E2 management.
 

SlickNYC

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I think high levels of testosterone relative to other hormones is key to minimizing the negative effects of those other hormones. I think test generally has less negative impact on the organs and I think most people could get all the results they ever wanted just from test. I think it's underrated also, and I think the positive effects of other compounds are overrated (outside of contest prep).

Inability to manage E2 levels properly is probably why most people have issues with test, this is usually from either a) trying to use an AI on very low amounts of test, or b) not getting bloodwork done on higher amounts of test and adjusting AI accordingly. Basically, most people are bad at E2 management.
As Ive gotten, older higher dosages of test have become problematic- blood pressure gets too high, feel like shit, face gets red- but nandro base , primo , bold base haven’t been a problem.
 

5wide

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If you are already at your goal weight and/or size, i have no problem experimenting around with trt and/or no test cycles. But if you are trying to GROW...hell, test is whats going to get you there. I don't know 1 guy above 260 that did the no test route. The difference between 1g test + 400mg of tren VS 200mg test + 700mg tren is ridiculous.
That last statement is so true. For years, I ran modest cycles with no more than 750mg test and had decent results. Then, one day I decided I would just say "fuck it" and started running 1250mg test with a few other compounds that were sanely dosed. I was shocked. Fat melted off, got strong as a mule and (surprisingly) felt just fine. I'm 6'3" and I was 245 at around 7-8%. This was with minimal cardio and an okay diet. Normally, I stayed somewhere north of 12%. I'm certain I could have been able to step on stage at the state level if I had a dialed-in diet and good contest prep for about 3 or 4 weeks without embarrassing myself with a dialed-in diet and good contest prep.

Now, I'm a few years older and don't run high dose test, anymore. However, if I were to run the doses that most people are calling TRT, I might as well save my money and buy a subscription to the Hallmark Channel.
 

madg

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Because people always want to reinvent the wheel
Usually the ones with shit genetic that have tried everything and instead of realizing that there diet is shit instead of the drugs
They keep trying weird dumb shit

Sory but ppl with shit genetics hammer the test cause cant grow on anything esle

So keep adding scale weight for nothing

That why you get “ bodybuilders” weighing 260 with arms smaller than padilla at 180lbs and that why bboy natural look 230 but is 170

This is bodybuilding genetics , to look bigger than what you weight

Test gives scale weight that why 70s and 80s you didnt have bodybuilders weighing 250 with 17 arms

Also no one was blowing kidneys in 70 and 80s ... this came for massive blood sugar from gh+slin+mega carb and huge BP from high test

Just food for thought i respect you greatly pimpman
 

madg

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I will say this cause i really like ProM

You can flame , you can laugh but this is the truth ...

You want and 80s physique? Anadrol and dboll , primo deca tren eq winny

Pick and oral and two injects , keep total at 1000-1500 mg , train the muscle not your joints , eat mod prot , mod carb , low fat and stay lean

You will build the best physique your genetics allow and look like a god

No test , gh , slin needed

Now all will start saying “ bro you cant be iffbb size with this “

Well ... lets see the ifbb size you have build then ...i am waiting

Most WILL NEVER get to that size be it high test low test blah blah

And 4 out of 5 who make it there WILL look like shit

So why not stay lean and healthy , llookinglike a statue and save you and your bank account ?

Much respect and love to all
 

TheOtherOne55

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Sory but ppl with shit genetics hammer the test cause cant grow on anything esle

So keep adding scale weight for nothing

That why you get “ bodybuilders” weighing 260 with arms smaller than padilla at 180lbs and that why bboy natural look 230 but is 170

This is bodybuilding genetics , to look bigger than what you weight

Test gives scale weight that why 70s and 80s you didnt have bodybuilders weighing 250 with 17 arms

Also no one was blowing kidneys in 70 and 80s ... this came for massive blood sugar from gh+slin+mega carb and huge BP from high test

Just food for thought i respect you greatly pimpman

That's your answer? Test gives people small arms? lol Please, figure out something better than that.
Yeah, some BBers have shit genetics. That has nothing to do with test at all. If anything, BBers with shit genetics abuse Tren harder than anyone else. If you're truly elite, Tren isn't needed that much.

And test and kidneys? Where are you getting your info from? Guys are ruining their kidneys from tren and just overall high blood pressure from EVERY CYCLE, not just test. You're making GIANT leaps is logic right now that make very little sense.

You're on the wrong forum is you're trying to debunk the whole idea of "large bodybuilders suck, go back to the 80s."
Thats a great look, but its isn't the ONLY look. And the sooner you realize that other people have different goals than whatever YOU like, the better off you'll be. "Why not stay lean all year?" We've had this discussion literally thousands of times, DANTE juuust was chiming in on a thread about this. YOU can like that look, but chiming and making it sound stupid to GROW, make you look out of touch and old.

Hey, you're allowed to give your opinion. But making it sound like everyone else is stupid and crazy for thinking some way isn't how to do it.
 

SlickNYC

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I will say this cause i really like ProM

You can flame , you can laugh but this is the truth ...

You want and 80s physique? Anadrol and dboll , primo deca tren eq winny

Pick and oral and two injects , keep total at 1000-1500 mg , train the muscle not your joints , eat mod prot , mod carb , low fat and stay lean

You will build the best physique your genetics allow and look like a god

No test , gh , slin needed

Now all will start saying “ bro you cant be iffbb size with this “

Well ... lets see the ifbb size you have build then ...i am waiting

Most WILL NEVER get to that size be it high test low test blah blah

And 4 out of 5 who make it there WILL look like shit

So why not stay lean and healthy , llookinglike a statue and save you and your bank account ?

Much respect
That's your answer? Test gives people small arms? lol Please, figure out something better than that.
Yeah, some BBers have shit genetics. That has nothing to do with test at all. If anything, BBers with shit genetics abuse Tren harder than anyone else. If you're truly elite, Tren isn't needed that much.

And test and kidneys? Where are you getting your info from? Guys are ruining their kidneys from tren and just overall high blood pressure from EVERY CYCLE, not just test. You're making GIANT leaps is logic right now that make very little sense.

You're on the wrong forum is you're trying to debunk the whole idea of "large bodybuilders suck, go back to the 80s."
Thats a great look, but its isn't the ONLY look. And the sooner you realize that other people have different goals than whatever YOU like, the better off you'll be. "Why not stay lean all year?" We've had this discussion literally thousands of times, DANTE juuust was chiming in on a thread about this. YOU can like that look, but chiming and making it sound stupid to GROW, make you look out of touch and old.

Hey, you're allowed to give your opinion. But making it sound like everyone else is stupid and crazy for thinking some way isn't how to do it.
Golden triangle - test, gh, slin
Bodybuilders were indeed using GH in the 80s. Test was ALWAYS a base drug even back then- they just cut it down and some cut it out as they got closer to a show.
 

showstopper83

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I prefer lower dose testosterone in general. If someone wants to run a cycle with low test and high EQ, wouldn't it make sense to supplement estradiol directly to counteract the estrogen lowering effects of EQ?

I haven't tried this. I'm just wondering why the online advice is always to add dbol or more test when the problem is low estradiol.

Because its easier to just eat 10mg of dbol and itsmore fun to pile on aas that you dont necessarily need.
 

m314

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Because its easier to just eat 10mg of dbol and itsmore fun to pile on aas that you dont necessarily need.

That's why I like trest. :) Seriously, though, I'm wondering if this is a way to avoid sexual side effects on high EQ without dbol, trest, or high test.
 

pimpman

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If you are already at your goal weight and/or size, i have no problem experimenting around with trt and/or no test cycles. But if you are trying to GROW...hell, test is whats going to get you there. I don't know 1 guy above 260 that did the no test route. The difference between 1g test + 400mg of tren VS 200mg test + 700mg tren is ridiculous.
Show me a guy running low test that huge....and I dont mean running TRT after he's built his physique by running 1g+ for years.
Exactly 💯
 

pimpman

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Sory but ppl with shit genetics hammer the test cause cant grow on anything esle

So keep adding scale weight for nothing

That why you get “ bodybuilders” weighing 260 with arms smaller than padilla at 180lbs and that why bboy natural look 230 but is 170

This is bodybuilding genetics , to look bigger than what you weight

Test gives scale weight that why 70s and 80s you didnt have bodybuilders weighing 250 with 17 arms

Also no one was blowing kidneys in 70 and 80s ... this came for massive blood sugar from gh+slin+mega carb and huge BP from high test

Just food for thought i respect you greatly pimpman
That's exactly what I'm saying. People with shit genetic blast high shit and eat like shit just to see the scale go up.but who cares if the scale say 300+ if you look like a fat balloon with no definition. So they try dumb this by low this and high that this time and see if I look better. But they won't because they still eating like shit. Instead of concentrating in eating healthy things that builds muscle instead of fat plus train correctly by leaving their ego at the door.I bet they look a lot better weighing a lot less

I guess what I'm try to say is if you have no genetic in this game you have to play smart with everything gear,diet and training properly in order to look somewhat decent
 

hawkmoon

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Have you ever tried progesterone with test? I always thought I was “estrogen sensitive” but after being on progesterone cream for only a week so far it’s looking more and more like my “estrogen sensitivity” was just progesterone deficiency from years of TRT.

Lot of guys drop their AIs and SERMs after going on replacement doses of bio identical progesterone.

Progesterone also converts to Allopregnanolone in the body via 5AR, a potent GABAergic neurosteroid which counteracts the mentioned testosterone irritability.
Can’t say I ever measured my progesterone specifically.
BTW all these sides I mentioned manifested in my early days of use, around 19-21.
I used to get quite watery and some early gyro from 400mg of T. My GP gave me nolvadex which I used at the end of my early “career”. Personally (thankfully) never got measurably irritable from any androgen.
Now, hight test just makes me feel slow, sluggish, and uncomfortable. Lower test and higher anabolics make me feel and perform better.
 

madg

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That's your answer? Test gives people small arms? lol Please, figure out something better than that.
Yeah, some BBers have shit genetics. That has nothing to do with test at all. If anything, BBers with shit genetics abuse Tren harder than anyone else. If you're truly elite, Tren isn't needed that much.

And test and kidneys? Where are you getting your info from? Guys are ruining their kidneys from tren and just overall high blood pressure from EVERY CYCLE, not just test. You're making GIANT leaps is logic right now that make very little sense.

You're on the wrong forum is you're trying to debunk the whole idea of "large bodybuilders suck, go back to the 80s."
Thats a great look, but its isn't the ONLY look. And the sooner you realize that other people have different goals than whatever YOU like, the better off you'll be. "Why not stay lean all year?" We've had this discussion literally thousands of times, DANTE juuust was chiming in on a thread about this. YOU can like that look, but chiming and making it sound stupid to GROW, make you look out of touch and old.

Hey, you're allowed to give your opinion. But making it sound like everyone else is stupid and crazy for thinking some way isn't how to do it.

Test gives scale weight , not small arms
Now when shit genetics and you pound test-slin-gh you force growth but only thing growing is ass and gut
The reason abominations exist at 250,260,270 etc is massive test,gh,slin,overfeeding
All these guys would be beter at 200-220 and looking good not like abominations with huge ass and guy and no arms
Tren of course not needed i never said something about tren , i said anabolics in general

Test and kidneys ? Hahaha why you not ask a nephrologist ?
My brothers nephrologist told me , i can give you his name , best doctor here maybe you know more ?
Test increase BP more than ANYTHING !
Have you done tren without test ? I have ! Guess what ?? No BP spikes


Hahha brother i never said huge bbs suck and all should look like 80s
I have said COUNTLESS TIMES i respect all huge guys today, search my post history i wait ...
I said FOR THE AVERAGE USER IN FORUMS is beter to stay lean and chase 80s physique than be a fat bloated mess that llooks good for a week
And 99,999999 % ppl on forums on high test are a fat watery mess and would cry hard if the dieted to true 6%
Also while bring in this dante ?i am on forums 17 years , i know what i am talking , i have seen countless ppl even here looking like shit cause of high test and overfeeding chasing the “mass “
ALL this guys would be 10000000% more happy and proud of themselfs if they did what i say
Have you noticed how only few ppl post pics ? You know why ? I do ... THEY ARE ASHAMED
when you look good and are happy and proud you just post your pics

Countless ppl pm me saying they WOULD KILL to look like me ... well pounding the test and 100000 cals sire aint the way

I NEVER SAID EVERYONE ELSE IS LAZY OR MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY!!!
i am not english , i speak 4 language
Maybe you can try speak my language and we can see how well you do

I respect you man bit please answer me something ... can you post your pics after you diet this year and also from last year ?
Lets see all this offseason and weighing 300 how much muscle has put on you ?
With all due respect i bet only your ass and waist will have grow

And last but not least ... i never weighted more than 95 kg ... i have take 3 overalls from guys weighing 250+ ... if i didnt wory ppl find my name i would post them and you can check how small i am next to them while weighing 40 lb less

Stop attacking everyone who dont agree with you

This was last post of me on this matter

Ppl can do what they like but i prefer being 60 and looking like nubret than being fat , injured with health issues and needing to show photo of me so ppl believe i really trained at some point in my life

Try to be more civil and not put words in my mouth

And since you want bring dante here ... you can ask Disgusted ( he was post here) if what i say is true about the 80s

Respect
 

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